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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#3161 - 2015-10-18 15:05:46 UTC
I hope CCP don't introduce this new feature around the 10th of next month.

Then the (possibly) massive drop off in players online due to Fallout 4 will instead be used as a justification for the I-told-you-so people to party in the streets because they were so right. It takes a special kind of stupid to joyfully dance at the prospect of being right that the game they love is dying. But there you go. They will dance and they will be wrong.

But what will they say 100 hours of FO4 later when all those people start to get the EVE shakes and return to the game? How will they then explain why the numbers are climbing? They'll most certainly not have quit as many are threatening to do, so they'll be around to see the rebound.

Should be interesting to see the backpedaling then. Or the whole issue may be moot as they've all moved on to the next big thing that is causing that unstable sky to fall on them.

Mr Epeen Cool
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3162 - 2015-10-18 15:07:41 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Public Relation wrote:
Oh no with this new feature, people will Pay to win...

Ok, lets put this in perspective:

I am rich beyond belief, and hear about a game called EvE with huge interstellar war etc. Ok so i decide to play the game:

- I buy the game, set-up sub.
- I buy a few hundred plex, i put them on the market low enough for a fast sell.
- When those plex are sold i have a few hundred billion isk in my wallet
- After some research on the web i buy a few high skilled Titan/carrier/dread character, and a high skilled pvp character.

Then i convo the leader of one of the best alliance in the game, i explain that i am rich and propose to inject a few billion isk every month in his alliance if he get me a decent place in his organisation, he agree and i then get to there staging system, buy all the cap/subcap ships i need with the best mod possible.

So in less then 48 hour i have "pay to win EvE". I did this with the feature already available in the game...

And suddenly people get upset because "now" someone can "pay to win" with the skill trading feature?????????

Hilarious.

Rich man already have this opportunity without SP trading system. He just need to buy toon from Bazaar or ask for it from sponsored alliance.
Dave Stark
#3163 - 2015-10-18 15:08:18 UTC
Delegate wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
This is being done pure and simply for profit, whether you like it or not and like i said before you really think it will stay if they can make yet another whole new revenue stream from another added F2P feature of microtransactions that hit at a core principal of the game they said would never alter.


My personal take on this proposal is that CCP find itself increasingly out of options to maintain the revenue stream. I personally would prefer paying higher sub price, than witnessing this SP market go online.


personally, i would rather see the continuation and improvement of buying/selling of SP than a hike in sub prices.

not to mention the increased cost in subscription fees, and subsequently plex prices, would allow illicit RMTers back in to the market who were previously priced out.

Dave Stark
#3164 - 2015-10-18 15:09:57 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
I hope CCP don't introduce this new feature around the 10th of next month.

Then the (possibly) massive drop off in players online due to Fallout 4 will instead be used as a justification for the I-told-you-so people to party in the streets because they were so right. It takes a special kind of stupid to joyfully dance at the prospect of being right that the game they love is dying. But there you go. They will dance and they will be wrong.

But what will they say 100 hours of FO4 later when all those people start to get the EVE shakes and return to the game? How will they then explain why the numbers are climbing? They'll most certainly not have quit as many are threatening to do, so they'll be around to see the rebound.

Should be interesting to see the backpedaling then. Or the whole issue may be moot as they've all moved on to the next big thing that is causing that unstable sky to fall on them.

Mr Epeen Cool


**** fallout 4. starwars battlefront, dude.
Jared Khanar
#3165 - 2015-10-18 15:10:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jared Khanar
Delegate wrote:


My personal take on this proposal is that CCP find itself increasingly out of options to maintain the revenue stream. I personally would prefer paying higher sub price, than witnessing this SP market go online.


WOD, Dust, Gunjack, Valkyrie - who do you think pays for these developments? If you extract massive amounts of capital from the project that earns you this - what is going to happen if not enough is left to satisfy these customers or if you need more because you wastet these investments, canceling projects? Do a simple math what ccp has to pay for eve fanfest or vegas and think about what could have happend to this game if all this money and devtime had been used from the beginning to primarily develop eve instead?

Still wating on them to keep their promises from 2011: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ0k0ioROUo

That´s a timeframe others develop complete and complex AAA games

Economic Services

trading spacepixels

ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#3166 - 2015-10-18 15:17:09 UTC
I have removed a lengthy back and forth between two players. Please use EVE mail if you want to make things personal and spew nonsense in no relation to the subject at hand.

Quote:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Charlie Nonoke
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#3167 - 2015-10-18 15:36:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Charlie Nonoke
Tristan Agion wrote:
Robert Sawyer wrote:
This will introduce a pay-to-win philosophy that will drive noobs and veterans alike away from the game as literally EVERYBODY will be able to do anything - you'll have new players buying PLEX and the SP to fly Dreadnoughts within days.

So, to fly a Dreadnought you need what, 30M SP at a minimum? Under the current proposal, you need to buy 72.5 skill packets to get you that much SP. Let's say the market price for a skill packet is about 0.166 PLEX (it will be less that 0.25 PLEX, and more than whatever the extractors costs). Then you need 12 PLEX to buy the skill packets to fly a dreadnought.

How many newbies will actually spend a year's supply of PLEX just to fly a dreadnought? And why do you think it matters if a few do? Chances are that a newbie in dreadnought will derp around for a few days before getting killed by somebody who knows what they are doing. However, that newbie gave CCP about 200 bucks to run their game, and dumped 12 PLEX on the market driving the price for PLEX down. Both are good for you, since the game will be around for longer and you will find it easier to play to pay. And hey, maybe you are the competent player who blows the clueless newbie in his dreadnought to bits, and you get a fun kill mail out of it as well. Meanwhile, the newbie will either drop out - but probably would have anyway, now however having financed your game for a bit - or will have gotten "big ships are better" out of their system. What's not to like?

By your calculations, there's also another advantage, if a newbie has 12 PLEX to spend, he would, and I know I would, rather burn up the 12 PLEX initially for a 30m injection, rather than spend 12 PLEX for a year's subscription, and only passive train about 23m SP, assuming 2700SP\hr, which also is impossible to achieve because of remaps and Cybernetics V.

Sure he misses the 12 months playtime, but he gets more SP, and gets instant delivery. All while only spending 12 PLEX.

BTW, I also hate the idea.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3168 - 2015-10-18 15:39:45 UTC
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#3169 - 2015-10-18 15:44:31 UTC
Charlie Nonoke wrote:

By your calculations, there's also another advantage, if a newbie has 12 PLEX to spend, he would, and I know I would, rather burn up the 12 PLEX initially for a 30m injection, rather than spend 12 PLEX for a year's subscription, and only passive train about 23m SP, assuming 2700SP\hr, which also is impossible to achieve because of remaps and Cybernetics V.

Sure he misses the 12 months playtime, but he gets more SP, and gets instant delivery. All while only spending 12 PLEX.

BTW, I also hate the idea.


As opposed to now where that players buys a 30+M SP character on the bazaar with PLEX left over to add gametime or buy ships?

And if you hate the idea of buying SP, I'm sure I'll find posts in your history where you are railing at the idea that characters can be purchased already.

Mr Epeen Cool
Charlie Nonoke
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#3170 - 2015-10-18 15:45:25 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Charlie Nonoke wrote:

BTW, I also hate the idea.

Why?

I mean I hate the whole extracting SP and making it sellable.

As to why, my sentiments belong with 98% of the other voices.
Dave Stark
#3171 - 2015-10-18 15:46:30 UTC
Charlie Nonoke wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Charlie Nonoke wrote:

BTW, I also hate the idea.

Why?

I mean I hate the whole extracting SP and making it sellable.

As to why, my sentiments belong with 98% of the other voices.


so, you don't actually have a reason then.

i'd have thought after like 3 days knees would have stopped jerking.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3172 - 2015-10-18 15:50:17 UTC
Charlie Nonoke wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Charlie Nonoke wrote:

BTW, I also hate the idea.

Why?

I mean I hate the whole extracting SP and making it sellable.

As to why, my sentiments belong with 98% of the other voices.

It's not answer to my question.
Charlie Nonoke
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#3173 - 2015-10-18 15:50:39 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Charlie Nonoke wrote:

By your calculations, there's also another advantage, if a newbie has 12 PLEX to spend, he would, and I know I would, rather burn up the 12 PLEX initially for a 30m injection, rather than spend 12 PLEX for a year's subscription, and only passive train about 23m SP, assuming 2700SP\hr, which also is impossible to achieve because of remaps and Cybernetics V.

Sure he misses the 12 months playtime, but he gets more SP, and gets instant delivery. All while only spending 12 PLEX.

BTW, I also hate the idea.


As opposed to now where that players buys a 30+M SP character on the bazaar with PLEX left over to add gametime or buy ships?

And if you hate the idea of buying SP, I'm sure I'll find posts in your history where you are railing at the idea that characters can be purchased already.

Mr Epeen Cool

I'm not against the character bazaar and its function, because skills were already tailored by the original capsuleer and decisions were made by him. The new buyer has to accept those decisions, like neg stat, corp thief, crap name.

This idea negates all that history and is essentially paying for SP.

Character Bazaar is also paying for SP, but it comes at the price that it's not 1st hand.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3174 - 2015-10-18 15:51:52 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Charlie Nonoke wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Charlie Nonoke wrote:

BTW, I also hate the idea.

Why?

I mean I hate the whole extracting SP and making it sellable.

As to why, my sentiments belong with 98% of the other voices.


so, you don't actually have a reason then.

i'd have thought after like 3 days knees would have stopped jerking.


There is a big reason why and folks with principals try to stick with them, you tread on a turd you scrape it off and continue on your journey.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”

Lori Tempa
Tritanium Industries and Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#3175 - 2015-10-18 15:55:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Lori Tempa
Shocked
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#3176 - 2015-10-18 15:59:27 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Cearain wrote:


Every year the game has existed the new player has had to compete at a larger and larger skill point disadvantage. It is only right that ccp would give new players more options to deal with this disadvantage.


