Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I have never encounter with this kind of behavior its awfull what you are refering here. Nobody would say his friend to go get skill pack or gtfo. Also we already have character bazaar. So if people would say something like you refers, why cant say it now "go buy a new character" ?


@Keras Authion

It removes the point of having skills to begin with.

There isnt any point of having the skills begin with already. You just aim on what you want to fly then start leveling those required skills. Nothing complex. So people will buy those packs and inject them instantly and instead of waiting months of training they will have those skills only faster. Nothing will be changed


It removes the point of having attributes.

Attributes are also pointless, should be removed from game already. But there is a point after new change. Because not everybody is gonna buy 200 mil sp worth of packs. They will still need to level up new skills they want, so attributes definitely will keep helping.

It removes attribute implants from the game.

read above. same thing.

It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups.
What do you mean exaclty by "removes variety". Whats cookie-cutter setups actually ?


It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character.

How does it removes your history of your character? You mean flying deimos instead of thorax would destroy player character and history ? Or you mean being able to fly a ship that already thousands of players fly is not unique?


It removes planning and choice and consequences.

What consequences are we talking about. Are you playing Eve? i am really confused by your poor arguments which isnt related to game.
Nobody have to plan for months to start having fun. This is a bad mechanic. Guess what? Thats what CCP trying to fix :)


It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas.
There wil be still progression and achivement if you still want. Nobody forces you to buy those packs. If you want years of training go ahead. We already have character bazaar. Guess what? you can just buy a character who already achieved all those thing you mentioned.

It kills character trading.
Its not gonna kill anything. Characters will be keep sold in character because packs will be more expansive as a Sp/Isk wise.

It massively boosts older characters over new ones
Nobody god damn care other old players. I dont care if some else will be able to fly all races ship as long as i can fly whatever i want.

It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do
You missed the point. Not sure if you are capable of understand tho. Catching up older player doesnt mean having exatcly the same skill points as older guys have. It means being able to fly doctrines faster. As long as i can fly hac, t3, recon dont give fcuk about older player having 234252344 mil sp.

Short term will likely see some gains, but I think it's a poor idea long term.

We already have an issue where a new guy feels he must have skills x, y, and a to a certain point before he can begin having fun with the game, and cries that time is a barrier to that fun.

Now we will instead be like all those pay to win Facebook games where you can speed up progress with the direct application of cash. Sure, you don't have to pay, but for just a few bucks here and there you can do more.

This will be followed by updates with op new ships, weapons and other goodies that all require new skills, and skills probably at max levels to use.

If it was all pure ISK, I would be fine, though that introducing a semi-mandatory grind. But it's not. It's Aurum, and that's the more cancerous aspect.

This is the wrong direction to go. Make stats more meaningful, not less. Provide actual trade offs.

This system will devolve the game into a short term, instant gratification cesspool of power creep to keep up the justification of buying all the skillpoints.

This will kill the game in exactly the same fashion as microtransactions have killed every other serious game on the market. Only goofy Short term instant gratification games are 'successful' with this model.

Why is 100mil some magic number?

At 100mil your still not done with all you can train.

But now your adding the idea all a new player has to do is dump money into plex and can go POOF and get 5 million skillpoints.

I simply put it in a perspective of not spending real world currency to advance yourself.
I've never considered EVE a game that you throw more real world money at to make your character better.
But those skins are darn addicting to buy.

Sure I am aware of the character bazaar. It's fundamentally different.

With the character bazaar you might can find a character trained to whatever doctrine your favorite FC is using, but it's not a guarantee, you are paying for other stuff you don't need, etc, etc...

It does not lend itself to what's coming next, which is the same sort of power creep enjoyed by all the other pay to win games. New Ships, OP relative to existing ships, that use all new skills or else uncommon combinations of skills. Ditto with new weapons, modules, etc... Probably just straight up new skills for new functionality---all added to make you want to buy the SP packs to be first on the block to use the new stuff.

With skill packs you open a new door to all sorts of darkness. We will still have newbies crying about not being able to be competitive until Skills X, Y, and Z are trained to level 5.... only now instead of inviting them into our missions to catch bounties and become familiar with the game in a more organic fashion, or tossing them into cheap tacklers and whatnot, they will just be told to buy the appropriate skill points and build the flavor of the month on the spot. Those that don't spend the cash up front will wind up ostracized for not being team players, and a whole other cascade of nasty that this will engender because that's just human nature.

