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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3101 - 2015-10-18 14:06:01 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
If we base a skill packet on 500k SP, an optimal remap and +4's = 1 every 8 days @ 300 mil cost + skill books (based on current plex prices).
Then you have the additional cost of the ‘Transneural Skill Packet’ to enable you to sell those SP.
100 mil has been thrown about a lot as a good price for this product;

If the ‘Transneural Skill Packet’ is available on the market for 100 mil (dependent on how much CCP decide to sell them for and Aurum market prices), your looking at a break even price of around 400 mil for that 500k SP on the market. A little under 1 isk per SP and that is only until players decide they want to make more isk from their unwanted but now marketable SP, at which time the market prices will steadily rise. I would estimate a price of between 650 and 700 mil after about 3 months, starting at around 900 mil at release.

This is Eve, when it comes to making isk everyone wants optimal income, so players with SP they want to sell will want to make as much as possible from that sale. What ever CCP's intention, these skill packages are not going to be cheap.
We already established a few pages ago that 500,000-SP skill packs will cost extractor price (your 100mil example) + 1/4 PLEX (300 mil today) = 400mil MAXIMUM.

But probably less than that, considering all the 'marketable' SP that's sitting in player accounts, plus the continuous SP-generation on active accounts.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3102 - 2015-10-18 14:06:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
Dave Stark wrote:
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Jared Khanar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

the idea isn't anything new. buying and selling sp has already existed. if people are turned off buy it they've already been turned off. likewise if they're a fan of the idea.


How can we already BUY and SELL SP (not characters - sp!) Even after all these years i´m here i haven´t heard of it - please teach me


do i really have to wheel out the still unanswered "which system am i describing" question?

really?


Yes, you do. Otherwise you will not be taken for serious.


ok then.

i start with a character with a set of skills i don't like. i end up with a character with a set of skills i do like.

which system am i describing, the old one or the new one?


Why dont you answer the ******* question instead of dodging it, 4 times ive seen you do that now, brain not going as fast as the fingers would like or areyou being puppeted pal

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Jared Khanar
#3103 - 2015-10-18 14:08:31 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:

ok then.

i start with a character with a set of skills i don't like. i end up with a character with a set of skills i do like.

which system am i describing, the old one or the new one?



this is called question - not answer - as demanded - just to note this

how do you extract sps from a character and sell them or inject them into another one with the current features?

Economic Services

trading spacepixels
Dave Stark
#3104 - 2015-10-18 14:08:33 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Why dont you answer the ******* question instead of dodging it


i haven't dodged anything.

we already know the purpose of the character bazaar is to buy and sell SP. now, you can either carry on pretending i'm avoiding a question that we answered multiple times already or you can start contributing to the discussion.

i don't really care which you do.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3105 - 2015-10-18 14:10:23 UTC
Full on dodged, this makes me think that certain things are waiting to be answered by someone other than you ....... your points are pretty mute now.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Jared Khanar
#3106 - 2015-10-18 14:10:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jared Khanar
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Why dont you answer the ******* question instead of dodging it


i haven't dodged anything.

we already know the purpose of the character bazaar is to buy and sell SP. now, you can either carry on pretending i'm avoiding a question that we answered multiple times already or you can start contributing to the discussion.

i don't really care which you do.


The purpose of the character bazaar is not to buy and sell sp - it´s purpose is to buy and sell characters - you cannot craft a second character using a bought one - this is just ... stupid - srry to say that - no personal offence intended - maybe it will be a good thing to recap or rethink your logic and it´s fundamentals

Economic Services

trading spacepixels
Interfly Ghormenheist
The Caravan Track
#3107 - 2015-10-18 14:11:12 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Jared Khanar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

the idea isn't anything new. buying and selling sp has already existed. if people are turned off buy it they've already been turned off. likewise if they're a fan of the idea.


How can we already BUY and SELL SP (not characters - sp!) Even after all these years i´m here i haven´t heard of it - please teach me


do i really have to wheel out the still unanswered "which system am i describing" question?

really?


Yes, you do. Otherwise you will not be taken for serious.


ok then.

i start with a character with a set of skills i don't like. i end up with a character with a set of skills i do like.

which system am i describing, the old one or the new one?


You are giving an assessment here. What characters you do like, or do not like, is irrelevant for the topic. Same goes for me by the way. It may change over time, just as their SP. Maybe you could define and describe the actual system you are referring to?

Last time that “greed was good”, the information was leaked. In 2015 it was posted.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#3108 - 2015-10-18 14:11:24 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
It is totally relevant, if this goes live it will affect the NPE to deny that is ridiculous. How it will be perceived is open to debate, but I think a fair case can be made that many will see buying skillpoints as necessary.


the idea isn't anything new. buying and selling sp has already existed. if people are turned off buy it they've already been turned off. likewise if they're a fan of the idea.


