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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#701 - 2015-10-15 19:34:54 UTC
S'Way wrote:
So this is how it ends then ?

Would have hoped there was still someone left from the old days at CCP who could see why this is a terrible idea (for all the reasons already posted by many others).


Himlar is still CEO, get your facts strait. And most negative people did not really read the blog, or thought before penning stuff down.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Eternal Bob
Doomheim
#702 - 2015-10-15 19:35:08 UTC
Interesting how the most popular reactions to this on /r/eve have been the positive ones. Luckily this forum isn't the only place devs go for feedback.

Biomassing to free a char slot.

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#703 - 2015-10-15 19:35:20 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
Querns wrote:

Having to struggle with a nascent skill system and without the tools necessary to manage it does not somehow entitle those ancient souls to anything.



Consistency is what matters. Loyalty. You do not change fundamentals after 12 years. Because that way you trick player base, ie your customers. I am sure if they started like p2w game, EVE would be dead long ago, I doubt it would even make 5 years.

Frankly, not really. An ancient player's subscription is not worth appreciably more than a new player's.

You could argue that older players have more accounts, but given that the account/player ratio is about 1.5, this falls flat on the grand scale.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

drunklies
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#704 - 2015-10-15 19:35:31 UTC
Querns wrote:
drunklies wrote:
Not having done so does not entitle those mewling newbies to anything either.

SP injectors aren't an entitlement. They're an option.


An option born of entitlement, of people wanting to bypass the hoops that everyone else jumped through.

And before someone jumps in saying something about wanting to make everyone suffer, you are missing the point. It's the experience that is valuable, not the 'suffering'. Removing the need for that experience means you are devaluing the quality of the players available, simply because they do not have the experience that other players do.

Kon Kre8r
#705 - 2015-10-15 19:35:39 UTC
sharpscg wrote:
I don't like this.

The way buying characters works right now is completely fine.


The way it is now is NOT fine.
This new option as suggested so far -- also NOT fine.

What we DO need -- Simple fixes CCP REFUSES to fix -- Black Ops for instance -- Still can NOT use covert ops cloak!

The GOOD IDEA --> New structures - YAY
The Bad --> New Fozzie Sov -- Booo

U need us to spend more money? Regain our trust and faith so that we proudly buy things like Posters, shirts, etc.

Black Ops ships using Covert Jump Portals with Covert Cynos are NOT allowed to use Covert Cloaks. That makes sense.

Guillame Herschel
Buffalo Soldiers
#706 - 2015-10-15 19:35:55 UTC
Does this mean I can finally put the SP to use that I spent on Fast Talk way back in 2003?

deathpain
Umbrella. Corporation
#707 - 2015-10-15 19:36:01 UTC
QUESTION:

How did this go from an idea, through managment, then the CSM, all the way to being a devblog without even one person stopping and thinking, hmm I wonder what the player bass will think of this idiotic idea?

OPINION:

I for one hate this idea with a passion, it's worse then the system we already have. You could improve the character bazaar so much easier without all this...

SUGGESTION:

Create a in game area to buy characters, ok that's fine. Now create a system to rename characters at a additional plex cost. Done everything that you highlighted as problems in one go, and no one gets upset. This will require much less work to implement and also you get another income stream from charachter renaming.

MY EXPERIENCE:

I have bought a charachter in the past, however at no point did I feel I was being ripped off or being sold a shady charachter since I used this party tools like every sensible person who buys a toon does. I knew how much i was worth as I appraised the toon, so I knew I was getting a decent deal, and I checked the charachter history to see what it had got up to in the past.

So people buying toons who know the game are going to be safe, but those who don't know the game... Should they be buying a toon at all? In my opinion no. My main I love as I built him from scratch, there is pride in the skill points that I put effort into. Yes I did buy a alt, but I still had to work from the very beginning trying to make serious money selling shuttles all the way to ratting in wormholes with my pimped out proteus. So I think that an easy route to all that sp is a bad thing as all those mistakes you make on the way to getting that sp is invaluable and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

ADDITIONALLY:

Also nullified interceptors is dumb, yeah I know it has nothing to do with this devblog but I'm going to keep saying it till someone finally listens...
Josef Djugashvilis
#708 - 2015-10-15 19:36:28 UTC
Sharps wrote:
I like this idea. I'm a new player and I'm willing to pay a little extra to be able to do the things I want to do.

