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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#3641 - 2015-10-19 12:34:26 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
A serious request, Is there any chance the ISDs could clear out all of the posts made by Dave? We all are aware of his viewpoint, perhaps just leave one of his posts here for historical purposes. It is a drastic move but he has made the thread unreadable for anyone wanting to follow this discussion. It is clear he is simply spamming the thread to shut down all reasonable discussion.


Report him and see :)

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#3642 - 2015-10-19 12:36:40 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
A serious request, Is there any chance the ISDs could clear out all of the posts made by Dave? We all are aware of his viewpoint, perhaps just leave one of his posts here for historical purposes. It is a drastic move but he has made the thread unreadable for anyone wanting to follow this discussion. It is clear he is simply spamming the thread to shut down all reasonable discussion.


Report him and see :)

Ok done, I am sure he must be breaking at least one of the forum rules.
Dave stark
#3643 - 2015-10-19 12:39:26 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
A serious request, Is there any chance the ISDs could clear out all of the posts made by Dave? We all are aware of his viewpoint, perhaps just leave one of his posts here for historical purposes. It is a drastic move but he has made the thread unreadable for anyone wanting to follow this discussion. It is clear he is simply spamming the thread to shut down all reasonable discussion.


Report him and see :)


please do.

i'm interested to see if "being dave stark" is now against the forum rules.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#3644 - 2015-10-19 12:41:13 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
A serious request, Is there any chance the ISDs could clear out all of the posts made by Dave? We all are aware of his viewpoint, perhaps just leave one of his posts here for historical purposes. It is a drastic move but he has made the thread unreadable for anyone wanting to follow this discussion. It is clear he is simply spamming the thread to shut down all reasonable discussion.


Report him and see :)


please do.

i'm interested to see if "being dave stark" is now against the forum rules.

So am I. But in all seriousness this is the reason places like redit have become the venue for official feedback, because it is all too easy for one or two people to derail a topic on the eve forums.
Dave stark
#3645 - 2015-10-19 12:43:03 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
A serious request, Is there any chance the ISDs could clear out all of the posts made by Dave? We all are aware of his viewpoint, perhaps just leave one of his posts here for historical purposes. It is a drastic move but he has made the thread unreadable for anyone wanting to follow this discussion. It is clear he is simply spamming the thread to shut down all reasonable discussion.


Report him and see :)


please do.

i'm interested to see if "being dave stark" is now against the forum rules.

So am I. But in all seriousness this is the reason places like redit have become the venue for official feedback, because it is all too easy for one or two people to derail a topic on the eve forums.


yeah, i said exactly that in this thread ages ago.

the ability to collapse a string of replies between two people is really nice. the first time i saw it i thought the layout was hideous but it's actually great once you get used to it.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#3646 - 2015-10-19 12:44:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Maekchu
Maekchu wrote:
But I think, if CCP markets the game correctly, they would be able to explain to possible new players, that SP is not what defines your character.

How convenient, that CCP has updated the wiki with 8 golden rules of EvE.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Golden_Rules

Since the game launcher ad, will eventually be removed. CCP should consider having this permanently on the launcher, or somewhere else for newbies to read.

To all the people still using the "It's P2W cause I can just farm infinite SP points on my character".
Quote:
Experience matters, not ISK or Skills

Quote:
Total skillpoints count doesn't matter much either, it's level of relevant skills to the current situation that does. Yes, that does mean a 2 mil SP combat-oriented newbie could badly beat up a 60 mil SP industry-oriented veteran.

As has been argued in this argument as well, SP does not matter. Especially combined with how the skills work (80% are trained extremely fast) and how combat works (rock-paper-scissors system).

So can we please stop using this argument over and over again, since the counter-arguments are the same and it just results in 100 pages of the same being said repeatedly.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3647 - 2015-10-19 12:45:37 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Syn'Drakkahr wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Syn'Drakkahr wrote:

This devalues SP and Time, therefore devalues the vet's and players that have supported the game since day 1. It goes against most values and standards of the player base.

It can't devalues something that not for sale.
Syn'Drakkahr wrote:

But effectively, you are just purchasing the SP and not time.

To create SP somebody need to wait training time and then sell it.
Syn'Drakkahr wrote:

At this current stage, the update means people will simply set up SP character farms and sell the SP on the market for gains.

Firstly you need purche for PLEX and extractors to be able to farm SP.


Quotes:

1.) You devalue the time players have spent in EVE online by making TIME & SP so ready available.

2.) Enough farms & SP sales will make everyone hit MAX skills in a SHORT amount of TIME! = No one is UNIQUE!

3.) WELL DONE!

