These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#2301 - 2015-10-17 01:45:39 UTC
Kilcairdin wrote:
After a bad experience with a pay to win game I joined Eve over a year ago because it was a subscription only game. I understand the bizarre was out there, but it is a limited resource, difficult to use and in place to limit out of game corruption. What is proposed is nothing less than a significant step toward pay to win and all the problems associated with that. My expectation is that this will drive more players away from Eve than it will attract over the long term. I have no interest in moving toward a pay to win game even though this scheme could help my 25 million skill point character with skill points. Just say no.



I agree completely. If CCP goes ahead with this scheme, then me and my 12 accounts will disappear from eve forever.
Karin Yang
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2302 - 2015-10-17 01:49:00 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Kilcairdin wrote:
After a bad experience with a pay to win game I joined Eve over a year ago because it was a subscription only game. I understand the bizarre was out there, but it is a limited resource, difficult to use and in place to limit out of game corruption. What is proposed is nothing less than a significant step toward pay to win and all the problems associated with that. My expectation is that this will drive more players away from Eve than it will attract over the long term. I have no interest in moving toward a pay to win game even though this scheme could help my 25 million skill point character with skill points. Just say no.



I agree completely. If CCP goes ahead with this scheme, then me and my 12 accounts will disappear from eve forever.

I think that encouraging people to play a game with 12 accounts is not the right thing to do.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2303 - 2015-10-17 01:49:34 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
You need a crowd to validate your ego and stroke you when someone snaps back. I don't. And I know exactly how to rile people with it.

Is that how it is?

Actually I validate myself with the SP count of my alts which don't train anymore.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2304 - 2015-10-17 01:51:27 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
And this time (the 1,000,001th time) it's real. Something like this acts as cancer. You won't notice the difference right away and in fact it would seem like the PCU has skyrocketed once it hits TQ. But this burst in PCU activity would only be temporary until the cancer begins to take effect. From then onward, Eve would begin to decay until it eventually becomes a corpse.

Quite a story to tell to those who came after. Make sure you screenshot your post for the children who will grow up post-EVE

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#2305 - 2015-10-17 01:59:24 UTC
Titus Cole Dooley wrote:
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:
Titus Cole Dooley wrote:
If this makes it to TQ im done. My time in EVE will have been wasted.


What about the cool things you saw? The people you met? The friends you made? The things you experienced? The wanderlust of exploring space!

I know people jokingly call this game Skill Queues Online, but that's ridiculous! Now that the end of the skill queue tirany is at an end, we can't just throw our arms and quit!

My EVE friends and I will all go play Farm Sim 2015 if this makes it to TQ.

I will not support CCP in this "new player experience" trash that is making the game too easy. At this rate new players will start out with 40 mil SP and 10 bil isk. CCP is forgetting what got them here. Some people like hard games, it sets us apart from other gamers.


Yeah, some people like hard games and let's not make this game too easy. Otherwise we'll go play Farming Sim 2015 and then 2016. We're hardcore bro. We don't use autopilot for our tractors. Nor do we allow ourselves to suckle from the teet of Silage, which we know is just too OP for making dolla dolla in Farming Sim.

Yeah, I dig on Farming Sim too. You ever look for neutrals when you go into another field? Or wish asteroid belts needed to be cultivated like a corn field? I don't like how it assumes my character just knows how to pilot the biggest tractors and combines in the game just because I can afford to buy them. Farming sim should force me to train something. But yeah.
thebarry
7-2 Ronin
#2306 - 2015-10-17 01:59:57 UTC
Why are all these nerds talking about pay2win? You can buy characters right now through the bazaar, if that's ok then whytf isn't buying sp ok too? I have 20m I'd happily sell off...I think this is a fine idea.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#2307 - 2015-10-17 02:01:01 UTC
This would make disposable characters which are reasonably proficient at some specialized thing-mining, ganking, maybe hauling. It's not something I'd do right away.

Lots of options. Set up several accounts and train all the pilots on them, funnel all the skills into one, or use it as a really inefficient late-game respec.

It's p2w. The only time you want to do that is if you want to pretty much admit EVE is dying, cause p2w games have this habit of not lasting 10+ years.

A signature :o
Marsha Mallow
#2308 - 2015-10-17 02:03:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Marsha Mallow
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Actually I validate myself with the SP count of my alts which don't train anymore.

When you recycle those and sod off to another game where you can sit for over a decade whinging and griping - can I have your SP?

I always really enjoyed the Book of Revelation tbh, but esoteric writing isn't for everyone.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
thebarry
7-2 Ronin
#2309 - 2015-10-17 02:04:23 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Kilcairdin wrote:
After a bad experience with a pay to win game I joined Eve over a year ago because it was a subscription only game. I understand the bizarre was out there, but it is a limited resource, difficult to use and in place to limit out of game corruption. What is proposed is nothing less than a significant step toward pay to win and all the problems associated with that. My expectation is that this will drive more players away from Eve than it will attract over the long term. I have no interest in moving toward a pay to win game even though this scheme could help my 25 million skill point character with skill points. Just say no.