It's not the same or equivalent to the bazaar at all, and is ultimately exactly what the Jita Riots are all about, just repackaged in a way that appeals to the gotta have it now crowd.

Actually you can find almost the same skill planned characters on the market because people are farming chars in their alt accounts. Since its not a rocket sience, skill is needed in general very common. Core skills, cruiser 5, drone skills etc. If you are not looking for very specific one, its quite easy to find one you will like.

Almost all competitive active pvp corps requires at least 20-30 mil sp. Which means years of training. If you dont have that much sp you will be advised to farm isk and upgrade a new character which is the only viable option we have right now. Instead of farming 20-30 billions Isk and maybe a lot more, why not give people ability to spend few millions of isk every month to upgrade so they can reach to certain point they are looking for and having more fun at the same time.

I also wonder what makes you change your attitude? You can still invite newbies for missions so they can farm few isk to uprage their caracal to raven.


What you dont understand is today people already forced to buy character from market to compete older players. Today we already have those issues you mentioned. I bought character from market, my friends did. Because we are forced to do due to poorly designed mechanics. If you dont, you will just make older characters have fun blowing your t1 poor fitted ship. You must have high sp character to compete high sp players. Or you need to outnumber heavily which in fact doesnt solve the problem.

My attitude doesn't change, I would still invite anyone interested to come join me in missions. That won't happen now because if they want to do that they will just go solo their own, and gripe about the standings grind that starts them in extremely easy missions that barely challenge a newbie frigate.

The poor mechanics have not changed. Eve PvP is in almost as bad a shape as it's PvE. They have relied so heavily on their beloved butterfly effect for content that all they for too long was shuffle some ship stats. That was good stuff, but it's not all that needed done, and the game suffers for it.

What you don't realize is that the money sink will never end. Once you have your shiny perfect character custom tailored to the flavor of the month, the flavor will change to another race. New weapons will be added. New ship classes. New modules. All of this will require all brand new skills, and will obsolete the previous new thing. It will never end, and at the end of a few years a newbie will have to sub, and then drop a ton of extra cash catching up to the newest stuff, and just like those pay to win games it will stagnate and die because long term it's not a sustainable model.

They can say they won't do that, but they also said no microtransactions that affect ship performance. This is exactly what that is. Straight up purchase of ship performance. Those farmed subscriptions in the bazaar are different because a change in the meta makes them near worthless. They are still grown over time, and their production speed is limited. If they decide to add a new ship type then they will have to be tailored to that like everyone else instead of the whole server dropping cash on ccp for the new hotness.

I'd be interested to see how the market balances this one out.

1st you need to throw a Plex into the multi-character training each month.
Then because the SP injectors cost Aurum you'd need to pay for the aurum to convert the SP into injectors.
Then you'll sell the injectors for isk.

I kind of imagine it'll be used more on alt accounts, where someone has an account for trading/cynos/spies etc. The account is able to train a single character no matter what by being active, so instead of a spy wasting the SP training on a character that will be burnt when he's outed, he can do what you've proposed on an alt and sell the SP without needing to use multi-character training. If you're paying for that account on a multi-month subscription the costs are much lower than plex, so he's got an advantage on the SP trading market.


In the end these are not the things I'm concerned about. I am concerned about consequences and character history. Currently if people want they can just use plex to generate isk, so what you've suggested is a more involved way of doing that.

I'm concerned about the history that characters have. If you get killed in eve a killmail is generated. You can't go and change the past because you don't like it, just move on from it. If you train a skill that later is useless to you I don't think you should be able to go back and change it. A characters history is what gives it a story, a 'real' story.

People say 'you can just buy a character', but even then that character has history. Even a blank one will always be a bought character. You can look up character sales, so forever that character will be shown as a bought character.

I think the SP trading system proposed takes a lot of that away.

Pls don't make the game like that. Literally buy sp?

Pls no because that's gravitating towards pay to win rather quickly.

You know (and not trying to derail you)., my first few years at eve I was a pretty sucky player now that I look back at it.

On the flip side of that, looking back, throwing SP at it wouldn't have changed that. I had to learn by getting blown up.. alot. :D Making isk sucked. Ships were far less balanced. Missiles were king! And I would die, stupidly. have to look at what happened, and adapt. Good fun.

What you posted makes sense though.

Why not? If someone wants to waste hundred/thousands of dollars and/or ten's of billions of isks... that's his choice.

That would be a small minority.

The vast majority would help them sell some sp for some isk, and fine tune their characters.