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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4241 - 2015-10-21 12:38:04 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
So you've got nothing then huh? And if you don't feel pressure to keep up, why are you fighting so hard for a method to do so? You could drive a bus through your arguments.

Anyway, enjoy levelling your raven to level your toon. Enjoy not going on fleets because you have to rat up BS V. I hear that's real good for retention.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4242 - 2015-10-21 12:51:23 UTC
afkalt wrote:
And if you don't feel pressure to keep up, why are you fighting so hard for a method to do so?

In short because I queed up my skills.

Be jerky as you can it always helps.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4243 - 2015-10-21 12:56:32 UTC
So you do feel the need for these? The pressure?

Can you genuinely not see this potential (I venture) probable result being people grinding isk even harder to chase that white whale of "being able to compete"?

We all know where the PvE route takes newbros.....and ask some to pipe up, but they've all left.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4244 - 2015-10-21 13:05:16 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
afkalt wrote:

So you do feel the need for these? The pressure?

I feel that I will have an option to grind some isk to be able to boost my SP what allow me to do what I want without waiting so long.
afkalt wrote:

Can you genuinely not see this potential (I venture) probable result being people grinding isk even harder to chase that white whale of "being able to compete"?

It's their choice if they want to outcompete someone.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4245 - 2015-10-21 13:06:08 UTC
Go watch fanfest videos and check out what happens to newbros who chase PvE.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4246 - 2015-10-21 13:10:39 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Go watch fanfest videos and check out what happens to newbros who chase PvE.

Actully I already posted that link. You are not so thoughtful, are you?

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4247 - 2015-10-21 13:11:20 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


so you're saying CCP should disregard one of the best sources of feedback because it's not run by them?


And in a similar vein why should they disregard this forum where only paying players can post (and I would say the response has been largely negative).
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4248 - 2015-10-21 13:14:28 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Go watch fanfest videos and check out what happens to newbros who chase PvE.

Actully I already posted that link. You are not so thoughtful, are you?


So you've watched it all and understood it.

Understood that people levelling their ravens/chasing PvE have horrible retention.
Understood that you yourself are feeling pressured to buy these packs to "compete" (hello there Moby D)
Understood that you can buy these with isk

Yet somehow not understood that the blindingly obvious extension of that is people ratting to skill up with the end game of them quitting even faster because ratting is now tied to "progression".
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#4249 - 2015-10-21 13:22:13 UTC
afkalt wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Go watch fanfest videos and check out what happens to newbros who chase PvE.

Actully I already posted that link. You are not so thoughtful, are you?


So you've watched it all and understood it.

Understood that people levelling their ravens/chasing PvE have horrible retention.
Understood that you yourself are feeling pressured to buy these packs to "compete" (hello there Moby D)
Understood that you can buy these with isk

Yet somehow not understood that the blindingly obvious extension of that is people ratting to skill up with the end game of them quitting even faster because ratting is now tied to "progression".



It's amazing to me that CCP doesn't realize this potential unintended consequence (or the others we've pointed out). By giving people short cuts, they devalue the experience overall, possibly leading to faster loses of players than they experienced before. EVE isn't just a game about fun, it's a hobby about achievement (and thus pride).

"Leveling your raven" is an achievement (even if a poor one) that at least keeps people around for a bit. "working 2 extra hours at McBurger joint to afford to buy the SP to level the raven to the point where it can do boring lvl 4 missions" is not an achievement lol, it's a recipe for quitting EVE.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4250 - 2015-10-21 13:22:29 UTC
afkalt wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Go watch fanfest videos and check out what happens to newbros who chase PvE.

Actully I already posted that link. You are not so thoughtful, are you?


So you've watched it all and understood it.

Understood that people levelling their ravens/chasing PvE have horrible retention.
Understood that you yourself are feeling pressured to buy these packs to "compete" (hello there Moby D)
Understood that you can buy these with isk

Yet somehow not understood that the blindingly obvious extension of that is people ratting to skill up with the end game of them quitting even faster because ratting is now tied to "progression".



Not to worry they can just buy PLEX to buy the SP instead, now they can just spend RL money instead to 'compete' into a ship that will then be nerfed. Because people will use this to instantly access the current FotM. If this had been available a short while back it truly would have been Ishtars online since everyone would have just bought the skills.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4251 - 2015-10-21 13:25:55 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
...
"Leveling your raven" is an achievement (even if a poor one) that at least keeps people around for a bit. "working 2 extra hours at McBurger joint to afford to buy the SP to level the raven to the point where it can do boring lvl 4 missions" is not an achievement lol, it's a recipe for quitting EVE.


Oh hell...think of the kids we'll be harming by having new players sell more burgers to them. ...
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4252 - 2015-10-21 13:35:43 UTC
If "getting SP is no achievement", then why pretend like SP trading is any worse of an idea than passive training?

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4253 - 2015-10-21 13:39:14 UTC
afkalt wrote:

Understood that people levelling their ravens/chasing PvE have horrible retention.
Understood that you yourself are feeling pressured to buy these packs to "compete" (hello there Moby D)
Understood that you can buy these with isk

Please stop putting words in my mouth.

afkalt wrote:

Yet somehow not understood that the blindingly obvious extension of that is people ratting to skill up with the end game of them quitting even faster because ratting is now tied to "progression".

It's all matter of choisies and person who choose. If people like something let him to do so. Doesn't matter for how long he playing, matter that he like it.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4254 - 2015-10-21 13:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
General Lootit wrote:
afkalt wrote:

Understood that people levelling their ravens/chasing PvE have horrible retention.
Understood that you yourself are feeling pressured to buy these packs to "compete" (hello there Moby D)
Understood that you can buy these with isk

Please stop putting words in my mouth.

afkalt wrote:

Yet somehow not understood that the blindingly obvious extension of that is people ratting to skill up with the end game of them quitting even faster because ratting is now tied to "progression".

It's all matter of choisies and person who choose. If people like something let him to do so. Doesn't matter for how long he playing, matter that he like it.



So you HAVEN'T watched and understood the video YOU linked?

Uh-huh.


I guess we will have to agree to disagree since you seem to think making a change highly likely to increase newbro burnout is a good thing because it suits your selfish requirement of instant gratification.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4255 - 2015-10-21 14:03:13 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
afkalt wrote:

So you HAVEN'T watched and understood the video YOU linked?

Uh-huh.

I can't understand why are you jerking all around.

afkalt wrote:

I guess we will have to agree to disagree since you seem to think making a change highly likely to increase newbro burnout is a good thing because it suits your selfish requirement of instant gratification.

So if you defending yours position does it makes you selfish?

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4256 - 2015-10-21 14:21:11 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
It's all matter of choisies and person who choose. If people like something let him to do so. Doesn't matter for how long he playing, matter that he like it.


Thats so comically funny, Its like the story of the kid who went to the party not stopping for anything just heading for the ice cream and cakes. He ate so much he threw up and had to go before the fun and games started.

Very apt for player retention and burnout Smile

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4257 - 2015-10-21 14:27:17 UTC
afkalt wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
afkalt wrote:

Understood that people levelling their ravens/chasing PvE have horrible retention.
Understood that you yourself are feeling pressured to buy these packs to "compete" (hello there Moby D)
Understood that you can buy these with isk

Please stop putting words in my mouth.

afkalt wrote:

Yet somehow not understood that the blindingly obvious extension of that is people ratting to skill up with the end game of them quitting even faster because ratting is now tied to "progression".

It's all matter of choisies and person who choose. If people like something let him to do so. Doesn't matter for how long he playing, matter that he like it.



So you HAVEN'T watched and understood the video YOU linked?

Uh-huh.


I guess we will have to agree to disagree since you seem to think making a change highly likely to increase newbro burnout is a good thing because it suits your selfish requirement of instant gratification.

You're ascribing burnout to a very specific idea, and there's probably nothing to back that up?

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#4258 - 2015-10-21 14:27:57 UTC
What kind of ice cream, not the wimpy type, one hopes.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4259 - 2015-10-21 14:32:48 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
What kind of ice cream, not the wimpy type, one hopes.


I prefer Mr Whippy, but only with restraint.
Solomanios
Doomheim
#4260 - 2015-10-21 14:34:01 UTC
Did not read all 2000 pages of comments, generally ppl are against it, but I'm just curious how would it work:

I'm near 100M skill points, I would gladly sell some stupid skills that I do not take advantage of.
Probably not buy any SP for this character.

But my alts:

Some have just barely over 5M skill points, so I should sell some skills out to get under 5M to get maximum benefit, right?
When I start applying some possible new skills that I want for them (which is bought SP) will the return ratio change once I exceed 5M or will it stay as it was in time of purchase? This is definitely a easy way to make a hero from zero. Imagine pirate attacking one month old character who actually is +50M SP on PVP and skilled player.

Also this allows to avoid the need of training for your 2 'passive' characters that are on same account with your main character...

Please, if you do this, don't f__k it up.!

My .50ISK - yes and no

Cheers
-Sol