EVE Information Portal

Game experience is not bias, it is opinion formed from actual play of the game we are discussing, not some findings from a study which I have no doubt will be contradicted by another study somewhere else and is also very generalized (one size absolutely does not fit all in psychology/motivation etc).

Again I'm not assuming anything, I'm relating my experience in various games where progression is a key component of the experience. Many other people here have agreed with this. You on the other hand are assuming that the removal of a core component of a game will instantly make it more fun, increase subs, improve retention, improve NPE, have people forking out tons of cash to fly ship x, y, or z etc etc etc.

If it takes a 5% increase in retention to increase profits by 25-95% (again I bet there's studies that refute this) then what would happen to profits if 25% of the long term players unsub due to their game being gutted? How long do you think CCP could sustain the loss in profits whilst waiting for new player retention to ramp up (assuming it did)?

The SP mechanism works well, it has players thinking about what they want to do in game, guides them in a direction to follow, rewards subs without grinding. It does not stop players from doing what they want, they just have to work towards it through other areas of the game. Would HALO be as much fun if you could just start at the end level with the biggest guns on your back? Would super mario have been fun if you could just drop in the boss level at the end with whatever power ups you could have?

This is simplifying things down but the point is the same. How much fun is there in being handed everything on a plate? Much of the attraction of Eve comes from having to earn things if you want them. That comes from planning, good choices, gameplay and luck. You are proposing the removal of the first two to a large degree. You are also overestimating how much extra fun people will have by being able to simply do anything in game (along with the impact that will have on others who *have* invested a lot of time and effort in getting to that point).

You are also still seemingly ignoring the fact that CCP have outright stated the importance of SP as a core part of the game. This in itself ends any discussion of SP removal which isn't what this thread was t discuss in the first place.

"Motivation" comes from vision, goal setting, and celebrating small successes .

Resistance / Do i have to
Answer / i Choose too.

Resistance / I dont want to do this
Answer / Realign your tasks

Resistance / I can't do this
Answer / Realise that effort creates your rewards.

Am i missing anything here.

Ah, there it is. This underlined claim has no precedent, especially in this conversation. The whole point of established motivation theories is commonality.

25% unsubs of some hundreds of thousands? In all respect, that's a tiny amount. WoW lost 50%, but the trend is a "lack of content". Oh, sweet -- a sandbox game can have unlimited content without restrictions undermining fresh subs and interest.

The implication is still, apparently, that SP doesn't come upon the same reward problems as other extrinsic motivations, which are actually reported as reduced direction and creativity. As with the NPE videos, it's following that Achievements line and having no clue how you got there or no clue what to do next. Maslow's hierarchy would state that the most motivating thing is self-actualization. Yet, how can interested subs show how to be great if both of their skills disallow that?

Halo is the example? Its multiplayer experience sets the experience on a tuned playing field -- same stats, etc. Mario? False equivalence. These aren't sandbox games, nor are they multiplayer. Earning and progression? How is it progression being limited to a tiny window of diversity and unsubbing?

The fun comes from being competitive at everything.. (of interest). If a sub gets a character with 35M SP, what if he'd like to recruit his crew? This very idea should explain exactly how essential freedom is.


Vision and imagination? The skill queue is no inspiration for fantasy. Goal setting? Can't do much more than SP allows.

So after all your baffling with bullshit and blinding with science, it boils down to you want to do everything in game with no input what so ever.

Lol not me bud, now you go crawl back in that corner

Lol not me bud, now you go crawl back in that corner

Just listened to Jeff Raiders latest podcast and Gorski Car was there taking about sp proposal. It gave me a slightly better understanding where he's coming from. He's thinking that overcoming some initial training barriers will allow newcomers to get involved with the 'cool' stuff in eve.

I would like to respectfully disagree. I have interacted with new players ALOT. At the risk of sounding arrogant I'm going to say that I have helped to get dozens if not hundreds of new players realize the beauty of eve and get hooked. Sometimes they were as young as few of days old. Big nullsec alliances want people in specific doctrines because they can't overcome their static bureaucratic nature. This is a problem that needs to be worked out internally by players instead of with a change that is forced on the entirety of eve

I and I'm sure most of the people opposed to this proposal want to help new players. We just don't think pressuring those players into paying money for skills is going to help that and it sends the wrong message. I keep hearing people say what are you worried about, sp doesn't mean **** in eve, its about skillz. Then why are we reinforcing this false belief by giving them an option to buy sp? Personally I don't give a damn if we give new players a bunch of unallocated sp. Do it through non tradable means as a reward for completing certain story arcs. Make it once per account and they should take a certain amount of time to complete to limit its abuse with alts.

This community has many intelligent, creative players and devs. If team size matters gives a good and clear idea of goals they want to achieve we can come up with solutions that everyone can be happy with. The dev blog seems a bit disingenuous and needs clarification for the reason behind this proposal.

Always funny to watch how person punching himself.

I would change your translator Lootit, Your counters are making you look like a bellend.

You're fabricating again. You shouldn't try to force every lock and key.

It's already established that what's really motivating is freedom and the idea of mastery and, say, the depth of inter-relatedness. Undermining that, thus, is negative? How can you say that limitations on creativity (e.g. from fitting skills or ship unlocks or DPS) make subs come play? In fact, there's no reason for such a claim.. Then, what's the draw? Of course, SP is unhelpful for that experience for which subs would ask and for which they would refer and for which they would log on.