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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Dave Stark
#2001 - 2015-10-16 17:17:51 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:

I`d like eve pen again and some of the posters :)

I have no idea about the costs about the skins, i probably opened aur store when they started it, laughed on it and closed it. Make up does not add anything in game experience to me.

I do not have anything against anything what will really benefit the game. If CCP wants, give every new player 10-20-50 mil sp straight away. I do thing it is wrong approach but if that would be what is needed to keep the game healthy then be it.

I have the problem with introduction of this system which is determined to fail while changing game fundamentals which will cause a lot of unhappy customers, meaning even less players. And I do not think micro transactions are the model which can work properly in eve. It would change the game too much, in the wrong direction.


i've seen the isk prices of some of the skins - assuming that's relative to the cost of aur/plex/whatever - they're hilariously expensive. like half a plex for a red caracal or something outrageous.

to be honest i do wonder who's actually going to find this the most useful other than new players with more irl currency than they know what to do with. the conversion rate for high sp players is terrible, and the price for non-credit card warrior new players will be too high to really benefit from when they're low sp.

to be honest eve-o is probably the most negative place about this change. reddit was pretty ok with it other than the odd few nay-sayers when the blog first appeared.

I like the subscription model too, to be honest. you know exactly where you stand with that.
Altessa Post
Midnight special super sexy
#2002 - 2015-10-16 17:19:09 UTC
This games used to be complex. Long term planning paid off. There were projects who required a year or more of preparation. It was a game for schemers, for people with a plan or a vision. It was really cool.

I think we do not have to discuss whether the last two years have been a success for CCP. The numbers speak for themselves. For me, this also raises the question when you will act on this.
Somehow 2012 was peak EVE: you just learned the monocle gate lesson. You felt more relaxed about game design. I shall never forget the developer at fanfest sitting on a sofa and explaining that there should be no jesus features anymore. And that there is no right way or wrong way to play EVE. Anything goes. CCP is supposed to enable players so that they can find their own niche in the sandbox.

And now, you seek again salvation in drastic new features instead of developing what you have?
What happened? Why do we have to learn the same lessons again?

tl,dr> the idea is embarrassingly bad


On the internet, you can be whatever you want to be. It is amazing that so many people chose to be stupid.
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#2003 - 2015-10-16 17:22:30 UTC
Now, that i have calmed down from the initial shock, i thought about this whole concept and i wonder...
Why is this any different from the current character bazaar? I mean:
Quote:
You can spend real money on PLEX, cash that in for isk and buy a character from the Bazaar. You will now have a 100mil SP character in a matter of hours.

Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2004 - 2015-10-16 17:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Jill Xelitras wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Laodell wrote:
When I joined Eve everyone had the same start on life. We were all equal to build our empire. Trading SP destroys that

When I joined Eve(about 25 days ago) most of players has much more SP than me and I have no chance at all to catch them what ever I do.


But do you prefer that the players who started the same day as you have the same path as you

or

do you want a system where you can jump 20 paces ahead and still be overtaken by someone with deeper pockets.


I don't mind because his new shiny ship will be annihilated by more skillfull player in true meaning of this words.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Dark Rai
Forsaken Fortress
Wrecking Machine.
#2005 - 2015-10-16 17:26:01 UTC
Thanks.

Was a nice game.

Evil
Zenax Cordeaux
Ohana Hale
#2006 - 2015-10-16 17:26:03 UTC
The only barrier for a new player to have a high spec character is money. so...
Do away with SP all together. I would have 5 more accounts for an indy mining fleet if I didn't have to bother with training them. All of these arguments and the corruption implied goes away with removing SP completely.

multi chars over 8 years and over 100mil sp on them and I would give them up gladly for all lvl 5s for everyone.
I'm bored with Eve partly because of how long it would take to really move into something different.

Blowing up some shield tanked Moros fit with auto cannons would be fun anyway.

CCP still makes extra $ and the learning curve doesn't go away thus time in game continues to be truly valuable.

Consider freedom / sandbox and I think You have a big win.
Beta Maoye
#2007 - 2015-10-16 17:29:22 UTC
Bloody2k wrote:
I fear that it was not the idea of CCP. Much more, I suspect that sponsors want to increase profits.

