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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#3981 - 2015-10-20 10:17:52 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
tl;dr pay for 3 months game time, get 6 months. 3 of those months are free.

It's not avaiable anymore, can't find it on account manager.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Vahligmarr
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#3982 - 2015-10-20 10:19:28 UTC
This makes the whole idea even more terrifying..... no matter what you call it....it smells like PtoW, and this message will be spread.....
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3983 - 2015-10-20 10:22:12 UTC
Congrats everyone with hitting 200 page of feedback thread
Devs must be happy Big smile

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Dave Stark
#3984 - 2015-10-20 10:26:26 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
if supply and demand make SP packets cost more than production costs you can bypass the market entirely and create your own with SP farms of which the barrier to entry is pretty much just "create a new account".

And setting up a SP farm requires capital investment and time. If a big alliance buys out all the SP packets for instance then price will spike until demand can catch up. It is what happens in the eve markets all the time already.


by setting up an SP farm takes, as i said, a little over two months probably three. with power of 2 getting to the point where that farm is functional is essentially "free" if i have my prices/duration on power of 2 correct (been a while since i made a new alt).

buying out all the sp packets is irrelevant - you're bypassing the market by setting up your own farm anyway.

you're acting like large alliances are intentionally going to try and not get paid and destroy their own rental empires - which in itself is illogical as all hell.


You somehow think that goons et al won't work out the best level at which to charge people whilst having (now instantly perfect) market alts hoover up all SP packs in the hubs with the trillions they get from moons? They would be stupid not to.

They can afford to screw over the hisec (i.e. newbs) markets whilst giving the damn things away for free to alliance members. They already reimburse expensive ships, now they will be able to simply bring all alliance members up to perfect skills for any doctrine they choose in an instant. Oh, they'll have SP SRP too for those flying T3's. The hold of the existing alliances just gets tighter with this.


they can charge any price they want - but ANYONE can undercut them if they sell above cost price. while goon's pockets are deep they are not infinite.

i'll quote laz telraven from the meta show on 30/09/15 "100m sp is low" - i have lower than 100m SP and perfect mining skills - yet i can still fit in and fly any nullsec subcap doctrine i want. do you really think anyone but new players and poor people need these skill packets?
Dave Stark
#3985 - 2015-10-20 10:27:45 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
tl;dr pay for 3 months game time, get 6 months. 3 of those months are free.

It's not avaiable anymore, can't find it on account manager.


it's something they offer for a short time but it always comes back on. both my alts, made at separate times, were power of 2 alts.

it's not a permanent thing but when ti comes back you can take advantage of it. besides, it pays for itself. it costs you 3 plex, and you'll get 3 plex worth of SP to sell at the end. even if you never use it after setting it up you've always got it and it hasn't cost you a thing.
Delegate
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3986 - 2015-10-20 10:32:18 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
Speaking of which, there's been quite a few questions as to why the feature is being developed? What players are the target for this feature? I think it's fairly clearly described in the dev blog here:

"By putting more control of your characters in your hands we hope to improve the game for everyone. Whether you’re an older player who would rather have ISK than those mining skills you don’t use any more, a clever new player looking to invest your fortune into your character, a Corp leader trying to move everyone into a new doctrine or someone like me who just realized that they would rather fly Armageddon’s than Stilettos, this feature has you covered. This all fits nicely to our overall game design philosophy of giving you control over your experience through cooperation and competition with each other."


Unfortunately it's not clearly described. These are some very broad philosophical arguments that one could used to support... well, a whole bunch of changes. I am fairly certain you did not come to decision to design the SP market lightly. There must be specific issues with the game that you want to address, and reasons why you believe SP market would be a good tool to do so.
With the change of this magnitude, please be transparent with your player base. Ask for whatever permissions you need, and the tell us: why?
sixteen 64
1664.
#3987 - 2015-10-20 10:33:43 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Congrats everyone with hitting 200 page of feedback thread
Devs must be happy Big smile


Except 100 pages is this Dave guy, repeating himself over and over Shocked

Anyways, I think we should just have a old fashioned vote, CCP have 23 likes, and this Ripard guy has 94

That means we win right CCP?!
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3988 - 2015-10-20 10:35:47 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
...

they can charge any price they want - but ANYONE can undercut them if they sell above cost price. while goon's pockets are deep they are not infinite.