1)It will devalue training time for sure but is it makes your char so speacial like one of the bazaars toons or time which you spend for actually playing or personality which you make? Maybe you just afraid that someone make example from you and rearanging skill like you did? I think it's reason to proud of if someone make examples of you.

2)Farmers need massive supply of extractors so they are much depending from price on the market. If everyone will farm SP like this it wont be profitable because of high price on extractor and low price on SP. Market will balace it.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#3648 - 2015-10-19 12:48:30 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
A serious request, Is there any chance the ISDs could clear out all of the posts made by Dave? We all are aware of his viewpoint, perhaps just leave one of his posts here for historical purposes. It is a drastic move but he has made the thread unreadable for anyone wanting to follow this discussion. It is clear he is simply spamming the thread to shut down all reasonable discussion.


Report him and see :)


please do.

i'm interested to see if "being dave stark" is now against the forum rules.

So am I. But in all seriousness this is the reason places like redit have become the venue for official feedback, because it is all too easy for one or two people to derail a topic on the eve forums.


yeah, i said exactly that in this thread ages ago.

the ability to collapse a string of replies between two people is really nice. the first time i saw it i thought the layout was hideous but it's actually great once you get used to it.

Yep the structure of redit is great for discussing things. The problem is a lot of the playerbase don't use redit, and a lot that do probably aren't active subscribers and so don't really care about the long term future of eve.

Like a couple of people mentioned, a lot of them could be old players just looking to cash out using this system and then they can basically play for free on the back of their massive SP pools.
Daimus Daranius
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#3649 - 2015-10-19 12:48:50 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Zappity wrote:
It would not be called a 'sacred cow' if it were uncontroversial. But this is one that needs to be turned into a steak.

Judging from the feedback in this thread it would seem that your stance on the subject is not shared by the majority of people in this thread and would not be too healthy for subscription numbers.

Yes you could just write this all off as idle threats, but if you are in CCPs position would you want to really risk it and be the one who bought a 12 year old game to its knees just so you can implement this?

Everyone realised that jump fatigue and the sov changes needed to be done, and so despite the negative reactions players stuck with CCP as we knew we could not keep the status quo. This on the other hand is much more dangerous as it all to close to Incarna.

I actually think a lot of players have already let micro transactions slip in through the back door in the form of ship SKINs, a feature that nearly everyone had wanted, but somehow CCP cleverly managed to tie it to microtransactions without much of a fuss from the players. It was explained away at the time that it is fine as ship skins are cosmetic items; this idea on the other hand is going to be different as SPs are far from cosmetic.

Rubbish. People won't quit over this. Why would they? It doesn't materially affect your game play if you choose not to participate. I And the feedback on reddit was very different to here, indicating that there is a possibile significant upside.

Don't like microtransactions? Simply don't do them. Buy from the market instead. If this was a "soul-bound" proposal I would be dead against it. But it isn't so I have no problem with it.


You failed as a psychic. I'll be one of the first to run away from this horrid game if this abomination is unleashed into Eve.



Can I have your stuff?

Amarr Victor!
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#3650 - 2015-10-19 12:49:02 UTC
What is ETA on this feature anyway?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#3651 - 2015-10-19 12:51:00 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
It's me the only tired of seeing how the thread has devolved into 50% of Dave Stark vs the Universe?

What a troll. Evil


No!

Dave shut the hell up and go away!
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#3652 - 2015-10-19 12:53:07 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
As has been argued in this argument as well, SP does not matter. Especially combined with how the skills work (80% are trained extremely fast) and how combat works (rock-paper-scissors system).

So can we please stop using this argument over and over again, since the counter-arguments are the same and it just results in 100 pages of the same being said repeatedly.

Thank you for clearing this up. If it's not about SP, as CCP claims, it's all about the money...

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Dave stark
#3653 - 2015-10-19 12:53:13 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Yep the structure of redit is great for discussing things. The problem is a lot of the playerbase don't use redit, and a lot that do probably aren't active subscribers and so don't really care about the long term future of eve.

Like a couple of people mentioned, a lot of them could be old players just looking to cash out using this system and then they can basically play for free on the back of their massive SP pools.


from what i've seen it looks like most of the people are active subscribers. it's hard to know for sure, though.

if people want to cash out, they already can. sell the character, RMT the isk... or just directly RMT the character.
it's not like this idea opens up ways to cash out that weren't already there.
Dave stark
#3654 - 2015-10-19 12:53:59 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
It's me the only tired of seeing how the thread has devolved into 50% of Dave Stark vs the Universe?

What a troll. Evil


No!

Dave shut the hell up and go away!


now you're just being rude.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#3655 - 2015-10-19 12:55:31 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Yep the structure of redit is great for discussing things. The problem is a lot of the playerbase don't use redit, and a lot that do probably aren't active subscribers and so don't really care about the long term future of eve.

