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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#4221 - 2015-10-21 12:02:52 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
"eve is dying because people use other places to discuss the game"

probably doesn't help that unlike reddit, eve-o is blocked at work for a lot of people. no amount of "new layout" will help that. as evidenced by almost every first comment in a reddit thread that links back here says "can some one paste the text so i can read it at work please?"


Please stop twisting out what I have said. Oh wait you are doing it for last 150 pages no matter it was already pointed out.



i haven't twisted anything.

reddit will still be more popular than eve-o due to the very fact that most people simply cannot access it as easily as reddit regardless of layout.


Of course you did. I never said eve is dying because of people using other places to discuss the game. Read my post again. Beside that you twistied every comment possible to twist in previous 200+ pages...


once more - it doesn't matter if eve-o gets a facelift, people will still go to reddit to post and the devs will follow them there as it'll be the place with the most feedback.

this will happen because reddit is more accessible to people than eve-o is. as i pointed out, every time a devblog or thread like this is crossposted to eve the first comments are usually asking for the text body to be pasted in to a comment as they can't follow the link here due to filters and such like.

now, you can discuss the point or carry on crying that i paraphrased you.



It still does not change a fact i stated, that you twisted my words.

I did not even want to go in discussion which one is better or why. I can completely accept that reddit is better in every possible way. BUT, official forums should be the way CCP communicates and discusses with players since guess what, they are official. Or just close this one, move to reddit and say that reddit eve-online section is official forum for that.

I am not crying on that you paraphrased me, I just pointed out (again) what are you doing in the most of your posts :D

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Dave stark
#4222 - 2015-10-21 12:04:55 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
It still does not change a fact i stated, that you twisted my words.

I did not even want to go in discussion which one is better or why. I can completely accept that reddit is better in every possible way. BUT, official forums should be the way CCP communicates and discusses with players since guess what, they are official. Or just close this one, move to reddit and say that reddit eve-online section is official forum for that.

I am not crying on that you paraphrased me, I just pointed out (again) what are you doing in the most of your posts :D


so you're saying CCP should disregard one of the best sources of feedback because it's not run by them?
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4223 - 2015-10-21 12:07:27 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
afkalt wrote:
Rawthorm wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave,

Game as it is now , No skillpoint trading in it.

rent 3 bill

because we protected you against xyz you pay us 3 bill tribute this month also as you losses would of been far greater
There is no skillpoints in this senario so you bank the extra cash, distribute it, buy minerals - There is no instant character progression it doesnt exist.


Game with skillpoint trading

because we protected you against xyz you pay us 5 mill TSP tribute this month also as you losses would of been far greater.

Now times this on how ever many they could use this concept on
Right we have 80 mill is TSP this month in the kittty, we can use this to create a new logi wing in flashjacks crew.


You realize that even now in the scenario you talk about, they could have just gone to the character bazaar and bought a bunch of new logi pilots just the same right? .


Only if they are there. This is a key facet you're all (probably deliberately) missing. There is a finite supply. Furthermore the bazaar cannot react to a balance or meta shift instantly. Toons take time to grow, overall SP gain is tempered by the existing stats limiting how fast it can be grown because the core skills are off map from the ship and weapon skills, for example. If tomorrow suddenly maels were the go-to line ship, there wouldn't be a flood of those perfect pilots on the market overnight, it would take time.

These packs though, allow focused min/maxing to harvest the most SP possible on a single map and dump it elsewhere, they also mean that large blocs could react instantly to a new meta, if they so they choose.

Today, there's absolutely no way possible for me or anyone else to roll up to the bazaar and walk out with 50 sabre pilots tomorrow. Once this goes live, I can spit them out this afternoon, never mind tomorrow.

And don't give me cost, large blocs reimburse caps and supers, if you think they can't and won't spring a couple of hundred billion to hit the ground running on a new meta, well then you must be new here. Further undermining the cost argument is the "newbie tool" fallacy - and if it's not affordable for newbies, what's the goddamned point of all this.

