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[December] Balance Smorgasbord

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Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#61 - 2015-10-16 18:53:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Thanatos Marathon
Just off the top of my head:

Torm is baller, doesn't need/warrant a buff. Don't balance based purely off usage stats please.
Rifter and slasher won't be total poop, yay!
Barghest is already arguably OP, these changes push it well into OP zone.
Orthrus is baller due to point range and speed/agility, on top of RLMLs, minor DPS reduction doesn't change that. Might want to consider nocking 5m/s off as well

edit: No nerf to the garmur? Are you happy with where it is at compared to other frigs?

JUSTK is recruiting
Arcos Vandymion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2015-10-16 18:59:51 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Arcos Vandymion wrote:

*(because it'll be a completely different module noone is likely to use because it's even more fringe than TD which is eshewed in favour of damps or jams usually because TDs don't affect missiles)


Guess you missed the part where they are introducing Missile Disruptors this winter. Also, kinetic lock on missiles is AIDS.
You talking about this part of my statement that you quoted?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#63 - 2015-10-16 19:00:36 UTC
Garrett Osinov wrote:
Can I have my skill points back, which I invested in Gila / Orthurus ?

Gila was an exellent PvE ship !

Why the hell are u ruining ppls game ??? I makes sense to me, if you are changing the ships make a refund for those ships, for those skills !!!


The Gila still is an excellent PVP ship. It just does 35 less DPS if you fit three Drone Damage Amplifier II's instead of four.

This is hardly ruining the game for anyone.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#64 - 2015-10-16 19:07:49 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Worm and Gila:
Two of the most dominant ships in their classes, we're going to tone them down a bit by bringing their slot numbers in line with most other drone ships. These represent fairly significant nerfs but we feel the ships remain among the strongest in their classes. Currently we have decided to leave the Rattlesnake alone, partially as it's not as dominant in its class as the smaller ships. However we won't rule out future changes.
  • Worm: -1 Lowslot, -20 CPU
  • Gila: -1 Lowslot, -20 CPU
    • The rattlesnake should have the same treatement. It is an incredibly powerful PvP ship. It probably is seeing less use due to some undesirable traits for large scale fleet use, although in a solo or small gang situation it has overwhelming dps and application when fitted with rapid heavy missiles.

    Also did you forget the Garmur?

    I like the rest of the changes though, very nice work.
    Garrett Osinov
    Doomheim
    #65 - 2015-10-16 19:11:40 UTC
    FT Diomedes wrote:
    Garrett Osinov wrote:
    Can I have my skill points back, which I invested in Gila / Orthurus ?

    Gila was an exellent PvE ship !

    Why the hell are u ruining ppls game ??? I makes sense to me, if you are changing the ships make a refund for those ships, for those skills !!!


    The Gila still is an excellent PVP ship. It just does 35 less DPS if you fit three Drone Damage Amplifier II's instead of four.

    This is hardly ruining the game for anyone.


    3 Damage mods + damage control now, after the nerf it will be 2 damage mods + damage control or 3 damage mods.
    FT Diomedes
    The Graduates
    #66 - 2015-10-16 19:14:26 UTC
    Esnaelc Sin'led wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    I know that many people will be unhappy that we're not nerfing the Orthrus harder at this time, but we feel that especially combined with the addition of the missile disruptors we are best served by making this change (which is quite significant by most standards) and observing the results before moving further.


    What ?
    Where ?
    When ?
    How ?
    Moooooooore about that !!!!!


    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=449197&find=unread

    CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

    Stitch Kaneland
    The Tuskers
    The Tuskers Co.
    #67 - 2015-10-16 19:16:03 UTC
    Fozzie,

    Isnt the Muninn needing a balance revisit as well. I see you tweaked the sac, but no muninn? As it stands the Muninn is simply outclassed by the fleet hurricane (which was a good buff to the HFI mind you) in every situation. Fleet cane is comparable in price, insures about the same, has considerably more alpha, comparable range more tracking and more tank in armor/shield fleet config.

    Would it be terrible to give minmatar a good brawler that isnt the sleip? Drop a turret off the muninn, increase the damage bonus, and add a mid.

    Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

    Make the Muninn great again!
    Lidia Caderu
    Brave Newbies Inc.
    Brave Collective
    #68 - 2015-10-16 19:27:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lidia Caderu
    Why just not to increase Punisher's cap? And also give a bit of everything, but excapt of drones ofc. Now its bit reatrded even with additional low slot.