What do you mean by sponsors? Is CCP negotiating for an IPO?
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2008 - 2015-10-16 17:29:44 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:

to be honest eve-o is probably the most negative place about this change. reddit was pretty ok with it other than the odd few nay-sayers when the blog first appeared.

.


Funny, you don't have to be a paid subscriber to post in reddit. Here, you do.

Folks who have old accts that they no longer play with may see this as an easier method to 'cash out'

By Cash out, yes, I mean RMT. Of course they would be in favour of something that would allow them to get some of their money back out of the game. Strip an old character you no longer play with and see cold hard cash in return.

I am not saying that all of reddit thinks that way but that there are ways to explain the difference in opinion across various forums.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#2009 - 2015-10-16 17:31:15 UTC
Altessa Post wrote:
This games used to be complex. Long term planning paid off. There were projects who required a year or more of preparation. It was a game for schemers, for people with a plan or a vision. It was really cool.


CCP Rise has a pvp player background. That made him an excellent choice for ship rebalancing. With old devs changing positions or leaving CCP and new ones being hired, EvE is bound to change. Sometimes for the better ,sometimes for the worse.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
Pandemic Unicorns
#2010 - 2015-10-16 17:31:48 UTC
Stalking Mantis wrote:
You learned nothing from the reasons your servers that used to have 70 to 90 thousand people on them two years ago now have 15 to 20 thousand people on them.


Eve never once had 70k-90k on, the record was 65k. Two years ago the average was 35k, now it's 22k.

These figures are also not comparable because players are no longer forced to logon daily for skill queue changes. Similarly, the isboxxer change removed a lot of alts.
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#2011 - 2015-10-16 17:35:37 UTC
xttz wrote:
Point of note that some posting here seem to have missed:

You're not buying skills for real money. Someone has to extract those skillpoints from another character first, then the fee allows the transfer. Kinda like we currently do to transfer whole characters already.

Langbaobao wrote:
This is a really bad idea. I can think of a couple ways to abuse this right off the top of my head. I urge you to reconsider, 'cause this will be a disaster if it hits the live game.

On a side note, is CCP really so strapped for cash that it needs a new cash cow?


Absolutely yes


Point of Note. PLEX for ISK is a thing... buy Plex.. Get isk or aurum or whatever they will use.. and then get SP... equal Pay for SP 20$ to Aurum to SP... Pay for SP
Saidra Whitewolf
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2012 - 2015-10-16 17:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Saidra Whitewolf
Okay, so I realize the game active subscriber count is dropping, yeah so CCP is making less money recently probably on their game... BUT, part of why this is happening is because HiSec is basically the most dangerous place in the game with all the griefing going on. So most people get tired of being fkng suicide ganked and wardecced in their first few weeks of playing and quit.

This new cash cow enterprise of selling SP will ultimately fail, because all of the bittervets will ragequit, most of the others will be turned off by the dev team, and some people will unsub. In the short term, yeah, tons of people will be buying SP. Hell, even the players whining about it will buy it, but it could mark the beginning of the end for this game in the long run.

In short, this is a money grab decision for CCP, likely because they see the game beginning to lose subscribers and it is part of their bail-out plan. I do NOT support it.
Big Lynx
#2013 - 2015-10-16 17:38:13 UTC
Basically that shows that CCP is in a conflict. They see the decrease of players and the diminishing interest of players who might start an EvE career. Any fool can see that in the recent past.

With this, CCP kills two birds with one stone. Makes the whining instant gratification player community happy and makes more money. However, it kills (again) more of the spirit and the uniqueness of EvE Online. Those are little steps into the position, when people will say in the future: "Ahh EvE, wasn't that an RPG in space?" Like nothing special anymore. Sad.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#2014 - 2015-10-16 17:39:13 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Pic'n dor wrote:
The only point missing is the price of the SP extractor.
On the other hand, let's try to put a market price on a SP Pack.

My hypothesis :
500k SP in fully in full remap/implant setup is reach within a 7/8 days.
We can speculate that skill trainign to extract them gonna be a carreer path.
So a packet is 1/4 of a plex time.
At current price : this would get into the 300M isk


So from 350k SP to 5M, you need 9 packs >(or 9 weeks of training) which would be 2.7B isk
That means a new player have to make 50M per week in the 4 or 5 first week of EVE
ohhh but wait :
Quote:
Trial characters may not consume Skill Packets


That means in the first 3 weeks of eve, you can't inject !! that means you are able to consume them for around 6 weeks only to get full 500k !