If a newbie can afford it, people like me and others can afford to burn them for funsies.


edit: Oh and Dave, reddit is just an echo chamber for this, there's a serious and dedicated downvote campaign if any dares speak against it.

I'm newbie which will use that. Even if another noob could't afford that by soloing than he might find a corp/allince which will boost him.

Big allinces beating small ones. Any news here?

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#4224 - 2015-10-21 12:08:18 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
It still does not change a fact i stated, that you twisted my words.

I did not even want to go in discussion which one is better or why. I can completely accept that reddit is better in every possible way. BUT, official forums should be the way CCP communicates and discusses with players since guess what, they are official. Or just close this one, move to reddit and say that reddit eve-online section is official forum for that.

I am not crying on that you paraphrased me, I just pointed out (again) what are you doing in the most of your posts :D


so you're saying CCP should disregard one of the best sources of feedback because it's not run by them?


Nope, if you would read my posts I even proposed to close this forum and use reddit as official one.

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4225 - 2015-10-21 12:09:23 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
It still does not change a fact i stated, that you twisted my words.

I did not even want to go in discussion which one is better or why. I can completely accept that reddit is better in every possible way. BUT, official forums should be the way CCP communicates and discusses with players since guess what, they are official. Or just close this one, move to reddit and say that reddit eve-online section is official forum for that.

I am not crying on that you paraphrased me, I just pointed out (again) what are you doing in the most of your posts :D


so you're saying CCP should disregard one of the best sources of feedback because it's not run by them?


I think they need to be reaaaaaaally careful they don't just follow the popular voice.

Billions of people use McDonalds - doesn't make it smart.


There is often decent chat there, but putting too much emphasis on it is dangerous. The popular decision is not always the right one.
Dave stark
#4226 - 2015-10-21 12:11:04 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
It still does not change a fact i stated, that you twisted my words.

I did not even want to go in discussion which one is better or why. I can completely accept that reddit is better in every possible way. BUT, official forums should be the way CCP communicates and discusses with players since guess what, they are official. Or just close this one, move to reddit and say that reddit eve-online section is official forum for that.

I am not crying on that you paraphrased me, I just pointed out (again) what are you doing in the most of your posts :D


so you're saying CCP should disregard one of the best sources of feedback because it's not run by them?


I think they need to be reaaaaaaally careful they don't just follow the popular voice.

Billions of people use McDonalds - doesn't make it smart.


There is often decent chat there, but putting too much emphasis on it is dangerous. The popular decision is not always the right one.


which is why ccp take feedback from both reddit, here, people's blogs, the csm, the new focus groups, etc. there's very little more CCP could do to be "more inclusive" with regards to feedback.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4227 - 2015-10-21 12:13:19 UTC
I like many others here i suspect are in a situation (unique or otherwise) where i have 8 account's maybe more not all subbed at the moment, i have a huge pool of skillpoints i could liquidate to take full advantage of this scheduled change of mechanics. So it doesnt affect me either way it goes sort of a win / win situation.

I do not want the TSP way for players to trade as i see there being so many ways for it to be abused and it not helping to attract a new client base in anyway. Where as if we have to accept pay2win sorry progress into the game then if it is bought in as a non trade item sold to a player by CCP to use which would benefit the new as well as the existing client base,not effecting the ecomony bar stimulating it more people doing more things with more ships.

So why are the For's wanting the way it could be abused more, than the altruistic way of helping the whole with CCP marketing them for a set fee ??

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#4228 - 2015-10-21 12:13:52 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
It still does not change a fact i stated, that you twisted my words.

I did not even want to go in discussion which one is better or why. I can completely accept that reddit is better in every possible way. BUT, official forums should be the way CCP communicates and discusses with players since guess what, they are official. Or just close this one, move to reddit and say that reddit eve-online section is official forum for that.

I am not crying on that you paraphrased me, I just pointed out (again) what are you doing in the most of your posts :D


so you're saying CCP should disregard one of the best sources of feedback because it's not run by them?