You 10 year vets who have won Eve by PLEXing all your accounts and playing for free, why wouldn't you want me to give CCP my money? They have to get RL money from somewhere, and I sure as hell ain't buying SKINs.


I have never bought a PLEX nor used the character bazaar.

Annual sub all the way.

This is not a signature.

PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#709 - 2015-10-15 19:36:39 UTC
Querns wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Querns wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Querns wrote:


Also, you're significantly overestimating the number of times any one person would rush out to the character bazaar and snatch up a custom-made character just to stay ahead of the FOTM.

That's my whole point: people don't do it because it isn't practical in most cases.

But now - Farm some gno...Sanshas in the barrens..err high sec to get your SP to level up...errr get your skills to V and get that sweet new raid gea...errr FOTM ship.

This is not appreciably different than the Character Bazaar.

Yes it is. The SP queue, as opposed to grdinding gnolls in the barrens, is one of the principal differences that separates eve from the lesser mmos. Removing that difference in the name of accessibility is a mistake and a loss.

The SP queue can be bypassed by the Character Bazaar. You can even fund these purchases on your first day by converting purchased PLEX into ISK.

No, it can't, not practically anyway- you yourself gave the perfect example showing why it's impractical in the above nested quote.

You're talking about buying a whole new character, I'm talking about improving an existing one. There's a difference, a big one. If I have 2 freighter alts, and want a jump freighter capable character, I'd rather improve one of the existing freighter alts then buy a brand new character.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#710 - 2015-10-15 19:37:26 UTC
drunklies wrote:
Querns wrote:
drunklies wrote:
Not having done so does not entitle those mewling newbies to anything either.

SP injectors aren't an entitlement. They're an option.


An option born of entitlement, of people wanting to bypass the hoops that everyone else jumped through.

And before someone jumps in saying something about wanting to make everyone suffer, you are missing the point. It's the experience that is valuable, not the 'suffering'. Removing the need for that experience means you are devaluing the quality of the players available, simply because they do not have the experience that other players do.


The fact that an older player had to jump through hoops does not somehow make it required that new players also have to jump through the same hoops. Your suffering is not sacrosanct or even meaningful at all.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Aren Dar
EVE University
Ivy League
#711 - 2015-10-15 19:37:53 UTC
One of the things I've observed in dealing with newer players is the number of people who have dropped out over the years because they joined with the assumption that they could grind game time. Exacerbated when there were a lot of people in a single group who were of the same mentality - eventually lots of them burnt out.

Ironically higher plex prices has made this kind of behavior less common, as it has become less realistic.

I wonder if one of the unintended consequences of this change - if effected - would be that new players would end up constantly micro-grinding for more SP.
oohthey ioh
Doomheim
#712 - 2015-10-15 19:38:05 UTC
You could do it so people have to split trained skills in half, and can only use them to on the skill they was split form.
The value will be based per skill not per so many SP.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#713 - 2015-10-15 19:38:50 UTC
deathpain wrote:
QUESTION:

How did this go from an idea, through managment, then the CSM, all the way to being a devblog without even one person stopping and thinking, hmm I wonder what the player bass will think of this idiotic idea?

Community feedback has sharply limited value, especially in the case where an entitlement is being threatened.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#714 - 2015-10-15 19:39:11 UTC
Alladir wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
So, if CCP instigates this, will Character Trading be removed? This is supposed to be the replacement for the Character Bazaar right? So why would we need Character Trading anymore? Otherwise, this will lead to a great new form of Character trading where we can easily build specced toons for a specific function, and then sell them. Depending on the final costs, which will probably be rather high, I think we can look at toons selling for a bit more.


Someone on reddit ran approx math that buying char is twice as cheap when it comes to isk/sp cost compared to new system so no, they will not replace market.


But you miss the fact that people will change the cost based on market.
Hashtag Rare Pepe
Doomheim
#715 - 2015-10-15 19:39:58 UTC
Or make it that we earn some sort of lp to buy these Skill Packet with pvp kills. That way people will undock, everyone will get ""content"" and it's not pay 2 win.