I agree completely. If CCP goes ahead with this scheme, then me and my 12 accounts will disappear from eve forever.



I'll have to add 12 accounts if this goes through, sup?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2310 - 2015-10-17 02:11:21 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Actually I validate myself with the SP count of my alts which don't train anymore.

When you recycle those and sod off to another game where you can sit for over a decade whinging and griping - can I have your SP?

I always really enjoyed the Book of Revelation tbh, but esoteric writing isn't for everyone.

I actually intend to give SP to Imperium newbies.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#2311 - 2015-10-17 02:16:11 UTC
Joseph Dewald wrote:
So what I'm hearing is that training is now almost worthless and instead I should be grinding for isk? Not a fan of this idea. If you really want to implement some sort of respec idea, make it so that you can't sell the sp and can only apply them to your own character.


Exactly what I thought this was at first until I went back for another re read. To my dumbfounded horror, it was the worst idea CCP has ever devised in the history of eve.
Marsha Mallow
#2312 - 2015-10-17 02:19:02 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
I actually intend to give SP to Imperium newbies.

That's a disgusting sentiment. I feel personally violated that you even had the cheek to try to pretend that you're a likeable goonnoobscrub with anything relevant to contribute. My next poop will be named after you. Might post it through my annoying neighbours door with a fatbee label on and then pretend to be sympathetic and outraged. Or not, seems a lot of effort.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#2313 - 2015-10-17 02:20:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
thebarry wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Kilcairdin wrote:
After a bad experience with a pay to win game I joined Eve over a year ago because it was a subscription only game. I understand the bizarre was out there, but it is a limited resource, difficult to use and in place to limit out of game corruption. What is proposed is nothing less than a significant step toward pay to win and all the problems associated with that. My expectation is that this will drive more players away from Eve than it will attract over the long term. I have no interest in moving toward a pay to win game even though this scheme could help my 25 million skill point character with skill points. Just say no.



I agree completely. If CCP goes ahead with this scheme, then me and my 12 accounts will disappear from eve forever.



I'll have to add 12 accounts if this goes through, sup?


Then you and the 100 others that are left can have fun roaming null in Titans with no fear of reprisal.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#2314 - 2015-10-17 02:27:32 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Actually I validate myself with the SP count of my alts which don't train anymore.

When you recycle those and sod off to another game where you can sit for over a decade whinging and griping - can I have your SP?

I always really enjoyed the Book of Revelation tbh, but esoteric writing isn't for everyone.

I actually intend to give SP to Imperium newbies.


If you do that eve will die. They will miss out on the woooh 3 weeks until I can fly a shitfit t1 frigate feeling and immediately rage quit the game.

don't say you haven't been warned
Brometheus Down
Doomheim
#2315 - 2015-10-17 02:30:06 UTC
I think this is a great idea for player retention in general, thumbs up for that.

Two points of contention for me:

A) if such I system were ever implemented I am STRONGLY opposed to penalizing older players for obvious reasons. You guys may want to keep new players in the game, that's great, but remember who has been keeping you guys going for all these years. If new bros get 500,000 SP for their troubles so to should vets

B) Rise mentioned how he hated having to deal with the name and reputation of players purchased on the Bazaar but didn't take this any further...or did I miss something? Let us change the name of purchased players, for the love of the divine!...this, more than any 'wasted SP', is the dominant source of contempt when 'living' with a purchased characters. I'd much rather live with a couple million wasted SP if I felt an actual connection of mine own to the purchased character.

Alucard Lugosi
4S Corporation
The Initiative.
#2316 - 2015-10-17 02:33:22 UTC
Another new and interesting way to try to get rid of the few remaining players left playing this game!

Hats off to CCP RISE, this is probably the most dumb idea ever written down.

I salute the CCP team for constantly striving to out do each other in the generation of stupid ideas.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#2317 - 2015-10-17 02:33:30 UTC
Karin Yang wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Kilcairdin wrote:
After a bad experience with a pay to win game I joined Eve over a year ago because it was a subscription only game. I understand the bizarre was out there, but it is a limited resource, difficult to use and in place to limit out of game corruption. What is proposed is nothing less than a significant step toward pay to win and all the problems associated with that. My expectation is that this will drive more players away from Eve than it will attract over the long term. I have no interest in moving toward a pay to win game even though this scheme could help my 25 million skill point character with skill points. Just say no.



I agree completely. If CCP goes ahead with this scheme, then me and my 12 accounts will disappear from eve forever.