If you are able to get 300M per week (which is not possible for new players whatever game carreer you take), well, you will only take 3 packs :
3 weeks of trial, +1 pack per week + self training per week : at week 7 you reach 5M SP

So now is my question :

- How is this feature good for new players since market price hypothesis is not compatible with new players
- Is it intended to allow wealthy average SP player to fine tune their skills to take over new players ?
- How do you expect new players to get to know this feature when they already have 1 billion thing to get used to when you start this game ? (Some vets still don't understand dominion sov and far more are lost with fozziesov) ( i won't speak of rules of engagement in highsec)
- Why would a 5M+ SP player would pay for 400k SP which would be 6 days of training when he can save the same amount of money to allow him to play for 7/8 days ?
- Why would we give the SuperCaps pilote a career path to make money when the already have reach suffcient wealth to get into the finest ships of the game with the right amount of skills ?

We should focus and get the NPE at top level and allow new comers to feel they are part of something bigger.




300mil is the TOP price based on plex values, it cannot go higher, but it can go much lower. The top price would be assuming all characters selling SP were doing nothing else of any value just farming SP... but in most cases this will be used to sell excess SP from indy toons, already maxed toons, station trading toons, PI toons etc and the acceptable price will be much much lower especially at the start when everyone starts liquidating their unwanted skills.


The initial glut of cheap liquidated SPs will get hoovered up by rich players/power blocks/speculators and perhaps a few lucky new guys. Once the gold rush is over and only a severely limited supply of SPs is left, new guys wanting to buy their way in to better game content will pay a very high price.

The NPE will not be helped by this at all, it will in fact make it worse since the vast majority of new guys will be looking enviously at not just the vets, but a few real life rich kids who can afford silly prices. If anything this will make new player retention worse, not better as the barrier of entry will seem even bigger and more unfair.
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#2015 - 2015-10-16 17:39:40 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:

I`d like eve pen again and some of the posters :)

I have no idea about the costs about the skins, i probably opened aur store when they started it, laughed on it and closed it. Make up does not add anything in game experience to me.

I do not have anything against anything what will really benefit the game. If CCP wants, give every new player 10-20-50 mil sp straight away. I do thing it is wrong approach but if that would be what is needed to keep the game healthy then be it.

I have the problem with introduction of this system which is determined to fail while changing game fundamentals which will cause a lot of unhappy customers, meaning even less players. And I do not think micro transactions are the model which can work properly in eve. It would change the game too much, in the wrong direction.


i've seen the isk prices of some of the skins - assuming that's relative to the cost of aur/plex/whatever - they're hilariously expensive. like half a plex for a red caracal or something outrageous.

to be honest i do wonder who's actually going to find this the most useful other than new players with more irl currency than they know what to do with. the conversion rate for high sp players is terrible, and the price for non-credit card warrior new players will be too high to really benefit from when they're low sp.

to be honest eve-o is probably the most negative place about this change. reddit was pretty ok with it other than the odd few nay-sayers when the blog first appeared.

I like the subscription model too, to be honest. you know exactly where you stand with that.


That means we are actually agreeing on more subjects. I do not like where this is heading to! :P

Though I would never buy them myself I am fine with isk sinks like skins etc, there is too much isk in the game and people who do not know what to do with it anymore.

As you stated very small amount of new players will actually utilize this. And I expect same amount of older players as well, just to fix some mistakes from the past. So CCP will not gain much, while they risk getting unhappy customers.

I have not read reddit as I am not active there, but i do think there were plenty of solid arguments for potential side effects which are great risk compared to so low gain they can expect.

And subscription model is about consistency, so you like that too! :)

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#2016 - 2015-10-16 17:39:51 UTC
100 pages in one day.

I would hope that the devs in question now realise their mistake, although them not doing so before hand is already bad enough.
Dave Stark
#2017 - 2015-10-16 17:41:13 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

to be honest eve-o is probably the most negative place about this change. reddit was pretty ok with it other than the odd few nay-sayers when the blog first appeared.

.


Funny, you don't have to be a paid subscriber to post in reddit. Here, you do.