In any cases the progression is too slow and the gap between fresh characters and veterans is too big.
Mai Ling Ravencroft
Duragon Pioneer Group
#716 - 2015-10-15 19:40:12 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
Eternal Bob wrote:
drunklies wrote:
Eternal Bob wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
I mean F*CK his 12 years of efforts


Explain what effort is required to gain skillpoints.



The effort involved in researching, planning, and implementing those 12 years of skills. I mean, someone spending 12 years perfecting something passive shouldn't count as having done anything.

Gardeners are by this logic, worthless.


The only 'effort' required to amass skill points is injecting the skill book and applying it to your queue. Please don't pretend there is any real effort involved.


I will try to stay away from replying to troll alts but just so other know skill queue was not there since start. For years you had to time skills and plan when you will change it, wake up to do it etc.

Also there was no attributes remap either so you had to plan well how to develop your char.

And even after getting those it still takes effort to do the best possible planning to utilize the most of your attributes in the long run.

And if nothing else I am sure plenty would stop playing and training if they knew this will happen. Why should i spend hundreds / thousands bucks on subscription while having to bother about training when I can just come and drop the money and get everything i want?


Good point, next time I wanna take a break, unsub, then when I wanna come back, resub, use saved cash to PLEX and but the SP I didn't train, and perfectly jump into that new doctrine they added while I was away. This way I don't have to train for what I think will be needed, I can just train exactly what I am missing then.
Jon Dekker
Dekker Corporation
#717 - 2015-10-15 19:40:26 UTC
So will characters be destroyed and biomassed when you extract SP? I would think that that would probably be better, or to enact some penalty on the donating character.

Idunno though, this is very similar to giving and selling blood. Sure, there might be some perfect cap pilots but someone somewhere is putting in the effort. They are still paying for a character slot with real $$ to generate those SP. CCP can then throttle the seeding of the SP extraction packs and maintain a price for SP.

In EVE, SP isn't an instant WIN, remember? So it's not quite like getting a level 99 character on day 1.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#718 - 2015-10-15 19:40:39 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
[
You're talking about buying a whole new character, I'm talking about improving an existing one. There's a difference, a big one.

There really isn't.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

drunklies
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#719 - 2015-10-15 19:41:42 UTC
Querns wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
Querns wrote:

Having to struggle with a nascent skill system and without the tools necessary to manage it does not somehow entitle those ancient souls to anything.



Consistency is what matters. Loyalty. You do not change fundamentals after 12 years. Because that way you trick player base, ie your customers. I am sure if they started like p2w game, EVE would be dead long ago, I doubt it would even make 5 years.

Frankly, not really. An ancient player's subscription is not worth appreciably more than a new player's.

You could argue that older players have more accounts, but given that the account/player ratio is about 1.5, this falls flat on the grand scale.


It does go deeper then that though. Older players for the back bone of eve in many ways, they provide the services, the support, industry, corp management an a bunch of stuff i dont understand.

Yes, new players could do this, and might, but don't say that old players are worth only as much as new. At the very least they have the benefit of proven loyalty.
Kilian Katar
Unknown Enterprises
#720 - 2015-10-15 19:41:59 UTC
Davir Sometaww wrote:
Well it could be modified.

To where you can pay a certain fee in plex for a "name change" or "skill revamp".


Proposal: Skill Revamp;

-All your SP is allocated into unallocated skillpoints.
-This will have a 1 year Cooldown.
-Cost: 2-3 Plex or certain equivalent $$.

Why:

-Everybody makes mistakes. This lets a player start with a clean slate on what ships he/she wants to fly or do in his/her career in eve online.
-One year cooldown - ensures that this doesn't get "abused".



Proposal: Name Change:

-Change your characters name
-Note: will still say your old name on new tab of : Past History/Past Employment
-Cost: 2 Plex? Can be adjusted as needed.
-This will have a 6 month - 1 year cooldown?

Why:

-Everybody makes mistakes. This lets the player that named his character something stupid like: "Fat Kid Loves Cake" to something serious if he/she wanted too.
-You are still able to see the past history of the name.
-long cooldown - ensures that this doesn't get "abused".



You single handily came out with more bright ideas than CCP has in a good 6 months or more