...


They don't have to be infinite, they simply buy up packets that undercut them and then sell them at the price they actually want to sell them at. They make more money than it costs to buy the packets. Infinite resources are not required, just basic marketing ability which I'm pretty sure they are way way above.
Dave Stark
#3989 - 2015-10-20 10:36:18 UTC
sixteen 64 wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Congrats everyone with hitting 200 page of feedback thread
Devs must be happy Big smile


Except 100 pages is this Dave guy, repeating himself over and over Shocked

Anyways, I think we should just have a old fashioned vote, CCP have 23 likes, and this Ripard guy has 94

That means we win right CCP?!


elise has over 500 on reddit last i checked and 3 of those gold star things.

brb starting an SP farm.

as you can see from the last few pages - a discussion is taking place. if you have an issue with me being the one presenting a counterpoint to every point made then *shrug* that's on you. the ISDs have been actively removing any rule breaking posts so what's left is all relevant and pertinent to the discussion.
sixteen 64
1664.
#3990 - 2015-10-20 10:39:10 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
sixteen 64 wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Congrats everyone with hitting 200 page of feedback thread
Devs must be happy Big smile


Except 100 pages is this Dave guy, repeating himself over and over Shocked

Anyways, I think we should just have a old fashioned vote, CCP have 23 likes, and this Ripard guy has 94

That means we win right CCP?!


elise has over 500 on reddit last i checked and 3 of those gold star things.

brb starting an SP farm.

as you can see from the last few pages - a discussion is taking place. if you have an issue with me being the one presenting a counterpoint to every point made then *shrug* that's on you. the ISDs have been actively removing any rule breaking posts so what's left is all relevant and pertinent to the discussion.


Oh, are you racing him?!
Dave Stark
#3991 - 2015-10-20 10:44:02 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
...

they can charge any price they want - but ANYONE can undercut them if they sell above cost price. while goon's pockets are deep they are not infinite.

...


They don't have to be infinite, they simply buy up packets that undercut them and then sell them at the price they actually want to sell them at. They make more money than it costs to buy the packets. Infinite resources are not required, just basic marketing ability which I'm pretty sure they are way way above.


to be honest, without knowing actual numbers there's no way to know if this is valid or not.

however they'd have to purchase every single packet. every single one, as every single packet will undercut them if they try and sell above cost price.
Dave Stark
#3992 - 2015-10-20 10:44:51 UTC
sixteen 64 wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
sixteen 64 wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Congrats everyone with hitting 200 page of feedback thread
Devs must be happy Big smile


Except 100 pages is this Dave guy, repeating himself over and over Shocked

Anyways, I think we should just have a old fashioned vote, CCP have 23 likes, and this Ripard guy has 94

That means we win right CCP?!


elise has over 500 on reddit last i checked and 3 of those gold star things.

brb starting an SP farm.

as you can see from the last few pages - a discussion is taking place. if you have an issue with me being the one presenting a counterpoint to every point made then *shrug* that's on you. the ISDs have been actively removing any rule breaking posts so what's left is all relevant and pertinent to the discussion.


Oh, are you racing him?!


no, i'm pointing out if we're going by popular vote i better hurry up making that SP farm. this train has no brakes.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3993 - 2015-10-20 10:46:36 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
...

they can charge any price they want - but ANYONE can undercut them if they sell above cost price. while goon's pockets are deep they are not infinite.

...


They don't have to be infinite, they simply buy up packets that undercut them and then sell them at the price they actually want to sell them at. They make more money than it costs to buy the packets. Infinite resources are not required, just basic marketing ability which I'm pretty sure they are way way above.


to be honest, without knowing actual numbers there's no way to know if this is valid or not.

however they'd have to purchase every single packet. every single one, as every single packet will undercut them if they try and sell above cost price.


