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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#901 - 2015-10-15 22:00:38 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Lots of hysteria here without any reasons behind it.
Eve is already pay to win and some "pro" vets are now crying.
Just show me the difference between:
a) Buying plex with money, selling it on market and then buying a char for isk on the character market.
b) Buying plex with money, seling it on market and then buying skill points for isk from another character.

Yep there is none :P
Apart from the fact that the new idea is a lot more comfortable.
But hey we have a "vets cry thread" now. Sometimes I think the old players are killing this game.
Eve is already pay to win. All you need is isk or RL money to buy toons and multibox.



The difference is that the bought character has their SP already spent, while the buyer of unallocated SP can apply it where they like.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Korvin
Shadow Kingdom
Best Alliance
#902 - 2015-10-15 22:00:56 UTC
Lol.
Someone in CCP really hates his job.

Member of CSM 4&5 ... &8
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#903 - 2015-10-15 22:01:16 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Querns wrote:

Again, as I have strenuously pointed out, the character bazaar does the exact same thing. Has for years. CCP gets theirs on every transfer.

No it doesn't. As per your quote here:

Querns wrote:


Also, you're significantly overestimating the number of times any one person would rush out to the character bazaar and snatch up a custom-made character just to stay ahead of the FOTM.

SP Transfer for existing characters in arbitrarily large amounts and buying a character grown by someone else are two very different things.

And if they are no different, we have no need for this new system.

And we aren't talking about buying another character or a second account training, We are talking about the purchase of bulk SP applied instantaneously to a character of my choice.

It's a three party transaction:

$$$ to CCP<----->Instant, Bulk SP to the buyer<---->SP loss and Isk gain to the seller.

But here's the problem. This f*cking bit still happens:
$$$ to CCP<----->Instant, Bulk SP to the buyer


And no matter how much you repeat it,instant bulk sp to an arbitrary character is not the same thing as purchasing a character off the bazaar.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#904 - 2015-10-15 22:01:37 UTC
Arec Bardwin wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Lots of hysteria here without any reasons behind it.
Eve is already pay to win and some "pro" vets are now crying.
Just show me the difference between:
a) Buying plex with money, selling it on market and then buying a char for isk on the character market.
b) Buying plex with money, seling it on market and then buying skill points for isk from another character.

Yep there is none :P
Apart from the fact that the new idea is a lot more comfortable.
But hey we have a "vets cry thread" now. Sometimes I think the old players are killing this game.
Eve is already pay to win. All you need is isk or RL money to buy toons and multibox.
You realise that the pro vets with unlimited wallets would profit the most from this, don't you?


You should skill reading at least on lv 2^^
Older chars really do not profit from this. Read the thread.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
#905 - 2015-10-15 22:01:49 UTC  |  Edited by: kraken11 jensen
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
kraken11 jensen wrote:
Go for it ccp, change how it have been forever. like the change to multiboxing, (broadcasting) witch was allowed for 10+ years, then it got changed because some people raged about the very few people who did it large scale. now people can feel how it is going to be robbed for a big part off the game as they like it, and play in. lol LolPShocked
I would still be able to train skills the same way I have since 2010. Not a single thing would be robbed or changed.


I talk about robbed as in the game (how it is now) and people like it, ( some might not feel robbed and some might) I was relying to the ones that was going to feel robbed, and I might not have expressed that correctly in what I wrote (with my broken English) lol
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#906 - 2015-10-15 22:03:13 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Lots of hysteria here without any reasons behind it.
Eve is already pay to win and some "pro" vets are now crying.
Just show me the difference between:
a) Buying plex with money, selling it on market and then buying a char for isk on the character market.
b) Buying plex with money, seling it on market and then buying skill points for isk from another character.

Yep there is none :P
Apart from the fact that the new idea is a lot more comfortable.
But hey we have a "vets cry thread" now. Sometimes I think the old players are killing this game.
Eve is already pay to win. All you need is isk or RL money to buy toons and multibox.



The difference is that the bought character has their SP already spent, while the buyer of unallocated SP can apply it where they like.


You realize all the threads out there "CCP I want my skillpoints back because you have nerfed my ship"?
Sometimes I am thinking most eve players first max their whining skills.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#907 - 2015-10-15 22:04:21 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
I am amused that the "solution" to the character bazaar being out-of-game is to destroy it entirely.

SP for money is a bad idea. The people most able to exploit this feature will be those setting up short-lived characters on new accounts.