The quantity is what's new, as you like saying so often, it's in the dev blog, the granular nature of these skill packets will make it more normal for new guys to buy them where it would be less usual to buy an entire character. This comes with a downside as new guys who can't afford a sub and skill packets will see their immediate peers (as someone else already pointed out) advancing more quickly than them. Your argument is obtuse and fails to recognise the importance of how new players perceive things.


he's going to see some one buy SP packets, or a new character. if some one is going to pay to advance, they're going to pay to advance. pretending that'll only be the case because we're now selling SP a different way is laughable.

if he can't afford to pay to advance and his peers can, he will be left behind regardless of whether or not this system is added to the game.

i don't fail to recognise the importance, you fail to recognise it already exists and isn't new.


You fail to recognise how items of smaller value sell more frequently and to a greater spectrum of incomes than items of larger value. If it's there's literally zero difference between the character bazaar and skill packets then one has to ask why are CCP wasting all this effort in changing it ?
Dave Stark
#3109 - 2015-10-18 14:11:27 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Full on dodged, this makes me think that certain things are waiting to be answered by someone other than you ....... your points are pretty mute now.



fully dodged? not even remotely. it has been answered that many times it's not even funny.

that's why this thread is as long as it is, because the same questions have to be answered over and over because of people like you who require 30 replies to understand basic points that aren't even related to the topic.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3110 - 2015-10-18 14:12:09 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
It is totally relevant, if this goes live it will affect the NPE to deny that is ridiculous. How it will be perceived is open to debate, but I think a fair case can be made that many will see buying skillpoints as necessary.


the idea isn't anything new. buying and selling sp has already existed. if people are turned off buy it they've already been turned off. likewise if they're a fan of the idea.


The quantity is what's new, as you like saying so often, it's in the dev blog, the granular nature of these skill packets will make it more normal for new guys to buy them where it would be less usual to buy an entire character. This comes with a downside as new guys who can't afford a sub and skill packets will see their immediate peers (as someone else already pointed out) advancing more quickly than them. Your argument is obtuse and fails to recognise the importance of how new players perceive things.


he's going to see some one buy SP packets, or a new character. if some one is going to pay to advance, they're going to pay to advance. pretending that'll only be the case because we're now selling SP a different way is laughable.

if he can't afford to pay to advance and his peers can, he will be left behind regardless of whether or not this system is added to the game.

i don't fail to recognise the importance, you fail to recognise it already exists and isn't new.

So what your saying is - Those with plenty of disposable income that can afford to buy enhancements for their play style are the only ones CCP are interested in keeping as customers?

Those who can't afford all the nice leaps in training or buying a char off the bazaar, get left behind and quit but that is ok because that is how it is now - This change is not going to help new player retention (the main goal) So why bother doing it at all?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#3111 - 2015-10-18 14:12:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Dave Stark wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
I see then that means you must be a Lawyer in RL and this is one of your "Bad Habits".


yeah, why not.

i'm a lawyer. we'll go with it.

if we've stopped trying to guess my occupation, we can always get back to discussing the devblog?


Have it your way.

This is my opinion on how this should work if CCP insist on trading SP.

1st--Veterans can extract 5 skills per year using the Transneural Package. The skills that are extracted, extracts the entire skill regardless of the level. The extracted skills extracts up to 70% of the actual SP extracted which the player can relocate anywhere else on him/herself only (can't be sold to someone else cause it breaks eve realistic principles).

2nd--CCP introduce a new skill book called Transneural with Int/Mem attributes and a 4x training time multiplier. This would be a skill that a player needs to train to level 5 if they want to sell their own SP to other pilots. Once this skill is trained to level 5 it starts producing unallocated SP that can be uses however the player wishes with a -30% SP accumulation drawback.

With these features incorporated it limits the abuse of SP farming and most importantly it doesn't break Eve game principles.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3112 - 2015-10-18 14:12:55 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Perception vs reality, surely you can't deny that despite it not being true, many new player and plenty of older player in this very thread perceive a need for skillpoints.
The only possible outcome of a mechanic that converts SP to ISK and viceversa, is the devaluation of people's perception of SP.

As long as SP was non-marketable and non-acquirable except by waiting days, weeks, months, it's value was 'HUGE'.

Now it will be 0.8 ISK per SP, or less. No matter what, putting a price on something that was price-less, devalues it.

People will start thinking: do I need 2 mil SP this month, or should I buy and fit a faction battleship instead?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Dave Stark
#3113 - 2015-10-18 14:13:20 UTC
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
Maybe you could define and describe the actual system you are referring to?


i just did.

Portmanteau wrote:
If it's there's literally zero difference between the character bazaar and skill packets then one has to ask why are CCP wasting all this effort in changing it ?


this question has been answered so many times it's getting tragic now. the answer is even in the devblog.

go and read it.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3114 - 2015-10-18 14:14:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Full on dodged, this makes me think that certain things are waiting to be answered by someone other than you ....... your points are pretty mute now.



fully dodged? not even remotely. it has been answered that many times it's not even funny.

that's why this thread is as long as it is, because the same questions have to be answered over and over because of people like you who require 30 replies to understand basic points that aren't even related to the topic.


well why did you reply to the message i wrote and you replied about training a skill i was like WTF is that an answer too ???


If we strip away anything virtual from the game we have two constants in play, Time and Money

A legacy character is a snapshot in time, whether 12 years ago or 6 months ago even when unsubbed its frozen in time but in no way can it be manipulated. You can add time to it but it can never be reversed. There is no deconstruction of its timeline, It is a part of the ever evolving universe of eve from a conceptual point of origin.

Now comes a fresh approach, you now want to be able to reverse engineer the timeline. You now want to be able to create elite characters from fragments of time. The convergeance of multiple time streams to manipulate this creation at speed.

The legacy approach has a one off monetary payement, the Hybrid need feeding to progress its ever increasing need for time.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Jared Khanar
#3115 - 2015-10-18 14:15:28 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


i just did.


you are comparing apples with cars telling people they are the same - happy driving in your apple btw

Economic Services

trading spacepixels
EnergizerBunny
Scrubs R us
#3116 - 2015-10-18 14:15:40 UTC
if you give all characters in eve a FULL respec then we can discuss this bad idea.

scenario

you sitting a random null system, you see a neut reported in intel. you see his is 13 days old char. you think ahh scanny guy or cyno character.

5 mins later you get dropped by a 50 mill sp 13 day old character.. yay good fun. now you have changed a huge part of the intel system. see a characters age has always been used to asses what lvl the treath is.
Dave Stark
#3117 - 2015-10-18 14:16:08 UTC
Jared Khanar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


i just did.


you are comparing apples with cars telling people they are the same - happy driving in your apple btw


uh, i haven't mentioned apples or cars.
Interfly Ghormenheist
The Caravan Track
#3118 - 2015-10-18 14:17:59 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
Maybe you could define and describe the actual system you are referring to?


i just did.

Portmanteau wrote:
If it's there's literally zero difference between the character bazaar and skill packets then one has to ask why are CCP wasting all this effort in changing it ?


this question has been answered so many times it's getting tragic now. the answer is even in the devblog.

go and read it.


You are doing neither yourself, nor the argument you stand for any kind of favour with these rhetorical antics. It is very clear, that you gave an assessment just before, no definition. It is subjective and irrelevant in this context. Anyone can read it a few posts up.

Last time that “greed was good”, the information was leaked. In 2015 it was posted.
Dave Stark
#3119 - 2015-10-18 14:18:09 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Full on dodged, this makes me think that certain things are waiting to be answered by someone other than you ....... your points are pretty mute now.



fully dodged? not even remotely. it has been answered that many times it's not even funny.

that's why this thread is as long as it is, because the same questions have to be answered over and over because of people like you who require 30 replies to understand basic points that aren't even related to the topic.


well why did you reply to the message i wrote and you replied about training a skill i was like WTF is that an answer too ???


If we strip away anything virtual from the game we have two constants in play, Time and Money

A legacy character is a snapshot in time, whether 12 years ago or 6 months ago even when unsubbed its frozen in time but in no way can it be manipulated. You can add time to it but it can never be reversed. There is no deconstruction of its timeline, It is a part of the ever evolving universe of eve from a conceptual point of origin.

Now comes a fresh approach, you now want to be able to reverse engineer the timeline. You now want to be able to create elite characters from fragments of time. The convergeance of multiple time streams to manipulate this creation at speed.

The legacy approach has a one off monetary payement, the Hybrid need feeding to progress its ever increasing need for time.


we've been through this. when a character trains a skill doesn't affect anything.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#3120 - 2015-10-18 14:19:08 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Perception vs reality, surely you can't deny that despite it not being true, many new player and plenty of older player in this very thread perceive a need for skillpoints.
The only possible outcome of a mechanic that converts SP to ISK and viceversa, is the devaluation of people's perception of SP.

As long as SP was non-marketable and non-acquirable except by waiting days, weeks, months, it's value was 'HUGE'.

Now it will be 0.8 ISK per SP, or less. No matter what, putting a price on something that was price-less, devalues it.

People will start thinking: do I need 2 mil SP this month, or should I buy and fit a faction battleship instead?

You really can't imagine that breaking a hugely desirable commodity such as skillpoints into semi affordable chunks will make them seem like a must have for new guys ?

You know cocaine was never a massive issue in poor neighborhoods until it was re-marketed as cheaper crack rock Lol