Folks who have old accts that they no longer play with may see this as an easier method to 'cash out'

By Cash out, yes, I mean RMT. Of course they would be in favour of something that would allow them to get some of their money back out of the game. Strip an old character you no longer play with and see cold hard cash in return.

I am not saying that all of reddit thinks that way but that there are ways to explain the difference in opinion across various forums.

m


to be honest - i'd be more worried about paid subscribers threatening to quit than people who are currently unsubbed hatching one off RMT plans.

they're already lost causes - they're not coming back anyway.

then again, pretty sure the most upvoted post on the thread is elise randolph. doubt he's planning to cash out. a few weeks ago on the meta show the mittani basically turned around and said this would be good anyway since we're already doing the same thing via character bazzar. (although one could argue he's been cashing out for a while).
Dave Stark
#2018 - 2015-10-16 17:48:55 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:

I`d like eve pen again and some of the posters :)

I have no idea about the costs about the skins, i probably opened aur store when they started it, laughed on it and closed it. Make up does not add anything in game experience to me.

I do not have anything against anything what will really benefit the game. If CCP wants, give every new player 10-20-50 mil sp straight away. I do thing it is wrong approach but if that would be what is needed to keep the game healthy then be it.

I have the problem with introduction of this system which is determined to fail while changing game fundamentals which will cause a lot of unhappy customers, meaning even less players. And I do not think micro transactions are the model which can work properly in eve. It would change the game too much, in the wrong direction.


i've seen the isk prices of some of the skins - assuming that's relative to the cost of aur/plex/whatever - they're hilariously expensive. like half a plex for a red caracal or something outrageous.

to be honest i do wonder who's actually going to find this the most useful other than new players with more irl currency than they know what to do with. the conversion rate for high sp players is terrible, and the price for non-credit card warrior new players will be too high to really benefit from when they're low sp.

to be honest eve-o is probably the most negative place about this change. reddit was pretty ok with it other than the odd few nay-sayers when the blog first appeared.

I like the subscription model too, to be honest. you know exactly where you stand with that.


That means we are actually agreeing on more subjects. I do not like where this is heading to! :P

Though I would never buy them myself I am fine with isk sinks like skins etc, there is too much isk in the game and people who do not know what to do with it anymore.

As you stated very small amount of new players will actually utilize this. And I expect same amount of older players as well, just to fix some mistakes from the past. So CCP will not gain much, while they risk getting unhappy customers.

I have not read reddit as I am not active there, but i do think there were plenty of solid arguments for potential side effects which are great risk compared to so low gain they can expect.

And subscription model is about consistency, so you like that too! :)


probably heading nowhere good.

thinking about it, maybe it's perfect. price new players out of the market so they can't "waste" isk buying unallocated SP and dumping it in to skills like mining V, and destroying the return for old players so it doesn't become a game of "who can throw more isk at packets". the people that are left are the 20-50m sp crowd who have decent isk making capabilities who know enough to get good return from the packages at a not to obscene price and who won't waste them on mining V? just get people through some of those grueling V skills. hac V, recon V, racial cruiser V, medium weapon V etc.

reddit's not so bad. i like the less restricted moderation there. and the layout (once you get used to it, at first i thought it was awful but it's far easier to find replies on reddit)
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2019 - 2015-10-16 17:51:29 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Laodell wrote:
When I joined Eve everyone had the same start on life. We were all equal to build our empire. Trading SP destroys that

When I joined Eve(about 25 days ago) most of players has much more SP than me and I have no chance at all to catch them what ever I do.


Your point being...?

A frigate for example, can only utilise a set number of skill points, once you have them you are on a par (skill wise) with someone who started on day one of Eve-Online.

My point is that if new player defeat old one then "skillfull" capsuleer will reship to t3d.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
beakerax
Pator Tech School
#2020 - 2015-10-16 17:51:39 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
some things

I'll admit my use of the word "abuse" was overdramatic, because "abuse" to my mind would be "working as intended" to another.

The difference between this and the character bazaar is distributed production.

Mike Azariah wrote:
I am not saying that all of reddit thinks that way but that there are ways to explain the difference in opinion across various forums.

The r/eve mentality isn't quite the same as the eve-o mentality. We all love our pitchforks, but get them out on different occasions.