The beauty of the character bazaar is that you are paying for the right skills, not just a number of SP. Bonus points for clean history and a good name.

Rather than SP for ISK, bring the character bazaar into the game. Allow ads on bulletin boards and CQ screens.
It's actually gaining SP from equal or more SP+money given up. It's essentially the bazaar without buying the name and history with the character.


It's nothing like the Bazaar. You are buying SP for Aurum to allocate where you want.

The bazaar is about buying complete entities, with skills trained where you want them (by someone who knew where to train, ideally), and there is no option to remove skills you don't like or swap SP around.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
#908 - 2015-10-15 22:04:50 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Lots of hysteria here without any reasons behind it.
Eve is already pay to win and some "pro" vets are now crying.
Just show me the difference between:
a) Buying plex with money, selling it on market and then buying a char for isk on the character market.
b) Buying plex with money, seling it on market and then buying skill points for isk from another character.

Yep there is none :P
Apart from the fact that the new idea is a lot more comfortable.
But hey we have a "vets cry thread" now. Sometimes I think the old players are killing this game.
Eve is already pay to win. All you need is isk or RL money to buy toons and multibox.



The difference is that the bought character has their SP already spent, while the buyer of unallocated SP can apply it where they like.


You realize all the threads out there "CCP I want my skillpoints back because you have nerfed my ship"?
Sometimes I am thinking most eve players first max their whining skills.


I somewhat understand people whining (esp newer players if they nerf the only ship they have ever fully trained into)
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#909 - 2015-10-15 22:05:24 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Querns wrote:

No it doesn't. As per your quote here:

[quote=Querns]

Also, you're significantly overestimating the number of times any one person would rush out to the character bazaar and snatch up a custom-made character just to stay ahead of the FOTM.

SP Transfer for existing characters in arbitrarily large amounts and buying a character grown by someone else are two very different things.

And if they are no different, we have no need for this new system.

And we aren't talking about buying another character or a second account training, We are talking about the purchase of bulk SP applied instantaneously to a character of my choice.

It's a three party transaction:

$$$ to CCP<----->Instant, Bulk SP to the buyer<---->SP loss and Isk gain to the seller.

But here's the problem. This f*cking bit still happens:
$$$ to CCP<----->Instant, Bulk SP to the buyer


And no matter how much you repeat it,instant bulk sp to an arbitrary character is not the same thing as purchasing a character off the bazaar.

It's the same thing. You give money to another player, he gives you SP. CCP gets a cut in the form of a reduction of their liabilities.

The new system is only different in its granularity.

All this focus on applying it to a specific character makes no sense. Who cares what character the SP is on?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Vollhov
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#910 - 2015-10-15 22:05:24 UTC
Guys there monument to the Amarr. Lol

End of Time. I'm not fanatic, I'm just a servant by Her Majesty the Empress Jamyl Sarum I. It's time to leave this world to me. YC111 to YC117.12.10 20:00
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#911 - 2015-10-15 22:05:33 UTC
I like it, so I can get rid of useless skills that I trained back in the day and sell the skillpoints for iskies? Sounds good.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#912 - 2015-10-15 22:06:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Yep. If lore-wise "skill points" are just data in the first place anyway, why not write the data directly, copy it a bajillion times and sell it to everyone.

Not that I think the lore should limit game mechanics, but anything to keep this from happening is fine with me.



Again, for the "how is this different from the character bazaar"-crowd:

1. Make 5 alts. Train them at Maximim SP/h, the skills you train don't matter. Just go for spaceship command skills, no need to respec.
2. Transfer it all to one Charakter until he hits 50M

That way you can effectively train more than 4 times as fast as you normally would and no, those SP are not being taken out of the game, but created just for the purpose. People are already creating alts just for the CB, and they will do that as well for that new Extraction bullshit, only that this time, turnaround times are much quicker.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#913 - 2015-10-15 22:06:34 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
I am amused that the "solution" to the character bazaar being out-of-game is to destroy it entirely.

SP for money is a bad idea. The people most able to exploit this feature will be those setting up short-lived characters on new accounts.

The beauty of the character bazaar is that you are paying for the right skills, not just a number of SP. Bonus points for clean history and a good name.

Rather than SP for ISK, bring the character bazaar into the game. Allow ads on bulletin boards and CQ screens.
It's actually gaining SP from equal or more SP+money given up. It's essentially the bazaar without buying the name and history with the character.


It's nothing like the Bazaar. You are buying SP for Aurum to allocate where you want.

The bazaar is about buying complete entities, with skills trained where you want them (by someone who knew where to train, ideally), and there is no option to remove skills you don't like or swap SP around.

Did you read the devblog? The only part of the transaction that involves Aurum is purchasing the extractor in the first place. Players have to spend SP, then sell the filled extractor on the open market. This is not even remotely the same thing as "money for SP."

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#914 - 2015-10-15 22:07:46 UTC
So, essentially...

I can take boat-loads of ISK and buy Unallocated SP Packages and then input them into my character to suddenly have enormous wealths of SP.

Alternatively:

I can make an alt-army, train them up using ISK for PLEX and/or pay for them normally, buy the extractor bit and pull the unallocated SP from them and insert the Unallocated SP Packages into my main.

Completely invalidating the decision making and choices I put into things and ultimately invalidating test server SP gains as I'd just have SP to freely put where-ever I'd like.

Am I getting this right?

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#915 - 2015-10-15 22:08:05 UTC
Querns wrote:
Arec Bardwin wrote:
]You realise that the pro vets with unlimited wallets would profit the most from this, don't you?

How? They have to spend ten times as much ISK for the same benefit as a new player would.

You think they care? they have trillions of ISK and nothing they can spend it on. Say bb to PLEXing your account because it will sky-rocket, say bb to SP for ISK because you will never have the ISK to buy them.

Evil RatKid
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#916 - 2015-10-15 22:08:58 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
You realize all the threads out there "CCP I want my skillpoints back because you have nerfed my ship"?
Sometimes I am thinking most eve players first max their whining skills.


There are also threads asking for ways to probe cloaks and demanding a limit of one character per player. Should CCP listen to those too?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#917 - 2015-10-15 22:09:09 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:

Again, for the "how is this different from the character bazaar crowd":

1. Make 5 alts. Train them at Maximim SP/h, the skills you train don't matter. Just go for spaceship command skills, no need to respec.
2. Transfer it all to one Charakter until he hits 50M

That way you can effectively train more than 4 times as fast as you normally would and no, those SP are not being taken out of the game, but created just for the purpose. People are already creating alts just for the CB, and they will do that as well for that new Extraction bullshit, only that this time, turnaround times are much quicker.

Make 5 alts. Train them at maximum SP on a skill plan that is in-demand. Sell them on the Character Bazaar. Use the proceeds to buy a character with the skills you want.

Exactly the same thing.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#918 - 2015-10-15 22:09:14 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Opner Dresden wrote:
You want a particular skill on a particular character? Train it.
Why should that be the only option? If someone else is willing to sell it, why can't I buy it like anything else? No one tells you if you want a ship to mine for it and build it yourself. Why is this different?

Because SP has a value which will be diminished if you can liquidate unwanted skills and trade them with other players in the form of unallocated SP. A better question is why do you feel like you are such a special snowflake that you think you are entitled to buy skills which others have had to wait for for the last 12 years?

I remember Greyscale giving one of the reasons for not wanting to reimburse advanced industry when it was made to be useless was because he thought giving out unallocated SP diminishes the skill system. What has changed CCP?
Devin Wallace
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#919 - 2015-10-15 22:10:45 UTC
Querns wrote:
Reiisha wrote:
Stupidly bad idea. This is going to get abused like no tomorrow.

Expect maxed 600m sp characters within days of the release of this feature.

At least make it so that 80 or 100m+ sp character don't gain any sp whatsoever via this feature.... I can understand the need to get up to 40-60m quickly, but above that.... I'll be honest, i like my vet status! :P

What, exactly, is the abuse of having all 5s skills?


More importantly, like I've mentioned twice now and is readily apparent in the actual devblog, paying to skill a character even as high as 80 million ISK would cost THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. THOUSANDS.

I hope I don't meet the worm that creates the holes,  must be immortal.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#920 - 2015-10-15 22:11:09 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
It's nothing like the Bazaar. You are buying SP for Aurum to allocate where you want.

The bazaar is about buying complete entities, with skills trained where you want them (by someone who knew where to train, ideally), and there is no option to remove skills you don't like or swap SP around.
No, unless I'm misunderstanding the blog you are not buying SP for aur. You are buying the capacity to remove SP for aur, and trading the removed SP for isk.

The person acquiring SP need have no aur or pay CCP any real money. I see no issue with this as it parallels PLEX in economic function and beyond that actually diminishes the character using the extractor.

The loss of efficiency at higher SP totals replicates the effect of increased cost surrounding skills you may not want when compared with character bazaar transfers.