Not necessarily, just enough to control the market. Besides you just described how groups perform market warfare right now so why would something as valuable as SP be any different? In fact they may well drop other areas of interest if they had to just to make sure they control something so fundamental to peoples abilities as a pilot. Again it would be stupid not to.
sixteen 64
1664.
#3994 - 2015-10-20 10:51:18 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
sixteen 64 wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
sixteen 64 wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Congrats everyone with hitting 200 page of feedback thread
Devs must be happy Big smile


Except 100 pages is this Dave guy, repeating himself over and over Shocked

Anyways, I think we should just have a old fashioned vote, CCP have 23 likes, and this Ripard guy has 94

That means we win right CCP?!


elise has over 500 on reddit last i checked and 3 of those gold star things.

brb starting an SP farm.

as you can see from the last few pages - a discussion is taking place. if you have an issue with me being the one presenting a counterpoint to every point made then *shrug* that's on you. the ISDs have been actively removing any rule breaking posts so what's left is all relevant and pertinent to the discussion.


Oh, are you racing him?!


no, i'm pointing out if we're going by popular vote i better hurry up making that SP farm. this train has no brakes.


Oh, I see, this elise guy has 500 likes! and not 500 posts as I thought you meant, damn and 3 gold stars...Shocked

New rule, Likes only count from the official forums where only subbed guys & girls can post!



Dave Stark
#3995 - 2015-10-20 10:52:26 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
...

they can charge any price they want - but ANYONE can undercut them if they sell above cost price. while goon's pockets are deep they are not infinite.

...


They don't have to be infinite, they simply buy up packets that undercut them and then sell them at the price they actually want to sell them at. They make more money than it costs to buy the packets. Infinite resources are not required, just basic marketing ability which I'm pretty sure they are way way above.


to be honest, without knowing actual numbers there's no way to know if this is valid or not.

however they'd have to purchase every single packet. every single one, as every single packet will undercut them if they try and sell above cost price.


Not necessarily, just enough to control the market. Besides you just described how groups perform market warfare right now so why would something as valuable as SP be any different? In fact they may well drop other areas of interest if they had to just to make sure they control something so fundamental to peoples abilities as a pilot. Again it would be stupid not to.


because supply can be controlled in other markets, i guess is why it'd be different.
anyone can start as many farms as they want, for no cost if power of 2 is running.

if goons are going to buy up any packet worth more than cost price then everyone's just going to go and suck on that teat. if goons are just going to start handing out isk like that, then i'll jump on that crazy train.
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#3996 - 2015-10-20 10:53:36 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
brb starting an SP farm.


I thought you said you weren't really that interested in it, and now you're saying you want it for personal profits? *gasp*



Who knew.
Dave Stark
#3997 - 2015-10-20 10:53:41 UTC
sixteen 64 wrote:
Oh, I see, this elise guy has 500 likes! and not 500 posts as I thought you meant, damn and 3 gold stars...Shocked

New rule, Likes only count from the official forums where only subbed guys & girls can post!






if goons can get multiple people on to the CSM by telling people who to vote for (all your own fault for not voting, people), i sincerely doubt outvoting ripard '90 likes' teg will be difficult.
Dave Stark
#3998 - 2015-10-20 10:54:36 UTC
Tiberius Heth wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
brb starting an SP farm.


I thought you said you weren't really that interested in it, and now you're saying you want it for personal profits? *gasp*



Who knew.


if i wanted to sell SP for isk, i can already do it. this idea doesn't enable that.

who knew? (oh right, everyone knew)
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3999 - 2015-10-20 11:02:43 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
sixteen 64 wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Congrats everyone with hitting 200 page of feedback thread
Devs must be happy Big smile


Except 100 pages is this Dave guy, repeating himself over and over Shocked

Anyways, I think we should just have a old fashioned vote, CCP have 23 likes, and this Ripard guy has 94

That means we win right CCP?!


elise has over 500 on reddit last i checked and 3 of those gold star things.

brb starting an SP farm.

as you can see from the last few pages - a discussion is taking place. if you have an issue with me being the one presenting a counterpoint to every point made then *shrug* that's on you. the ISDs have been actively removing any rule breaking posts so what's left is all relevant and pertinent to the discussion.


you never gave a reply to my question to which i was awaiting a response to:

Anything thats put on the bazaar whether its an old toon or a fresh tengu pilot that has been just trained in station and nothing else has to have its name listed on the bazaar for selling, you then watch when its sold, what corp it joins, where its located.

Thats all gone now, instaspawn toons are an invisible entity.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#4000 - 2015-10-20 11:03:49 UTC
Any decision CCP? It's nice talking to Dave but I think it's time to show us what's your opinion about it. Another 200 pages won't make any difference here.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville