These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4361 - 2015-10-22 07:39:06 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
afkalt wrote:
Dynamus Deckerman wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Myevil Gankalt wrote:
This whole idea is just awful.

The main reason I am against it is that it undermines one of the core tenants of EVE: Actions have consequences. Consider myself. I am, and shall always be, an evil gank alt. This life style has consequences. There is a certain group of people who, for whatever reason, do not like me. They even target me in pvp! If I decide to try another life style, I should not be able to burn this alt and roll a nice one which is skilled over night. I realize there is a character bazaar, but that has issues. Any character I buy might very well have been involved in some scam or corporate theft. In short, there are consequences.

I also don't like the idea of somebody buying 10 training alts as a farm to build one main character.

OK. Lets do math. Assume that person have 10m SP. How much it will be cost to transfer it to the new toon? Answer a half SP because you can't extract from character with less than 5m SP. Also extractors need to be paid.


You still don't get it.




No, he doesn't. He really really doesn't.

Probably because he's (and I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here) still sufficiently new he's not been exposed to the lengths eve players will go to in order to get an advantage over others.

I doubt he's experienced people on safaris, experiences corporate spy/sabotage/theft.

Hell I doubt he's set foot out of highsec tbh.

It's not so hard to do math by your own for any amout of SP and figure out that respecing and transfering to yours another toon is not so cheap to do it on regular base.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4362 - 2015-10-22 08:07:32 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Dynamus Deckerman wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Myevil Gankalt wrote:
This whole idea is just awful.

The main reason I am against it is that it undermines one of the core tenants of EVE: Actions have consequences. Consider myself. I am, and shall always be, an evil gank alt. This life style has consequences. There is a certain group of people who, for whatever reason, do not like me. They even target me in pvp! If I decide to try another life style, I should not be able to burn this alt and roll a nice one which is skilled over night. I realize there is a character bazaar, but that has issues. Any character I buy might very well have been involved in some scam or corporate theft. In short, there are consequences.

I also don't like the idea of somebody buying 10 training alts as a farm to build one main character.

OK. Lets do math. Assume that person have 10m SP. How much it will be cost to transfer it to the new toon? Answer a half SP because you can't extract from character with less than 5m SP. Also extractors need to be paid.


You still don't get it.




No, he doesn't. He really really doesn't.

Probably because he's (and I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here) still sufficiently new he's not been exposed to the lengths eve players will go to in order to get an advantage over others.

I doubt he's experienced people on safaris, experiences corporate spy/sabotage/theft.

Hell I doubt he's set foot out of highsec tbh.

It's not so hard to do math by your own for any amout of SP and figure out that respecing and transfering to yours another toon is not so cheap to do it on regular base.


General Lootit your priceless mate, you remind me of along time ago when we used to go roaming for macrominers with suicide alts, You'd bump them - nothing, start a chat with them and you get back a reply like - you drop rocks near boulders on house - We'd all fall about laughing then destroy it for some guy come along in an industrial just like Achmed .... i kill you i kill you all why you do this.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4363 - 2015-10-22 08:22:30 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:

General Lootit your priceless mate, you remind me of along time ago when we used to go roaming for macrominers with suicide alts, You'd bump them - nothing, start a chat with them and you get back a reply like - you drop rocks near boulders on house - We'd all fall about laughing then destroy it for some guy come along in an industrial just like Achmed .... i kill you i kill you all why you do this.

But I'm still doubt that you are a guy. Smile

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4364 - 2015-10-22 08:28:57 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
afkalt wrote:

Hell I doubt he's set foot out of highsec tbh.

And you are still jerky and not thoughtful enough.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#4365 - 2015-10-22 08:33:12 UTC
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
Captain Africa wrote:
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
Skinzee wrote:
Skinzee wrote:
I have a question for ALL people that say this is a bad idea...


--- WHAT EFFECT WOULD IT HAVE ON YOU AS A PILOT IF THIS WOULD ACTUALLY GO LIVE? ---


There is already an option to buy 0-200m SP characters... Character Bazaar - (Thats Pay2Win if you look at it that way)



Would love someone to actually give me a valid answer to this question.

As far as I can see, there is none.



I do... Bitter vets would have more people around them that could fly high end doctrines like they do. Just by roaming off their own SP.



Lemme throw this right back at you ...I had to wait 6 years to get my character trained up to be 145 mil sp do you think it fair that you would be able to achieve that by just buying sp and whalla ? Infact just **** off...**** that im outta here


Thats not possible, CCP is capping the upwards sprint from each package you add in SP. Did you even read the blog?


It is possible, just more expensive.

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#4366 - 2015-10-22 08:34:59 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
i can't make anyone do ****.

if people want to leave, it won't be because i'm not saying "this idea is bad".

and i sure as **** ain't pandering to cry babies who's only answer is "i'mma unsub" - let them.

every time ccp make an announcement, some one says "i'll unsub if you do this". eve hasn't died yet, such threats are hollow and pathetic,


Eve has not died yet, but number of people logged in show that it is going in that direction for sure. And huge drop in them shows that those threats are obviously not hollow and pathetic. Seems they actually do it...

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#4367 - 2015-10-22 08:37:52 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
i'm not gambling anything. i'm just refusing to scream "the sky is falling". and i didn't tell anyone to quit, they whined about that on their own.


If I was CCP and lost ~half of the customers in recent time, I would scream "the sky is falling" and do my best to fix things, not risk even more customers quiting...

And I feel the same form the players perspective, as someone who loves the game does not want it to crumble...

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#4368 - 2015-10-22 08:46:11 UTC
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
Captain Africa wrote:
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
Skinzee wrote:
Skinzee wrote:
I have a question for ALL people that say this is a bad idea...


--- WHAT EFFECT WOULD IT HAVE ON YOU AS A PILOT IF THIS WOULD ACTUALLY GO LIVE? ---


There is already an option to buy 0-200m SP characters... Character Bazaar - (Thats Pay2Win if you look at it that way)



Would love someone to actually give me a valid answer to this question.

As far as I can see, there is none.



I do... Bitter vets would have more people around them that could fly high end doctrines like they do. Just by roaming off their own SP.



Lemme throw this right back at you ...I had to wait 6 years to get my character trained up to be 145 mil sp do you think it fair that you would be able to achieve that by just buying sp and whalla ? Infact just **** off...**** that im outta here


Thats not possible, CCP is capping the upwards sprint from each package you add in SP. Did you even read the blog?

Actually, it is possible. Did you read the blog?

It may cost you a bit to do but it is possible to just keep spending and lvling up. . At least until you reach 80 mil SP, which is what - About 3 years of game time investment today - Achieved with a few plex

Personally having to outlay isk or $ in the hope some new guy wants to buy my unwanted skills is something to be carefully considered.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
The more I think about diminishing returns, the more I'm thinking I won't be a part of this for my characters. Give up 500k SP to get 50k in return - and have to pay for the privilege.
I think my unused SP can just stay where it is - Unused...


- - - - - - - - -
I wonder - The market is a self regulating thing, everyone is out to buy as cheap as they can and sell for the highest possible price.
SP sellers generally won't be in "need" of isk so prices will be regulated by what, when just about everything in Eve is about greed.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#4369 - 2015-10-22 08:50:48 UTC
If you know you would lose 1/4 playerbase but earn 1/4 more than today would you still push it?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4370 - 2015-10-22 08:51:34 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Dynamus Deckerman wrote:

I see only the instant gratifiers left playing this game when this feature hits. Question is will they and the others that follow such crowd outweigh the traditional players that leaves?

Who are "instant gratifiers"? Thats people who griding on SP or people who earned money and paying for our ability to get a free sub?

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4371 - 2015-10-22 09:09:11 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Dynamus Deckerman wrote:

I see only the instant gratifiers left playing this game when this feature hits. Question is will they and the others that follow such crowd outweigh the traditional players that leaves?

Who are "instant gratifiers"? Thats people who griding on SP or people who earned money and paying for our ability to get a free sub?

You only have to see in newb chat when you create a character these days, one of the most asked questions you see fly past amidst the help with fittings or where do i go is - How can i earn enough to get one of those plex and play for free.

Then you wonder why the subs base is on a downturn, Nobody is paying for my free sub because i dont have one. Ive always paid by card for my sub, Again i dont come here to see what i can grind hours and hours of endless monotony for i have fun 95% of the time and pay for it. Maybe thats the problem the people that always want things for free/the easy option have short attention spans, dont see the big picture and quit.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4372 - 2015-10-22 09:21:56 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Dynamus Deckerman wrote:

I see only the instant gratifiers left playing this game when this feature hits. Question is will they and the others that follow such crowd outweigh the traditional players that leaves?

Who are "instant gratifiers"? Thats people who griding on SP or people who earned money and paying for our ability to get a free sub?

You only have to see in newb chat when you create a character these days, one of the most asked questions you see fly past amidst the help with fittings or where do i go is - How can i earn enough to get one of those plex and play for free.

Then you wonder why the subs base is on a downturn, Nobody is paying for my free sub because i dont have one. Ive always paid by card for my sub, Again i dont come here to see what i can grind hours and hours of endless monotony for i have fun 95% of the time and pay for it. Maybe thats the problem the people that always want things for free/the easy option have short attention spans, dont see the big picture and quit.

You forgot that I'm one of them and also was interested in how to grid for PLEX. And I did it.

If you refusing to earn isk than pay for them or you want them for doing nothing?
Levi Belvar wrote:

Again i dont come here to see what i can grind hours and hours

Levi Belvar wrote:

people that always want things for free/the easy option have short attention spans

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4373 - 2015-10-22 09:39:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
General Lootit wrote:
You forgot that I'm one of them and also was interested in how to grid for PLEX. And I did it.

If you refusing to earn isk than pay for them or you want them for doing nothing?


Good for you so you spend half your free month doing what FW / mission running thats so productive of you.

I log on and do whatever the hell i like because at the end of the 30 day period its starts again i dont think crap gotta start getting the money together for a plex again, I earn plenty of isk probably make your eyes water but again ive invested years into what i have, i dont take things for granted and i dont expect things for free - Theres my motivation.

Infact i probably hand out more free things like retreivers and drake / caracals and handouts than you probably even make in a month.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4374 - 2015-10-22 09:45:53 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Dynamus Deckerman wrote:

I see only the instant gratifiers left playing this game when this feature hits. Question is will they and the others that follow such crowd outweigh the traditional players that leaves?

Who are "instant gratifiers"? Thats people who griding on SP or people who earned money and paying for our ability to get a free sub?

You only have to see in newb chat when you create a character these days, one of the most asked questions you see fly past amidst the help with fittings or where do i go is - How can i earn enough to get one of those plex and play for free.

Then you wonder why the subs base is on a downturn, Nobody is paying for my free sub because i dont have one. Ive always paid by card for my sub, Again i dont come here to see what i can grind hours and hours of endless monotony for i have fun 95% of the time and pay for it. Maybe thats the problem the people that always want things for free/the easy option have short attention spans, dont see the big picture and quit.

You forgot that I'm one of them and also was interested in how to grid for PLEX. And I did it.

If you refusing to earn isk than pay for them or you want them for doing nothing?


No-one said it was hard to grind for plex, what people are saying is that doing it as a newbro - for the most part - is utterly soul crushing and has a tendency to burn people out. Probably because the time it takes precludes everything else.

And here we are about to pull the trigger on putting even more pressure on newbros to chase the isk; instead of chasing the fun. Fun is what keeps people playing, not a second space job.

Give newbies a leg up, by all means, I fully supported the recent starting skill changes, for example. A whole revamp of the NPE. Hell give them skills to rock out the door in a fully T2 fit frigate - that'd be ideal.

But this, even setting aside all the hilarious things vets can and will do with it, pushing people into PvE....it's a horrible, horrible idea.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4375 - 2015-10-22 10:14:57 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
afkalt wrote:

No-one said it was hard to grind for plex, what people are saying is that doing it as a newbro - for the most part - is utterly soul crushing and has a tendency to burn people out. Probably because the time it takes precludes everything else.

And here we are about to pull the trigger on putting even more pressure on newbros to chase the isk; instead of chasing the fun. Fun is what keeps people playing, not a second space job.

I didn't said either that griding is hard to do. It's also time consuming but less than waiting the quee and I want to trade my griding time to SP. "Fun" in yours meaning isn't pays for itself but I had some fun while griding by chating people who also doing this.

It's not a pressure - it's an option.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4376 - 2015-10-22 10:23:26 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
afkalt wrote:

No-one said it was hard to grind for plex, what people are saying is that doing it as a newbro - for the most part - is utterly soul crushing and has a tendency to burn people out. Probably because the time it takes precludes everything else.

And here we are about to pull the trigger on putting even more pressure on newbros to chase the isk; instead of chasing the fun. Fun is what keeps people playing, not a second space job.

I didn't said either that griding is hard to do. It's also time consuming but less than waiting the quee and I want to trade my griding time to SP. Fun isn't pays for itself.

It's not a pressure - it's an option.


So by your own admission your prefering the instant gratification mode over working for something, any fool can grind.

You either grind for plex then or you sit station spinning watching your skillpoints go up, You really have truely embraced what eve is all about.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4377 - 2015-10-22 10:30:28 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
afkalt wrote:

No-one said it was hard to grind for plex, what people are saying is that doing it as a newbro - for the most part - is utterly soul crushing and has a tendency to burn people out. Probably because the time it takes precludes everything else.

And here we are about to pull the trigger on putting even more pressure on newbros to chase the isk; instead of chasing the fun. Fun is what keeps people playing, not a second space job.

I didn't said either that griding is hard to do. It's also time consuming but less than waiting the quee and I want to trade my griding time to SP. "Fun" in yours meaning isn't pays for itself but I had some fun while griding by chating people who also doing this.

It's not a pressure - it's an option.



You say on one hand that it is an option, yet earlier you say you feel pressued to catch vets.

You have to pick one and only one, really.


See thing is, whilst you're waiting on teh training queue, you can be playing the game. How fast to fly a gankalyst again? 20 minutes now? Fly with Code, explode stuff, have fun whilst the queue is ticking.

The only thing locking you into a gameplay style until XXXX trains is you. Unless you're a focused super sitter, but if that were the case we would not be having this conversation.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4378 - 2015-10-22 10:34:27 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Levi Belvar wrote:


So by your own admission your prefering the instant gratification mode over working for something, any fool can grind.

Only if working is instant gratification. But it's defenetly not "instant".

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4379 - 2015-10-22 10:53:16 UTC
afkalt wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
afkalt wrote:

No-one said it was hard to grind for plex, what people are saying is that doing it as a newbro - for the most part - is utterly soul crushing and has a tendency to burn people out. Probably because the time it takes precludes everything else.

And here we are about to pull the trigger on putting even more pressure on newbros to chase the isk; instead of chasing the fun. Fun is what keeps people playing, not a second space job.

I didn't said either that griding is hard to do. It's also time consuming but less than waiting the quee and I want to trade my griding time to SP. "Fun" in yours meaning isn't pays for itself but I had some fun while griding by chating people who also doing this.

It's not a pressure - it's an option.



You say on one hand that it is an option, yet earlier you say you feel pressued to catch vets.

Yes I did. But it's one of the reasons. I even don't mind if vets will have benefit from it.

afkalt wrote:

See thing is, whilst you're waiting on teh training queue, you can be playing the game. How fast to fly a gankalyst again? 20 minutes now? Fly with Code, explode stuff, have fun whilst the queue is ticking.

The only thing locking you into a gameplay style until XXXX trains is you. Unless you're a focused super sitter, but if that were the case we would not be having this conversation.

I have plan to do and it's requiring SP. I'm defenetly wont change it when some stranger tell me to do so.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4380 - 2015-10-22 10:53:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:


So by your own admission your prefering the instant gratification mode over working for something, any fool can grind.

Only if working is instant gratification. But it's defenetly not "instant".


If you would of said Grinding to pay for fun i could accept that but not "griding time to SP" - What happens when you start grinding for sp's then are you going to actually pay for your subscription or you hoping to grind now even more for plex and sp's - where does your space job end and your fun start, skillpoints will only make it so much easier as youve so often pointed out .

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”