I think that encouraging people to play a game with 12 accounts is not the right thing to do.


I'm not, that's just me cause I like multi-boxing and having multiple options in case I make a mistake in my training. I've trained all my chars from the ground up, no short cuts. It was one of the greatest feature I liked about eve because if gave the alluring experience of watching your characters grow and mature. With the greatest feature of eve made into comedy, the game is starting to feel fake.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#2318 - 2015-10-17 02:35:23 UTC
Karin Yang
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2319 - 2015-10-17 02:49:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Karin Yang
Daniela Doran wrote:
Karin Yang wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Kilcairdin wrote:
After a bad experience with a pay to win game I joined Eve over a year ago because it was a subscription only game. I understand the bizarre was out there, but it is a limited resource, difficult to use and in place to limit out of game corruption. What is proposed is nothing less than a significant step toward pay to win and all the problems associated with that. My expectation is that this will drive more players away from Eve than it will attract over the long term. I have no interest in moving toward a pay to win game even though this scheme could help my 25 million skill point character with skill points. Just say no.



I agree completely. If CCP goes ahead with this scheme, then me and my 12 accounts will disappear from eve forever.

I think that encouraging people to play a game with 12 accounts is not the right thing to do.


I'm not, that's just me cause I like multi-boxing and having multiple options in case I make a mistake in my training. I've trained all my chars from the ground up, no short cuts. It was one of the greatest feature I liked about eve because if gave the alluring experience of watching your characters grow and mature. With the greatest feature of eve made into comedy, the game is starting to feel fake.

I mean that the current training system is encouraging people to have multiple accounts, because people cannot play interesting features of this game well with one account alone and also because people can gain huge benefits from this. People are kept from good designs because of lacking of SP. So they have only have two choice, have multiple accounts, or waits months and years. But most of them choose to quit.
Edit:
You have 12 accounts, so I believe you actually do not know the hard feelings of those normal players (with one account) when they find they are interested in both mining and combat, or sth else. For you, you can just create the 13rd account if you happened to be interested in sth, but that's not the way the game is designed. Game should be enjoyable even with one account.
Morihei Akachi
Doomheim
#2320 - 2015-10-17 02:50:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Morihei Akachi
Looking back through bits of this thread and the ones at /r/eve, I get the impression that there’s this huge disconnect between the advocates and the opponents of this idea. I’ll confess that I genuinely don’t understand what is meant to be so attractive about skipping the training for a battleship—to take Rise’s example from his blog—and just buying a character. My sense is that “character” means no more than “chess piece” in that scenario. The way you swap a pawn out for a queen the moment the opportunity presents itself.

Pawns, of course, don't have histories. They don’t make mistakes and learn from them, they don’t have stories one could tell. They’re just pieces on a board. Weapons to be used against an opponent. If a weapon is not good enough, you swap it out for a better one. I’m trying to grasp what I find so depressing about this approach, and it has to do with this notion of treating a character merely as a tool that you buy or sell or dismantle for parts / skill points. History, story, narrative within the world we call New Eden becomes completely superfluous at that moment. The only goal is pawning the other guy and total control over how that can be made to happen. Doesn’t Rise say that that is meant to be “Eve’s core design”: “player control above all else”? If that is true, there should be no constraints at all. Instant god-mode for everyone. Surely that’s the logic of this position.

But I think Rise is wrong: “player control above all else” is not the core design of Eve. I don’t think anyone (apart from him, apparently) thinks this. The challenge of Eve lies in there not being total control, in there being barriers and hindrances that force you to take a different path from the one you would have taken at first glance if all roads had lain open. I see considerable value in that. It makes Eve into a world that can surprise you, rather than just another virtual arena where the instant gratification crowd can live out its monotonous domination fantasies. (Perhaps that was a little uncharitable. But I really don’t get it.)

Hilmar tells a story—a little too often, maybe—about a mining cruiser back in the day. You’ve probably heard this. He’s borrowed it from someone else in order to go mining and it gets blown up. He’s unhappy, because his character doesn’t have the ISK to replace it. And then he thinks, hey, I’m the CEO of CCP, I could just wave a magic wand and make a cruiser, right? But he doesn’t. He mines for a whole week to get the cash together to buy a new cruiser on the market. Why? Because short-cutting the process would have entailed the admission that none of it was real.

That was the original vision of New Eden. A world where you can’t just dev hack or buy your way out of your biography. Because it’s real.

People are going to disagree with this violently and I’m fine with that. This is just my take on it, and an attempt to clarify for myself a little better why I find the idea of buying and selling a character’s past so disheartening.

"Enduring", "restrained" and "ample" as designations for starship components are foreign to the genre of high-tech science fiction and don’t belong in Eve Online. (And as for “scoped” …)