    Also I would give more CPU to Rifter and Slasher than PG, especially for slasher. At least +10 CPU.
    Valkin Mordirc
    #69 - 2015-10-16 19:27:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
    EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeee


    That Barghest is going to be fuckin Nasty,


    Also digging the buffs on the Nav-Os and Hookbill.


    Arty Rifters and slashers WOOT, and Arty Firetails with tracking bonus is going to be dank.

    And for the Tristian being able to project as far as it can, while being able to kite half the things out there, the Nerf is probably a good idea.

    AND the Sac gets a drone bay now! Woo! Finally it can break 500dps. XD


    Also although I love the Orthrus, Gila and Worm. I'd have to say a nerf is in order. -20 CPU though and -1 low though is OMGWTFBBQ though for the Worm anyways. But I suppose like you said nothing is set in stone. So it can be changed later if things seem to harsh.

    Though the Gila will still be doing around 800 with rage and Tech2 Hammers. With Aug Hammers Heated it'll be doing 900. With HAMs anyways.


    Maybe a slight drop in it's Raw Shield might help it become more balance because honestly so far it seems still fairly OP. 800DPS average depending on fit, 65k buffer tank and 1800m/s is still pretty savage for a cruiser, although the cap life on the Gila with a Micro isn't great.

    I dunno we'll see I guess.


    Regardless Love it.
    #DeleteTheWeak
    Richard Torvel
    Torvel Electric Power Company
    #70 - 2015-10-16 19:28:42 UTC
    Keep your hands away from my rattlesnake Shocked
    It's only one of few ships which i like + Iinvest a bit of sp in it. Cry
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #71 - 2015-10-16 19:31:18 UTC
    Lidia Caderu wrote:
    Why just not to increase Punisher's cap? And also give a bit of everything, but excapt of drones ofc. Now its bit reatrded even with additional low slot.


    indeed im sure 90% of people want no laser cap bonuses if possible, less turrets, better mid slot layouts and much better cap regen compared too the other 3 races.

    on punisher i suggest
    -1 high
    +1 lowslot
    keep current damage bonus
    increase mass/speed/agility
    - much higher cap regen

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    ValentinaDLM
    SoE Roughriders
    Electus Matari
    #72 - 2015-10-16 19:35:26 UTC
    Rifter could use a bit more, like why not +10 CPU +5 PG at least?
    Murkar Omaristos
    The Alabaster Albatross
    Unreasonable Bastards
    #73 - 2015-10-16 19:38:25 UTC
    RIP orthrus/gila, you were fun until fozzie bashed your brains in with the nerf bat.
    Valkin Mordirc
    #74 - 2015-10-16 19:40:38 UTC
    Murkar Omaristos wrote:
    RIP orthrus/gila, you were fun until fozzie bashed your brains in with the nerf bat.



    The Gila will live on. It's not that much of a damage nerf to it. Passive fit Gila's take a huge it though, but PvP wise they are still pretty much going strong. I can probably see another nerf its future.


    Not to sure about the Worm though.
    #DeleteTheWeak
    epicurus ataraxia
    Illusion of Solitude.
    Illusion of Solitude
    #75 - 2015-10-16 19:42:54 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
    FT Diomedes wrote:
    Garrett Osinov wrote:
    Can I have my skill points back, which I invested in Gila / Orthurus ?

    Gila was an exellent PvE ship !

    Why the hell are u ruining ppls game ??? I makes sense to me, if you are changing the ships make a refund for those ships, for those skills !!!


    The Gila still is an excellent PVP ship. It just does 35 less DPS if you fit three Drone Damage Amplifier II's instead of four.

    This is hardly ruining the game for anyone.



    Quite right, the Gila will still be an excellent PVP ship with either a little less damage, or a little less tank.

    However PVP is not the only use for this ship, It is widely used with a passive tank in cap hostile environments.
    Removing a low effectively makes this ship sub-effective in this role. Particuarly in hostile PVE environments with a strong chance of involuntary PVP.

    If however a missile launcher was removed, it would affect PVP and PVE equally without destroying the PVE role.

    Would that not be better?

    There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #76 - 2015-10-16 19:46:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
    epicurus ataraxia wrote:
    FT Diomedes wrote:
    Garrett Osinov wrote:
    Can I have my skill points back, which I invested in Gila / Orthurus ?