Like a couple of people mentioned, a lot of them could be old players just looking to cash out using this system and then they can basically play for free on the back of their massive SP pools.


from what i've seen it looks like most of the people are active subscribers. it's hard to know for sure, though.

if people want to cash out, they already can. sell the character, RMT the isk... or just directly RMT the character.
it's not like this idea opens up ways to cash out that weren't already there.

It is a lot easier to chop off bits from your main that you don't need anymore than to completely sell your character on the bazaar and start a new one.
Koki Ottic
Merry dancers in the sky
#3656 - 2015-10-19 12:58:50 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
A serious request, Is there any chance the ISDs could clear out all of the posts made by Dave? We all are aware of his viewpoint, perhaps just leave one of his posts here for historical purposes. It is a drastic move but he has made the thread unreadable for anyone wanting to follow this discussion. It is clear he is simply spamming the thread to shut down all reasonable discussion.


If you click on a users name there is an option to hide post.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#3657 - 2015-10-19 13:00:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Daimus Daranius wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Zappity wrote:
It would not be called a 'sacred cow' if it were uncontroversial. But this is one that needs to be turned into a steak.

Judging from the feedback in this thread it would seem that your stance on the subject is not shared by the majority of people in this thread and would not be too healthy for subscription numbers.

Yes you could just write this all off as idle threats, but if you are in CCPs position would you want to really risk it and be the one who bought a 12 year old game to its knees just so you can implement this?

Everyone realised that jump fatigue and the sov changes needed to be done, and so despite the negative reactions players stuck with CCP as we knew we could not keep the status quo. This on the other hand is much more dangerous as it all to close to Incarna.

I actually think a lot of players have already let micro transactions slip in through the back door in the form of ship SKINs, a feature that nearly everyone had wanted, but somehow CCP cleverly managed to tie it to microtransactions without much of a fuss from the players. It was explained away at the time that it is fine as ship skins are cosmetic items; this idea on the other hand is going to be different as SPs are far from cosmetic.

Rubbish. People won't quit over this. Why would they? It doesn't materially affect your game play if you choose not to participate. I And the feedback on reddit was very different to here, indicating that there is a possibile significant upside.

Don't like microtransactions? Simply don't do them. Buy from the market instead. If this was a "soul-bound" proposal I would be dead against it. But it isn't so I have no problem with it.


You failed as a psychic. I'll be one of the first to run away from this horrid game if this abomination is unleashed into Eve.



Can I have your stuff?


Sure I'll leave a couple million isk worth of junk you can have.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#3658 - 2015-10-19 13:01:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Maekchu
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
As has been argued in this argument as well, SP does not matter. Especially combined with how the skills work (80% are trained extremely fast) and how combat works (rock-paper-scissors system).

So can we please stop using this argument over and over again, since the counter-arguments are the same and it just results in 100 pages of the same being said repeatedly.

Thank you for clearing this up. If it's not about SP, as CCP claims, it's all about the money...

I would totally agree with you, if the feature was only attainable with IRL money. However, since it is not. This is very similar to a Plex, but instead of ISK you exchange SP. If you are against this idea, you should equally be against Plex, because both gives you the option to progress faster by buying items with IRL money. However, with how EvE works both more ISK and more SP does not really matter, since you cannot "win" EvE based on these two factors alone.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#3659 - 2015-10-19 13:01:30 UTC
Koki Ottic wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
A serious request, Is there any chance the ISDs could clear out all of the posts made by Dave? We all are aware of his viewpoint, perhaps just leave one of his posts here for historical purposes. It is a drastic move but he has made the thread unreadable for anyone wanting to follow this discussion. It is clear he is simply spamming the thread to shut down all reasonable discussion.


If you click on a users name there is an option to hide post.

You can't hide all the posts that quote him in it though. It is an obvious tactic to derail the discussion. Goons have been using it for ages.
Jared Khanar
#3660 - 2015-10-19 13:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jared Khanar
Maekchu wrote:

I would totally agree with you, if the feature was only attainable with IRL money. However, since it is not. This is very similar to a Plex, but instead of ISK you exchange SP. If you are against this idea, you should equally be against Plex, because both gives you the option to progress faster by buying an items with IRL money. However, with how EvE works both more ISK and more SP does not really matter, since you cannot "win" EvE based on these two factors alone.



It is only available with rl money as the extractors are bought via aurum

as i postet some pages ago:

player extracting sp - money to ccp <-> player buying sp via isk - no money to ccp
player extracting sp - money to ccp <-> player buying sp via rl money (plex) - money to ccp

two options - one of them pays ccp on BOTH sides

it doesn´t matter if you pay directly with rl money or plex - either way ccp gets money

Economic Services

trading spacepixels