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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#501 - 2015-10-15 18:17:10 UTC
Such a bad idea. Can't stress how much I don't like it.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#502 - 2015-10-15 18:18:42 UTC
FZappa wrote:
beside this reeking of pay to win (which can already be done today by buying a character off the bazaar)
this messes up our ability to asses a character risk level by looking at its age.

for example , that lone 3 day old character in system with me is not much of a risk..
suddenly , he decloaks in a bomber , points me , and lights a covops cyno for his blops buddies Shocked

in other words , this can be exploited to game breaking levels by either players with deep wallets
or vast sums of isk handy .

I recommend adopting a Not Blue Shoot It policy.

Also, in my experience (on both sides of the fence,) if you wait to react until you've loaded the character info screen, you're probably already dead.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Nergart
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#503 - 2015-10-15 18:19:07 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
For people quitting in protest I remind them that Operation Magic School Bus does accept donations to help out the new players. Yes, this is a 'can I haz' post but it is one where the material will be put to good use, not just lining a wallet or hanger. Contract to me if you wish to donate.

m



what new players?

also this does kind of prove my point about the individuals being part of the CSM for their own gains

Eve does not have a learning curve, its a learning cliff. Either learn to fly on the way down or its going to be a hard landing

Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#504 - 2015-10-15 18:19:16 UTC
a guy I know asked me, "how's eve?"

Knowing he was possibly interested in joining the game to play it with me, and me being a completely honest person I had to immediately approach the situation with truth.

"it's fun, but I've had this guy subbed for 8 months now and I'm just now getting to the point where I will soon be able to properly fly only a small fraction of available ships with the proper skills."

I can't recommend the game to him and others because I know he wont be able to actually do things with me and be a fair contributor to my goals for almost a year.

I'm egotistical and narcissistic and #thebest and all, but even I can't lie to a friend and try tricking him into joining the game when I know full well that he will be disappointed with the options available to him.

At least now I'll be able to tell him, "join now and we can grind you isk for a month and be able to start buying skills to help you get to where I am and we can both fly around space dominating dudes together".
SebN
Drumm Enterprises
#505 - 2015-10-15 18:19:43 UTC
I never post on these forums but i feel compelled to in this case, i think that this fundamentally breaks the whole beauty of EVE, litterally pay money to buy skill points, whoever actually authorised this idea is so totally out of touch with the player base.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#506 - 2015-10-15 18:20:16 UTC
Querns wrote:
Nergart wrote:
....so how long before eve is free to play?

i only ask so i can stop paying CCP any money?


Eve is already free to play. I have only ever directly given CCP money once, for my initial 30 days of subscription time. After that, I have kept all my accounts going strictly from in-game isk.


tsk, I expect better than that of you, Q

You know that any plex has been paid for by somebody so your claim of free actually is 'I have other people to pay for it'

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Devin Wallace
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#507 - 2015-10-15 18:20:28 UTC
Tzu Wu wrote:
Tado wrote:
No thank you this is a terrible idea.

I have been playing this game since day one and for me this idea of yours will kill EVE for me.



You bittervets really need to get over yourselves.You've been playing since day 1 and want to hold that "elite" status until the server finally shuts down? I say that because it seems bittervets would rather the game day then CCP make any changes that might effect their "elite" status.


I haven't been playing this for a complete 4 years quite yet, and I feel the same way as any 13 year bittervet.

I have personally attempted to train and influence at least 20 new players into making EVE part of their life. I have succeeded in only a handful of cases, because most humans simply do not have the long term resolve and commitment. I'm sure many can tell you the same story.

I played through a time when this game was still in it's most rugged and unpolished forms. No health meter on drones in the drone-bay. Ugly asymmetrical ship hulls. The NeoCom icons were colorful. There was a jukebox. Corps did not have the option of turning off friendly fire. The Venture did not exist. Cruisers were poorly balanced and bonuses on most ships didn't really make sense. I was scanning wormhole chains when probes had to be moved 1 at a time and I could only use 6 because of SP limitations I had. If you failed to update your clone, you suffered a substantial and painful loss of SP. I lost Minmatar Battleship 5, Minmatar Battlecruiser 5, and Gallente Battlecruiser 5 while scrambling to reach staging areas during the chaos of the Halloween War. I dodged gate-camps from almost every highsec mercenary group in New Eden from 2012-2013, scraping a living off level 3 missions. I was ganked twice in wspace while soloing sleepers with my old nanocane. I went through faction warfare with the Minmatar Militia. I drove my security status down to -5.2 with the first months of Brave Newbies and spent nearly 2 weeks in Great Wildlands, ratting it back up with a Hound, when security ticks were every 15 minutes, not every 5 minutes. Ancillary Shield Boosters did not exist. Ancillary Armor reppers did not exist. Interceptors were not immune to bubbles.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I stuck with it through this game when it was far less hospitable to new players, and I earned every single skillpoint I have through trials of fire. I am PROUD to be a bittervet.

Giving new players even more shortcuts and easy way out...it makes me feel sick

I hope I don't meet the worm that creates the holes,  must be immortal.

Kilian Katar
Unknown Enterprises
#508 - 2015-10-15 18:21:53 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Kilian Katar wrote:
ISK IRON BANK wrote:
Buy SP using plex

Buy char from Forum using plex


Not sure why everyone is getting excited over this.


Characters take time to train, their skills and how they are spread or dedicated defines their worth, they sometimes come with a background, there is risk involved for those that train to sell (the demand may vanish)

SP is SP and in its raw form will have a constant worth. 25m SP on the bazaar can vary wildly in price, in SP form it wouldn't


The SP will not be created out of thin air. They have to be drained from an existing character who took the time to train those SP.

FFS, read the Dev Blog and engage the brain people.



No **** sherlock, but when you extract that SP you can apply it anywhere so its worth is actually far more than when it is hard wired in some characters head. ALSO as an item in game, like plex it could be destroyed so CCP is not only allowing the destruction of money via plex, but also the destruction of skillpoints. (let alone the skill points that vanish into thin air when applied to characters not on the minimum threshhold)
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#509 - 2015-10-15 18:23:03 UTC
SebN wrote:
I never post on these forums but i feel compelled to in this case, i think that this fundamentally breaks the whole beauty of EVE, litterally pay money to buy skill points, whoever actually authorised this idea is so totally out of touch with the player base.



Really? And the character bazaar? That didn't break the beauty of EVE?

You do know how this works? I'm guessing you don't and are posting out of ignorance. To buy SP somebody has to drain theirs. SP are not being created out of thin air. Somebody had to have an active account and an active skill queue.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Niraia
Starcakes
Cynosural Field Theory.
#510 - 2015-10-15 18:23:08 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
a guy I know asked me, "how's eve?"

Knowing he was possibly interested in joining the game to play it with me, and me being a completely honest person I had to immediately approach the situation with truth.

"it's fun, but I've had this guy subbed for 8 months now and I'm just now getting to the point where I will soon be able to properly fly only a small fraction of available ships with the proper skills."

I can't recommend the game to him and others because I know he wont be able to actually do things with me and be a fair contributor to my goals for almost a year.

I'm egotistical and narcissistic and #thebest and all, but even I can't lie to a friend and try tricking him into joining the game when I know full well that he will be disappointed with the options available to him.

At least now I'll be able to tell him, "join now and we can grind you isk for a month and be able to start buying skills to help you get to where I am and we can both fly around space dominating dudes together".


If you aren't having fun now, you probably won't have fun with lots of SP either. It's your attitude that leads to bullshit game design and stupid ideas like this. Thanks.

William Hazard
Literally The Worst Community
#511 - 2015-10-15 18:23:25 UTC
- industry simplification
- ugly and stupid new overview icone, hated by everyone on SiSi and you kept updated them
- free jump clone everywhere
- assets teleportation in citadel (WTF hauling ????)

And now...

Skill sales ???


Are you ******* ****** ? Your really want to kill Eve ?


Do that, and i won't play or pay for Eve anymore.


Stop making this game simpler & less interesting, more "like the others" at each new idea. You're absolutely destroying everything for which players were on Eve, and not elsewhere.


TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#512 - 2015-10-15 18:23:38 UTC
SebN wrote:
I never post on these forums but i feel compelled to in this case, i think that this fundamentally breaks the whole beauty of EVE, litterally pay money to buy skill points, whoever actually authorised this idea is so totally out of touch with the player base.


"buy money to buy someone else his / her skillpoints"

Fixed that for you.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Fool Nalelmir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#513 - 2015-10-15 18:24:03 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
a guy I know asked me, "how's eve?"

Knowing he was possibly interested in joining the game to play it with me, and me being a completely honest person I had to immediately approach the situation with truth.

"it's fun, but I've had this guy subbed for 8 months now and I'm just now getting to the point where I will soon be able to properly fly only a small fraction of available ships with the proper skills."

I can't recommend the game to him and others because I know he wont be able to actually do things with me and be a fair contributor to my goals for almost a year.

I'm egotistical and narcissistic and #thebest and all, but even I can't lie to a friend and try tricking him into joining the game when I know full well that he will be disappointed with the options available to him.

At least now I'll be able to tell him, "join now and we can grind you isk for a month and be able to start buying skills to help you get to where I am and we can both fly around space dominating dudes together".


Fair enough but there has got to be a better way that this. Lets be honest who is going to get the most from this it won't be your buddy or any other new player. They don't have the isk starting out to really afford it and who in their rite mind is going to dump hundreds of dollars to just try the game out.
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#514 - 2015-10-15 18:24:10 UTC
This is on the right track I think. But unallocated SP sounds crazy. Why not one for one? I take my Missiles skills out of my head, package them, and sell them to a buyer. If you want to keep the diminishing returns part, the package only takes whole number values of skills. If I have Bombardment 3, with 76% of the way to 4, that 76% is lost. I'm selling Bombardment 3. Simplifies things a bit.

Screw the Aurum part. If you want to keep charging PLEX, use PLEX. Stop trying to make me use Aurum. I don't want it.
Mai Ling Ravencroft
Duragon Pioneer Group
#515 - 2015-10-15 18:24:13 UTC
Skinzee wrote:
All the people moaning and complaining about the idea are people that already have 50-100+ million skill points...

Yes, you've spent your fair share of time training your skills to be where they are but this is NOT pay to win...

My character has 2.2million SP and am currently training core skills and want to fly a curse as its my favorite ship..

Current training time left to fly 'efficiently' - 70d 11h 21mn...

That is effectively 2.5m SP (roughly).

If I had the option to spend £20-30 to avoid those 70days to get into the ship I want to fly and make me want to play the game more, than I'd be happy to do it.


What issue do you see of a character being 'boosted' to 5m or even 10m skillpoints etc? I imagine it wont be cheap getting millions of skillpoints doing it this way either.

I was tempted by character bazaar and buying my own character but that character would never be 'mine'... it would never be special... never have my own name etc.

I fully agree with this option as I dont see a major issue with it.

All the vets can go cry somewhere else. Just because you dont want newbies being a 'competition' in anyway...

IM A NEWB AND I WANT TO PAY A LITTLE EXTRA TO FLY A SHIP AND ENJOY THE GAME THAT I ALREADY PAY FOR!


What you fail to see is that, while you are training for that ship, you will be flying cheaper, similar ships, that while not as good are there for you to learn how to fly the nice shiney you are really after. Durring this time, you will game actual skills as a player, skills that you can't buy or train, but must be learned yourself as the player. No you are not likely going to be as good as you will end up being in your Curse, but when you get in that Curse, you will likely be a much better pilot because of it. Though if you "magically" were to hop in that Curse today, you'd likely loose it just as fast as any of the T1s you'll have to fly, but at a much steeper cost.

The time it takes to train, it is the time you have to learn to fly. If you learn how to fly a T1 solidly, then when you get your T2, you are going to be that much better.

I was going to post this sepperately, but your post was a great lead in to my thoughts on this. All too often, new players hear about the Character Bazaar and want to jump the gun and buy a pilot that can fly something special. As a member of Goonswarm, it is all to common, as we see our beloved noobs in Karmafleet doing this. So what happens, well just take a look at any of the KB sites and you will see, lots of pilots loosing ships they had no place flying. Capitals dieing in amazingly stupid ways, Faction BS and T2s with horrible fits, and the list goes on.

I don't think this is just a horrible idea cause I wanna watch you suffer as a noob. I think this is a horrible idea cause you will suffer as a noob, flying ships you have no idea how to fly. Loosing massive amounts of ISK that you can barely afford to make.

I have been a logistics pilot for many years, and the 3 months it took to earn my T2 logi ship was spent flying T1 logi, getting teased and harassed for being a scrub. Those 3 months though taught me alot of tactics, management and overall piloting skills that you can't train, but rather have to experience. Buying you way into that ship you want so bad is just going to make you even madder when you keep loosing them because you don't have the actual experience you will need touse them right.

This might seem biased, bitter or condescending but in all honesty, it is the simple truth. take your time learn the game and once you really are skilled, use the Char Bazaar to supplement your pilot roster with those 7 extra miners or a dedicated scanning alt or such, but right now, be a noob, learn from it and experience the game as you should.
Abraxcis Caine
The Forsakened Few
We Forsakened Few
#516 - 2015-10-15 18:24:20 UTC
Don't like it. I actually prefer to have the character bazaar relatively obscure and not something newbs know about. This would be a step in the wrong direction.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#517 - 2015-10-15 18:24:49 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Querns wrote:
Nergart wrote:
....so how long before eve is free to play?

i only ask so i can stop paying CCP any money?


Eve is already free to play. I have only ever directly given CCP money once, for my initial 30 days of subscription time. After that, I have kept all my accounts going strictly from in-game isk.


tsk, I expect better than that of you, Q

You know that any plex has been paid for by somebody so your claim of free actually is 'I have other people to pay for it'

m

Note that I did not say that my choices had denied CCP income. I'm saying I didn't have to supply the income personally. In this sense, eve is "free."

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

drunklies
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#518 - 2015-10-15 18:24:57 UTC
Doing this would be like selling the soul of the game.

That CCP can't see that, and have gone so far as to publish a DEV BLOG about it, shows how they as a company have degraded.

Last week I was looking forward to Vegas, despite the idiotic idea to not stream the 2 most important talk this entire year, but now...

New players are all well and good, but vets have earned their place, and catering to bullsh*t entitlement will drive the valuable players away, without generating any real replacement.

Mike Azariah wrote:
For people quitting in protest I remind them that Operation Magic School Bus does accept donations to help out the new players. Yes, this is a 'can I haz' post but it is one where the material will be put to good use, not just lining a wallet or hanger. Contract to me if you wish to donate.

m


Sure, let me rip all the heritage out of my characters and of eve itself, cause some mewling newbie thinks they deserve to skip past the hoops that everyone else jumped through.
Stefan Silviu
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#519 - 2015-10-15 18:25:03 UTC
it smells like death , death of eve

it would be a much better ide that all transfered characters to get a free rename , hystory cleanup (employments , mails , deleted from all contacts) and a character resculpt ... or let the new owner to choose those within x days from transfer for a price ...
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#520 - 2015-10-15 18:25:10 UTC
Kilian Katar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Kilian Katar wrote:
ISK IRON BANK wrote:
Buy SP using plex

Buy char from Forum using plex


Not sure why everyone is getting excited over this.


Characters take time to train, their skills and how they are spread or dedicated defines their worth, they sometimes come with a background, there is risk involved for those that train to sell (the demand may vanish)

SP is SP and in its raw form will have a constant worth. 25m SP on the bazaar can vary wildly in price, in SP form it wouldn't


The SP will not be created out of thin air. They have to be drained from an existing character who took the time to train those SP.

FFS, read the Dev Blog and engage the brain people.



No **** sherlock, but when you extract that SP you can apply it anywhere so its worth is actually far more than when it is hard wired in some characters head. ALSO as an item in game, like plex it could be destroyed so CCP is not only allowing the destruction of money via plex, but also the destruction of skillpoints. (let alone the skill points that vanish into thin air when applied to characters not on the minimum threshhold)


When a PLEX is destroyed no money is destroyed.

As for the rest, so what? Yes SP packets will be more valuable given they can be applied anywhere. Don't care.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online