    Gila was an exellent PvE ship !

    Why the hell are u ruining ppls game ??? I makes sense to me, if you are changing the ships make a refund for those ships, for those skills !!!


    The Gila still is an excellent PVP ship. It just does 35 less DPS if you fit three Drone Damage Amplifier II's instead of four.

    This is hardly ruining the game for anyone.



    Quite right, the Gila will still be an excellent PVP ship with either a little less damage, or a little less tank.

    However PVP is not the only use for this ship, It is widely used with a passive tank in cap hostile environments.
    Removing a low effectively makes this ship sub-effective in this role. Particuarly in hostile PVE environments with a strong chance of PVP.

    If however a missile launcher was removed, it would affect PVP and PVE equally without destroying the PVE role.

    Would that not be better?


    i could see a launcher aswell as the -1 highslot working as an alternative to -1 lowslot it might end up with less dps mind, especially as one less launcher too OH.

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    Arya Regnar
    Darwins Right Hand
    #77 - 2015-10-16 19:51:12 UTC
    Maybe give gila some extra passive shield regen to make passive tanks viable, I don't use them but 3 lowslot gilas can no longer attain viable passive tanks

    EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
    Valkin Mordirc
    #78 - 2015-10-16 19:53:48 UTC
    Also as a note, I'm really surprised the Garmur wasn't on this list. It's probably the most popular faction frig out there right now with good reason.


    I know Zkill and looking at it's numbers can be deceiving sometimes but

    Total kills
    Tristan:2975
    Fed Navy Comet::2964
    Garmur: 2,525
    Daredevil: 1885
    Dram: 1506
    Worm 1444


    Now we all know the Worm is OP. And We can probably agree the Daredevil and Dram are in pretty good place. But we can also say the Tristan in somewhat OP, but it's cheap as balls, and the Fed Navy is about the same.


    We can also say the Garmur is a cancer as with links and sebo can point you out in ridiculous ranges.
    #DeleteTheWeak
    epicurus ataraxia
    Illusion of Solitude.
    Illusion of Solitude
    #79 - 2015-10-16 19:53:57 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
    Harvey James wrote:
    epicurus ataraxia wrote:
    FT Diomedes wrote:
    Garrett Osinov wrote:
    Can I have my skill points back, which I invested in Gila / Orthurus ?

    Gila was an exellent PvE ship !

    Why the hell are u ruining ppls game ??? I makes sense to me, if you are changing the ships make a refund for those ships, for those skills !!!


    The Gila still is an excellent PVP ship. It just does 35 less DPS if you fit three Drone Damage Amplifier II's instead of four.

    This is hardly ruining the game for anyone.



    Quite right, the Gila will still be an excellent PVP ship with either a little less damage, or a little less tank.

    However PVP is not the only use for this ship, It is widely used with a passive tank in cap hostile environments.
    Removing a low effectively makes this ship sub-effective in this role. Particuarly in hostile PVE environments with a strong chance of PVP.

    If however a missile launcher was removed, it would affect PVP and PVE equally without destroying the PVE role.

    Would that not be better?


    i could see a launcher aswell as the -1 highslot working as an alternative to -1 lowslot it might end up with less dps mind, especially as one less launcher too OH.


    Agreed, losing a launcher is not insignificant, but I believe will provide the balance point without having to revisit it for another nerf.
    It also balances both PVP and PVE needs effectively and does not retire the Gila as a Cap warfare resistant PVE ship. Loss of a launchers damage can be handled, loss of a low slot changes it's available roles completely.
    The Gila is not overpowered for PVE, but one must accept compromises, where it is in PVP, I would trust that a Good compromise, where PVP is brought down to healthy levels, Can still Allow the ship to function in the areas where it is a reasonable choice for PVE

    There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
    ArmyOfMe
    Stay Frosty.
    A Band Apart.
    #80 - 2015-10-16 19:56:16 UTC
    I dont really see enough worms and gilas around to say if they should be nerfed or not. However, could you please look into the muninn, as it has issues on all levels atm, and cant compete with other hac's in any way. It can snipe, but the pg required for artys make it impossible to make a good setup (something i can live with, as the tornado is better anyways). But i would really love to see the Muninn being able to compete up close and personal with ac's, which it just cant atm.

    Other then that, i like the changes, and love the changes to the sac.

    GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.