I think they need to be reaaaaaaally careful they don't just follow the popular voice.

Billions of people use McDonalds - doesn't make it smart.


There is often decent chat there, but putting too much emphasis on it is dangerous. The popular decision is not always the right one.


which is why ccp take feedback from both reddit, here, people's blogs, the csm, the new focus groups, etc. there's very little more CCP could do to be "more inclusive" with regards to feedback.


If i understood correctly, ccp communicates with people there? I do not read reddit so I do not know. If that was not correct then find, no problem. If it is true then I see a problem there.

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4229 - 2015-10-21 12:15:23 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Rawthorm wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave,

Game as it is now , No skillpoint trading in it.

rent 3 bill

because we protected you against xyz you pay us 3 bill tribute this month also as you losses would of been far greater
There is no skillpoints in this senario so you bank the extra cash, distribute it, buy minerals - There is no instant character progression it doesnt exist.


Game with skillpoint trading

because we protected you against xyz you pay us 5 mill TSP tribute this month also as you losses would of been far greater.

Now times this on how ever many they could use this concept on
Right we have 80 mill is TSP this month in the kittty, we can use this to create a new logi wing in flashjacks crew.


You realize that even now in the scenario you talk about, they could have just gone to the character bazaar and bought a bunch of new logi pilots just the same right? .


Only if they are there. This is a key facet you're all (probably deliberately) missing. There is a finite supply. Furthermore the bazaar cannot react to a balance or meta shift instantly. Toons take time to grow, overall SP gain is tempered by the existing stats limiting how fast it can be grown because the core skills are off map from the ship and weapon skills, for example. If tomorrow suddenly maels were the go-to line ship, there wouldn't be a flood of those perfect pilots on the market overnight, it would take time.

These packs though, allow focused min/maxing to harvest the most SP possible on a single map and dump it elsewhere, they also mean that large blocs could react instantly to a new meta, if they so they choose.

Today, there's absolutely no way possible for me or anyone else to roll up to the bazaar and walk out with 50 sabre pilots tomorrow. Once this goes live, I can spit them out this afternoon, never mind tomorrow.

And don't give me cost, large blocs reimburse caps and supers, if you think they can't and won't spring a couple of hundred billion to hit the ground running on a new meta, well then you must be new here. Further undermining the cost argument is the "newbie tool" fallacy - and if it's not affordable for newbies, what's the goddamned point of all this.

If a newbie can afford it, people like me and others can afford to burn them for funsies.


edit: Oh and Dave, reddit is just an echo chamber for this, there's a serious and dedicated downvote campaign if any dares speak against it.

I'm newbie which will use that. Even if another noob could't afford that by soloing than he might find a corp/allince which will boost him.

Big allinces beating small ones. Any news here?



So in the interests of giving you something, which you arguably do not need and would be best served with a different mechanism we:

sell the soul of eve
cement large blocs further
introduce a pay/grind to bypass mechanics for those rich enough

Yeah, that's a great trade. Fantastic.


Sure, I'm confident some of you newbies think this is so good it's literally the second coming - but I assure you it is nothing of the sort.

You're going to feel pressure to buy packs to match meta shifts, you think people are pissed now when a ship they've skilled into is nerfed? Wait until they bought their way into it Lol, you're going to be competing with vets who can and will spew out alts for a dedicated purpose overnight. They're going to slap you up and down new eden no different to before, probably worse.

Still, so long as it speeds up you getting mining barge V to "compete", right?
Dave stark
#4230 - 2015-10-21 12:16:26 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
If i understood correctly, ccp communicates with people there? I do not read reddit so I do not know. If that was not correct then find, no problem. If it is true then I see a problem there.


they do indeed. yesterday i had CCP falcon post "thanks! :D" when i said that "team murder services" had the best team name i've seen so far.

i'm guessing he picked that name.

ccp communicate with everyone, everywhere.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4231 - 2015-10-21 12:16:34 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
It still does not change a fact i stated, that you twisted my words.