This I agree with 100%, however paying more RL cash on top of a subscription to get enough SPs to compete is going to leave a nasty taste for a lot of new guys, that's how many will perceive this. Far better to remove learning implants and max attributes and scale down training time modifiers on core skills to compensate the ever growing distance towards end game stuffs. If CCP want to bring new guys into the game quicker they'd do this, if they just want a desperate cash grab, they skim brokerage fees for our unwanted SPs...



This will presumably allow new players to spend much less money (compared to the character bazzar) to get the skills they really want.

Removing learning implants is another way to go but it doesn't address the issue as directly (implants don't really help that much) and I think it would crush the already teetering lp stores. There are some other issues there.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#3177 - 2015-10-18 15:59:36 UTC
Charlie Nonoke wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Charlie Nonoke wrote:

By your calculations, there's also another advantage, if a newbie has 12 PLEX to spend, he would, and I know I would, rather burn up the 12 PLEX initially for a 30m injection, rather than spend 12 PLEX for a year's subscription, and only passive train about 23m SP, assuming 2700SP\hr, which also is impossible to achieve because of remaps and Cybernetics V.

Sure he misses the 12 months playtime, but he gets more SP, and gets instant delivery. All while only spending 12 PLEX.

BTW, I also hate the idea.


As opposed to now where that players buys a 30+M SP character on the bazaar with PLEX left over to add gametime or buy ships?

And if you hate the idea of buying SP, I'm sure I'll find posts in your history where you are railing at the idea that characters can be purchased already.

Mr Epeen Cool

I'm not against the character bazaar and its function, because skills were already tailored by the original capsuleer and decisions were made by him. The new buyer has to accept those decisions, like neg stat, corp thief, crap name.

This idea negates all that history and is essentially paying for SP.

Character Bazaar is also paying for SP, but it comes at the price that it's not 1st hand.

The CB is not what you think it is.

There are people with 60-80 PO2 accts (I never go over twenty because I'm a lightweight) specifically training pilots for sale. Focused with no history, no reputation and in any flavor of skill combinations you like. No one will ever know it's a purchased character without actually digging in to the posting history.

Sure there is crap for sale. But it mostly stays for sale as there are much better options.

Mr Epeen Cool
Public Relation
Outer Space Relic Seekers
#3178 - 2015-10-18 16:06:42 UTC
Charlie Nonoke wrote:

I'm not against the character bazaar and its function, because skills were already tailored by the original capsuleer and decisions were made by him. The new buyer has to accept those decisions, like neg stat, corp thief, crap name.

This idea negates all that history and is essentially paying for SP.

Character Bazaar is also paying for SP, but it comes at the price that it's not 1st hand.


This change nothing in the end. I have bought character with a name i hated and history that could have been detrimental. Still i was able to fly with any corp and with the ship i wanted/needed in 1 day.

Worse then skill point trading are Plex. For someone with enough money, Plex = instant unlimited amount of isk, if you are bright enough you will understand the full consequence for any parties in EvE to have access to unlimited ressources with absolutly no risk.
Charlie Nonoke
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#3179 - 2015-10-18 16:09:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Charlie Nonoke
Dave Stark wrote:
Charlie Nonoke wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Charlie Nonoke wrote:

BTW, I also hate the idea.

Why?

I mean I hate the whole extracting SP and making it sellable.

As to why, my sentiments belong with 98% of the other voices.


so, you don't actually have a reason then.

i'd have thought after like 3 days knees would have stopped jerking.

The biggest reason is, you get to self tailor yourself in the purest form in an instant, at no price other than PLEX.
Start a newbie, persevere to 5m, start injecting. Be perfectly combat capable at Mastery V in an hour.

Whereas, Bazaar characters are never the way you want them to, and when presented with one which satisfies your requirement, comes with baggage, 20 corp history listings, useless skills which I had no intention of using, like leadership and Wing command V, when I just wanna small gang in cruisers. That's the price we pay, imperfections, caveats for other desirables. And we made the choice to go on.

I was always impressed by the idea that you should think hard of the decisions you make, because it branches out to undesirable consequences. Like, training Mining to IV because as a noob you wanted to get that extra yield to make money.

Now, this idea makes it so those consequences disappear. Remember years ago when you made a bad decision on your toon which you hated? Poof, gone.

I can start a character and make him pure, without the baggage.
Not only that, I can make him pure in an instant.
Not only that, I also circumvented one of the biggest assets we all possessed, and that's training time, perseverance, patience and sticking to a plan.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3180 - 2015-10-18 16:12:56 UTC
Public Relation wrote:

Worse then skill point trading are Plex. For someone with enough money, Plex = instant unlimited amount of isk, if you are bright enough you will understand the full consequence for any parties in EvE to have access to unlimited ressources with absolutly no risk.

Only because someone wont or can't earn isk we can have free sub. When someone dumping PLEXes into the game market price droping which also beneficial for players.