These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Dave Stark
#2521 - 2015-10-17 15:48:12 UTC
Eschin wrote:
What are you saying really this is completely ok or the game is already pay to win?


having sp is hardly "winning".

the fact that you can already sell one set of SP and buy another set of SP via the character bazzar... yes, i'm saying this new idea is completely ok. it's not like this idea is new to eve.
Bloody2k
SKULL AND B0NES
#2522 - 2015-10-17 16:02:24 UTC
CCP must bring (even against their own will), because investors exert massive pressure such changes.

One is reminded of "microtransaction-gate" in 2011

Investors EVE is ultimately matter. If they will find another cash cow invested precisely there. Whether EVE is then destroyed.
Eschin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2523 - 2015-10-17 16:02:25 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Eschin wrote:
What are you saying really this is completely ok or the game is already pay to win?


having sp is hardly "winning".

the fact that you can already sell one set of SP and buy another set of SP via the character bazzar... yes, i'm saying this new idea is completely ok. it's not like this idea is new to eve.



There is more to it than that.... a character's name and reputation now becomes moot because they are just shells housing SP... a character should be an analogue to somebody a real person not just a mix of skills that can be bought and sold. It cheapens Eve.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#2524 - 2015-10-17 16:09:22 UTC
Eschin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Eschin wrote:
What are you saying really this is completely ok or the game is already pay to win?


having sp is hardly "winning".

the fact that you can already sell one set of SP and buy another set of SP via the character bazzar... yes, i'm saying this new idea is completely ok. it's not like this idea is new to eve.



There is more to it than that.... a character's name and reputation now becomes moot because they are just shells housing SP... a character should be an analogue to somebody a real person not just a mix of skills that can be bought and sold. It cheapens Eve.
Why do people keep blathering about reputation?

In all of EVE history, maybe a hundred pilots have any reputation of note and I'm pretty sure they won't be breaking down their characters any time soon.

Can we just put that tired excuse to bed now? It's getting really redundant.

Mr Epeen Cool
Dave Stark
#2525 - 2015-10-17 16:10:35 UTC
Eschin wrote:
There is more to it than that.... a character's name and reputation now becomes moot because they are just shells housing SP... a character should be an analogue to somebody a real person not just a mix of skills that can be bought and sold. It cheapens Eve.


just like a ship is a shell housing a pod. if my ship's slow i'll buy a faster one. if my pilot can't fly that faster one i'll buy one that can.

it's a nice romantic idea that that "history should matter" but - it doesn't. the history of a person matters, the history of a specific character doesn't. as soon as you show some one the character sale thread that character's history is pretty much void.

this idea doesn't cheapen eve - eve is already that cheap.
Eschin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2526 - 2015-10-17 16:16:52 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Eschin wrote:
There is more to it than that.... a character's name and reputation now becomes moot because they are just shells housing SP... a character should be an analogue to somebody a real person not just a mix of skills that can be bought and sold. It cheapens Eve.


just like a ship is a shell housing a pod. if my ship's slow i'll buy a faster one. if my pilot can't fly that faster one i'll buy one that can.

it's a nice romantic idea that that "history should matter" but - it doesn't. the history of a person matters, the history of a specific character doesn't. as soon as you show some one the character sale thread that character's history is pretty much void.

this idea doesn't cheapen eve - eve is already that cheap.



How do you follow the history of the person if you can't follow his shell, because he just guts it after each major scam. I guess the honest players would be against this. All of the scammers rejoice!
Dave Stark
#2527 - 2015-10-17 16:20:14 UTC
Eschin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Eschin wrote:
There is more to it than that.... a character's name and reputation now becomes moot because they are just shells housing SP... a character should be an analogue to somebody a real person not just a mix of skills that can be bought and sold. It cheapens Eve.


just like a ship is a shell housing a pod. if my ship's slow i'll buy a faster one. if my pilot can't fly that faster one i'll buy one that can.

it's a nice romantic idea that that "history should matter" but - it doesn't. the history of a person matters, the history of a specific character doesn't. as soon as you show some one the character sale thread that character's history is pretty much void.

this idea doesn't cheapen eve - eve is already that cheap.



How do you follow the history of the person if you can't follow his shell, because he just guts it after each major scam. I guess the honest players would be against this. All of the scammers rejoice!


the same way you follow the history of a person who just started.

it's no different to starting a new alt - you don't know if that person is new to eve or a 10 year vet who spun up a new character. it's not like these "problems" and "exceptions" are new.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#2528 - 2015-10-17 16:26:57 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

Daniela Doran wrote:
Enjoy it while you can cause this game isn't gonna be around that much longer for you to enjoy the cheap gains from this disastrous mistake made by CCP.

It's like we haven't heard this exact statement a million times before.



It`s like the player base did not shrink really.



It's illogical to blame the losses eve already suffered on a decision they haven't even made yet.

IMO this seems much easier to swallow than things like off grid booster alts. That is pay to win that decreases the enjoyment of the game because you need to drag an alt around while you are supposed to be having fun playing the game.


You have to train that alt also, so it's not the same. Yes OGB is broken and has been around for years buts it's not game destroying.



OGB is far worse than what ccp is suggesting here.

No you do not have to train the alt you can already buy it.

It is pay to win because you have to pay for an additional account to support your main.

And it is worse because it actually makes the game less fun because you need to drag that alt around with you like a dead weight.

It is the absolute worst type of pay to win. Buying skill points is nothing compared to this. Most of the time training is to get to level 5 and that only gives about a 5% bonus the pay to win alt is like plus 35% in everything you need.

If you want to know why the numbers are decreasing look at the cancers that are actually living in the game instead of overreacting to this.

Again the loss of numbers we have seen can not be because of this proposal which hasn't even happened yet.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2529 - 2015-10-17 16:27:37 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Eschin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Eschin wrote:
There is more to it than that.... a character's name and reputation now becomes moot because they are just shells housing SP... a character should be an analogue to somebody a real person not just a mix of skills that can be bought and sold. It cheapens Eve.


just like a ship is a shell housing a pod. if my ship's slow i'll buy a faster one. if my pilot can't fly that faster one i'll buy one that can.

it's a nice romantic idea that that "history should matter" but - it doesn't. the history of a person matters, the history of a specific character doesn't. as soon as you show some one the character sale thread that character's history is pretty much void.

this idea doesn't cheapen eve - eve is already that cheap.



How do you follow the history of the person if you can't follow his shell, because he just guts it after each major scam. I guess the honest players would be against this. All of the scammers rejoice!

There is a thing called API which allow you to check history of character with his permision. Especially from whom he recived initial money or SP injectors.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Eschin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2530 - 2015-10-17 16:27:54 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Eschin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Eschin wrote:
There is more to it than that.... a character's name and reputation now becomes moot because they are just shells housing SP... a character should be an analogue to somebody a real person not just a mix of skills that can be bought and sold. It cheapens Eve.


just like a ship is a shell housing a pod. if my ship's slow i'll buy a faster one. if my pilot can't fly that faster one i'll buy one that can.

it's a nice romantic idea that that "history should matter" but - it doesn't. the history of a person matters, the history of a specific character doesn't. as soon as you show some one the character sale thread that character's history is pretty much void.

this idea doesn't cheapen eve - eve is already that cheap.



How do you follow the history of the person if you can't follow his shell, because he just guts it after each major scam. I guess the honest players would be against this. All of the scammers rejoice!


the same way you follow the history of a person who just started.

it's no different to starting a new alt - you don't know if that person is new to eve or a 10 year vet who spun up a new character. it's not like these "problems" and "exceptions" are new.


There really are... Account API's and character sales... in the future when you have no idea where the SP came from or where it went, you really have no idea and no way to figure out, names mean nothing. Reputation is the only deterrent you have really against scamming in Eve. Who thinks we need more folks gaming the system or more scammers in Eve?
Karin Yang
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2531 - 2015-10-17 16:30:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Karin Yang
Eschin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Eschin wrote:
There is more to it than that.... a character's name and reputation now becomes moot because they are just shells housing SP... a character should be an analogue to somebody a real person not just a mix of skills that can be bought and sold. It cheapens Eve.


just like a ship is a shell housing a pod. if my ship's slow i'll buy a faster one. if my pilot can't fly that faster one i'll buy one that can.

it's a nice romantic idea that that "history should matter" but - it doesn't. the history of a person matters, the history of a specific character doesn't. as soon as you show some one the character sale thread that character's history is pretty much void.

this idea doesn't cheapen eve - eve is already that cheap.



How do you follow the history of the person if you can't follow his shell, because he just guts it after each major scam. I guess the honest players would be against this. All of the scammers rejoice!

In eve the scenario is: someone chats with me in a channel as A, then he switches to alt B and makes a contract with me, then maybe he buy a C and form a fleet with me later. It doesn't matter which character he is using. For me it's the same. I am interact with the person, not the character. If he did something bad to me as A. I would block all of his alts.
So you see? Characters are only shells already in current eve.
Chrome Veinss
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2532 - 2015-10-17 16:34:18 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Eschin wrote:
There is more to it than that.... a character's name and reputation now becomes moot because they are just shells housing SP... a character should be an analogue to somebody a real person not just a mix of skills that can be bought and sold. It cheapens Eve.


just like a ship is a shell housing a pod. if my ship's slow i'll buy a faster one. if my pilot can't fly that faster one i'll buy one that can.

it's a nice romantic idea that that "history should matter" but - it doesn't. the history of a person matters, the history of a specific character doesn't. as soon as you show some one the character sale thread that character's history is pretty much void.

this idea doesn't cheapen eve - eve is already that cheap.


The vast majority of players care about their characters and history and whatever (this includes me, I would never sell this character or buy a character), they might even roleplay and have emotional connections to their character. On the other hand there are people with 10 accounts that one day might notice 30 forgotten plex in one of their ship's cargoholds and decide to get a yolo mcswag falcon alt because their links alt, combat scanner alt and interdictor alt aren't quite enough

For some reason, this is fine and doesn't cheapens the game at all. But me getting a 500k sp packet to get heavy missiles V a week earlier is terrible for the game and we should all cancel our subscriptions because CCP dared mention the idea
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2533 - 2015-10-17 16:37:31 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Eschin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Eschin wrote:
What are you saying really this is completely ok or the game is already pay to win?


having sp is hardly "winning".

the fact that you can already sell one set of SP and buy another set of SP via the character bazzar... yes, i'm saying this new idea is completely ok. it's not like this idea is new to eve.



There is more to it than that.... a character's name and reputation now becomes moot because they are just shells housing SP... a character should be an analogue to somebody a real person not just a mix of skills that can be bought and sold. It cheapens Eve.
Why do people keep blathering about reputation?

In all of EVE history, maybe a hundred pilots have any reputation of note and I'm pretty sure they won't be breaking down their characters any time soon.

Can we just put that tired excuse to bed now? It's getting really redundant.

Mr Epeen Cool
Exactly...

Reputation is a meaningless joke, only looked at by other EVE players if anyone. I swear some people forget this is nothing more than a bloody game...
Dave Stark
#2534 - 2015-10-17 16:39:34 UTC
Eschin wrote:
There really are... Account API's and character sales... in the future when you have no idea where the SP came from or where it went, you really have no idea and no way to figure out, names mean nothing. Reputation is the only deterrent you have really against scamming in Eve. Who thinks we need more folks gaming the system or more scammers in Eve?


you have no idea where the isk came from for a character transfer if they don't want you to know. they can drop stuff in space that can be sold for isk to use.

regardless - none of the issues you've raised are new to the is suggestion.
Josef Djugashvilis
#2535 - 2015-10-17 16:44:09 UTC
Dear Mr Dave Stark, I am most impressed with your campaiging fervour.

Fight the good fight, my dear chap.

This is not a signature.
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2536 - 2015-10-17 16:51:31 UTC
Quote:
For some reason, this is fine and doesn't cheapens the game at all. But me getting a 500k sp packet to get heavy missiles V a week earlier is terrible for the game and we should all cancel our subscriptions because CCP dared mention the idea


Terrible how ? It puts you on more equal grounds with the rest.

SP and your "skill" portfolio doesn't measure any actual skill in this game. Your head (learning, practicing) and dedication does.


Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl
Eschin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2537 - 2015-10-17 16:56:31 UTC
We're not talking absolutes here.

Yes, you can get the SP you want now by buying it. So it should be a lot EASIER because it's already currently possible?

Scamming is possible, and it's possible to avoid a bad rap, so let's make it EASIER to avoid one!

There are barriers to entry on what you're saying, we're only after solving a personal problem, tweaking our char a little avoiding wasted SP on our own char or obsolete SP or SP that no longer makes sense for its progression, you're campaigning for changing the whole paradigm for how SP is perceived and used, because Eve is already cheap. So let's make it CHEAPER!

If only we had an Eve Easy button with a credit card slot in it that spammed the message YOU WIN for each transaction.
Eschin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2538 - 2015-10-17 17:02:58 UTC
Why should anything require effort? Instant gratification!
Karin Yang
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2539 - 2015-10-17 17:04:57 UTC
Eschin wrote:
We're not talking absolutes here.

Yes, you can get the SP you want now by buying it. So it should be a lot EASIER because it's already currently possible?

Scamming is possible, and it's possible to avoid a bad rap, so let's make it EASIER to avoid one!

There are barriers to entry on what you're saying, we're only after solving a personal problem, tweaking our char a little avoiding wasted SP on our own char or obsolete SP or SP that no longer makes sense for its progression, you're campaigning for changing the whole paradigm for how SP is perceived and used, because Eve is already cheap. So let's make it CHEAPER!

If only we had an Eve Easy button with a credit card slot in it that spammed the message YOU WIN for each transaction.

Because buy one character from bazaar is much cheaper (in ISK) than trans skill into another, this change does not make it cheaper or easier for scammer at all. Buying character is still the only reasonable choice for them.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2540 - 2015-10-17 17:09:16 UTC
Soltys wrote:
Quote:
For some reason, this is fine and doesn't cheapens the game at all. But me getting a 500k sp packet to get heavy missiles V a week earlier is terrible for the game and we should all cancel our subscriptions because CCP dared mention the idea


Terrible how ? It puts you on more equal grounds with the rest.

SP and your "skill" portfolio doesn't measure any actual skill in this game. Your head (learning, practicing) and dedication does.




If there is no correlation between SP's and in game skill then why would you need to be instantly boosted by the need for in game purchasing of skillpoints ??

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”