I did not even want to go in discussion which one is better or why. I can completely accept that reddit is better in every possible way. BUT, official forums should be the way CCP communicates and discusses with players since guess what, they are official. Or just close this one, move to reddit and say that reddit eve-online section is official forum for that.

I am not crying on that you paraphrased me, I just pointed out (again) what are you doing in the most of your posts :D


so you're saying CCP should disregard one of the best sources of feedback because it's not run by them?


I think they need to be reaaaaaaally careful they don't just follow the popular voice.

Billions of people use McDonalds - doesn't make it smart.


There is often decent chat there, but putting too much emphasis on it is dangerous. The popular decision is not always the right one.

Agree. They should do what they already introduced =)

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Rawthorm
The Establishment
#4232 - 2015-10-21 12:16:56 UTC
afkalt wrote:

Only if they are there. This is a key facet you're all (probably deliberately) missing. There is a finite supply. Furthermore the bazaar cannot react to a balance or meta shift instantly. Toons take time to grow, overall SP gain is tempered by the existing stats limiting how fast it can be grown because the core skills are off map from the ship and weapon skills, for example. If tomorrow suddenly maels were the go-to line ship, there wouldn't be a flood of those perfect pilots on the market overnight, it would take time.

These packs though, allow focused min/maxing to harvest the most SP possible on a single map and dump it elsewhere, they also mean that large blocs could react instantly to a new meta, if they so they choose.

Today, there's absolutely no way possible for me or anyone else to roll up to the bazaar and walk out with 50 sabre pilots tomorrow. Once this goes live, I can spit them out this afternoon, never mind tomorrow.

And don't give me cost, large blocs reimburse caps and supers, if you think they can't and won't spring a couple of hundred billion to hit the ground running on a new meta, well then you must be new here. Further undermining the cost argument is the "newbie tool" fallacy - and if it's not affordable for newbies, what's the goddamned point of all this.

If a newbie can afford it, people like me and others can afford to burn them for funsies.


edit: Oh and Dave, reddit is just an echo chamber for this, there's a serious and dedicated downvote campaign if any dares speak against it.


I'm not deliberately missing anything. SP Injections will also be finite in supply. You don't whip out the credit cad and blam here's 500k SP. That SP still has to come from somewhere. Even with this new mechanism the SP faucet of time will continue to drip, except now we also have an extra SP sink to go alongside T3 losses.

I agree that the bazaar isn't as instantaneous as injections will be, but in all my years of playing I've never once had to wait more than a day or two to find the character I wanted. I'd also like to bring up that I strongly doubt alliances will suddenly fund skill injection for people on any meaningful scale. If they were willing to do this, we'd already have seen alliances bulk buying characters for their members. If I'm wrong on this then please let me know where I need to go sign up because I'd love some free characters.

As for accessibility for new players, its the same for anything in game. Nothing is gonna change that front.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4233 - 2015-10-21 12:17:43 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
It still does not change a fact i stated, that you twisted my words.

I did not even want to go in discussion which one is better or why. I can completely accept that reddit is better in every possible way. BUT, official forums should be the way CCP communicates and discusses with players since guess what, they are official. Or just close this one, move to reddit and say that reddit eve-online section is official forum for that.

I am not crying on that you paraphrased me, I just pointed out (again) what are you doing in the most of your posts :D


so you're saying CCP should disregard one of the best sources of feedback because it's not run by them?


I think they need to be reaaaaaaally careful they don't just follow the popular voice.

Billions of people use McDonalds - doesn't make it smart.


There is often decent chat there, but putting too much emphasis on it is dangerous. The popular decision is not always the right one.


which is why ccp take feedback from both reddit, here, people's blogs, the csm, the new focus groups, etc. there's very little more CCP could do to be "more inclusive" with regards to feedback.



I know, but they DO engage with reddit more than here and if you frequent FANDI, you'll know that the recent method there has been

"Here are some balance changes, let us know what you think! * "



*"We don't give a ****, they're going in anyway, bye!!!"
Malou Hashur
Enterprise Holdings
#4234 - 2015-10-21 12:18:50 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
Mag's wrote:
CCP Terminus wrote:

Which is why we're taking extra care with this feature. In this case the dev blog came out before any implementation.

Ahh so a PR exercise, but it's still a done deal?

Nice.

Daniela Doran wrote:
Yes I also really like to know if this is a done deal? The $144.00 usd I'm putting into Eve every month hinges on this decision.


If it was a done deal we'd have put the dev blog out when it was going to be shipped. The whole point of the dev blog is to gather feedback and assess.



Wrong....

You are releasing this blog to give the impression that there is any chance at all of this disaster being stopped.

Everyone here knows that once a blog like this is issued, the "feature" will be implemented regardless. You may change some meaningless aspect to give the impression that you are listening but in reality, it is a "done deal".

CCP Philosophy ==>>

  1. If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it and break something else.

  2. Ignore all Forum comments that raise issues and concerns about our "features", and bring said "features" in anyway.
Dave stark
#4235 - 2015-10-21 12:23:19 UTC
afkalt wrote:
I know, but they DO engage with reddit more than here and if you frequent FANDI, you'll know that the recent method there has been

"Here are some balance changes, let us know what you think! * "



*"We don't give a ****, they're going in anyway, bye!!!"


again, is that because many people simply can't post here due to filters and such?

also, them saying "what do you think?" as a rhetorical doesn't really matter which forum is used more.
it's not like CCP take things to reddit first. reddit always have to get their information second hand from eve-o... they just have a bot that instantly links new stuff!
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4236 - 2015-10-21 12:23:40 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Rawthorm wrote:
afkalt wrote:

Only if they are there. This is a key facet you're all (probably deliberately) missing. There is a finite supply. Furthermore the bazaar cannot react to a balance or meta shift instantly. Toons take time to grow, overall SP gain is tempered by the existing stats limiting how fast it can be grown because the core skills are off map from the ship and weapon skills, for example. If tomorrow suddenly maels were the go-to line ship, there wouldn't be a flood of those perfect pilots on the market overnight, it would take time.

These packs though, allow focused min/maxing to harvest the most SP possible on a single map and dump it elsewhere, they also mean that large blocs could react instantly to a new meta, if they so they choose.

Today, there's absolutely no way possible for me or anyone else to roll up to the bazaar and walk out with 50 sabre pilots tomorrow. Once this goes live, I can spit them out this afternoon, never mind tomorrow.

And don't give me cost, large blocs reimburse caps and supers, if you think they can't and won't spring a couple of hundred billion to hit the ground running on a new meta, well then you must be new here. Further undermining the cost argument is the "newbie tool" fallacy - and if it's not affordable for newbies, what's the goddamned point of all this.

If a newbie can afford it, people like me and others can afford to burn them for funsies.


edit: Oh and Dave, reddit is just an echo chamber for this, there's a serious and dedicated downvote campaign if any dares speak against it.


I'm not deliberately missing anything. SP Injections will also be finite in supply. You don't whip out the credit cad and blam here's 500k SP. That SP still has to come from somewhere. Even with this new mechanism the SP faucet of time will continue to drip, except now we also have an extra SP sink to go alongside T3 losses. .


No, they won't be. People will create farms expressly to sell SPs. They already do it for the bazaar, you thik they'll not shift to this meta overnight? Hah, if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

If you can't see how that's going to flood the market more than any bazaar ever could there is no helping you. You're going from pre-grown characters designed for a purpose to unallocated SP purchase. It's bonkers.

Here's the thing - If I create three farming accounts, with this proposal I can have an off grid link toon skilled approx 2.4x as fast as I could just doing it the old fashioned way. There will be a lot of such farms. There is literally no way the market will lack supply and the best part of it all is it is generic supply. One size fits all, doesn't matter what the meta is. No delays on firing up new characters using skills that didnt even exist yesterday (when new ships/skills are added).


And I won't whip out the credit card, what I'll do is whip out the dread and blap me some sleepers. You know, that luxury a newbie doesn't have?


Also, I'd love LOVE someone to direct me to the sea of posts where we wanted a SKILL POINT sink. Hell, has there even been one in the last decade?
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4237 - 2015-10-21 12:25:58 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
afkalt wrote:
I know, but they DO engage with reddit more than here and if you frequent FANDI, you'll know that the recent method there has been

"Here are some balance changes, let us know what you think! * "



*"We don't give a ****, they're going in anyway, bye!!!"


again, is that because many people simply can't post here due to filters and such?

also, them saying "what do you think?" as a rhetorical doesn't really matter which forum is used more.
it's not like CCP take things to reddit first. reddit always have to get their information second hand from eve-o... they just have a bot that instantly links new stuff!


I meant the devs.

And there have been examples of data being confirmed by CSM members before the balance team post recently....take of that what you will.
Dave stark
#4238 - 2015-10-21 12:30:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
afkalt wrote:
No, they won't be. People will create farms expressly to sell SPs. They already do it for the bazaar, you thik they'll not shift to this meta overnight? Hah, if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.

If you can't see how that's going to flood the market more than any bazaar ever could there is no helping you. You're going from pre-grown characters designed for a purpose to unallocated SP purchase. It's bonkers.

Here's the thing - If I create three farming accounts, with this proposal I can have an off grid link toon skilled approx 2.4x as fast as I could just doing it the old fashioned way. There will be a lot of such farms. There is literally no way the market will lack supply and the best part of it all is it is generic supply. One size fits all, doesn't matter what the meta is. No delays on firing up new characters using skills that didnt even exist yesterday (when new ships/skills are added).


And I won't whip out the credit card, what I'll do is whip out the dread and blap me some sleepers. You know, that luxury a newbie doesn't have?


Also, I'd love LOVE someone to direct me to the sea of posts where we wanted a SKILL POINT sink. Hell, has there even been one in the last decade?


you're completely correct. the barrier to entry to selling SP is literally nothing - with the power of two setting up a skill farm is free. absolutely free. edit: well, aside from your 2 +5 implants and a couple of skillbooks.

yes there have been two SP sinks in eve, only one remains. SP loss on clone destruction, and t3 subsystem loss. only the t3 subsystem loss remains. unless you mean posts asking for them - **** knows. but we're going to be flooded with SP anyway since there are no meaningful sinks. either the market gets flooded with SP packets, or the bazaar gets flooded with ever growing characters.

ever growing characters get ever more expensive, surely that's an even bigger barrier to new players than 325m for a skill packet?
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4239 - 2015-10-21 12:34:37 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
So maybe we just accept that a newbie is going to be behind a vet in terms of versatility of ship selection but can still quickly compete in a role by specializing in it.

It's almost like that's been the whole idea forever, but people can't seem to grasp it.

You wouldn't believe the amount of people I know who are years old, years - but don't have like... AF V or HAC V. They could be outstripped by a "newbie" training those skills over the course of a month. But they can't compete, don't you know. It's IMPOSSIBRUUUUU to even conceive such a notion.

So, instead, we just bugger Eve. Fantastic Smile



And the best part is you're going to push people into PvE even MORE in order to get isk to "progress" and "compete". /slow_clap
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4240 - 2015-10-21 12:36:00 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
afkalt wrote:

which you arguably do not need ... You're going to feel pressure to buy packs to match meta shifts

Let me decide what I need and what I feel.
afkalt wrote:

sell the soul of eve ... literally the second coming

More catchwords please.
afkalt wrote:

introduce a pay/grind to bypass mechanics for those rich enough

For those who actually playing.
afkalt wrote:

you're going to be competing with vets who can and will spew out alts for a dedicated purpose overnight. They're going to slap you up and down new eden no different to before, probably worse.

Are you forgot that EVE is sandbox and I'm already doing it?

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts