These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Kilian Katar
Unknown Enterprises
#221 - 2015-10-15 16:51:31 UTC
Tzu Wu wrote:
Ihfrit wrote:
as a player returning from my extended break i do every few years .. you just made me want to perma quit. this is an awful idea making this game pay to win.



Character Bazaar is already p2w, what the difference here guys? Do tell.



The character bazaar requires you to know something about the game to know what you are looking for, and ultimately as the blog points out means any character you buy can come with a less than favourable background. On top of this it is often used by older eve players buying or selling new boosters, carrier pilots miners etc as opposed to what is primarily a new character or relatively new character proposal by CCP Rise.
Trixi Laminer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#222 - 2015-10-15 16:51:39 UTC
I don't know if i care that much about the SP Smile
This wont affect the game that much that I can see, but maybe im too blind too see it.
Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#223 - 2015-10-15 16:51:40 UTC
You learned nothing from the Jita riots.

You learned nothing from the reasons your servers that used to have 70 to 90 thousand people on them two years ago now have 15 to 20 thousand people on them.

GG CCP.

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#224 - 2015-10-15 16:51:53 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Alt Pilot1 wrote:
Incurso wrote:
I don't get all the hate EVE already has a pay to win option. Anyone with to much real life money and not enough brains or patience can drop several hundred dollars on a bought toon then a pile of PLEX. You may or may not figure out how to play well but you can go from zero to high skill and high end ships with out ever undocking once and in a few hours.

I assume it doesn't happen much because you have to pay ALOT to win.

IDEA: If this happens can we get some sort of slop bucket to train points we intend to sell? I have no interest in capital ships and I'm nearly max SP on the things I want. I would trade SP for ISK. I just don't want to give up the stuff I have now.



I think because Eve has too much E-Peen.

A lot of older players want to be forever above the younger players, and don't want them to catch up that quickly.

This new SP transfer system can be really good for Eve Online in the long run. It'll make it more noob friendly.


Famous last words.

Yeah, how dare the game be more accessible!

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Atezaria
Yesterday is History Today is a Gift
#225 - 2015-10-15 16:51:58 UTC
I will have to say please do not do this CCP:

I understand the need for your firm to create revenue, but this is not the way to go I feel..

I kind of smell a huge potenial for CC scams which in turns will hit CCP's invoice system. and probably new ways to exploit the game for RM-traders, which we do not want..

So please CCP. Look into another way of creating revenue and to attract new ppl to the game :)

Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#226 - 2015-10-15 16:52:46 UTC
Esnaelc Sin'led wrote:
What if the extraction system was giving SP allocated ONLY in the same category of skill ?

Let's say you have all gunnerie for Lasorz, but you only fly matars (just example, it might sound stupid).
You chose to extract all thjose Lazors skills.
But once you chose to sell them to another player, he will only be able to allocate those SP in "Gunnery", not Armor, nore Shield, neither Missiles.


Ooo, I like this too. Split up TSP's by major skill categories, categorized separately on the market. It works to maintain the general commoditization of SP and simplification of bazaar/transfer, but ensures that people aren't just converting old mining/PI alts into supercap pilots and maintains at least some degree of the skill speculation/specialization elements of good bazaar trades.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#227 - 2015-10-15 16:53:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
CCP has come out with some pretty terrible ideas in their history but this one has got to be the worst.

-edit-

Ok, so I will take this suggestion seriously for a second and try and offer some constructive feedback.

First of all you do realise this will flood the market with SP as there are so many people with SP spent on skills that are useless to them.

So basically what this will be is an instant level up to 80mil SP; 80mil of unallocated SP. So your making the same mistake that Blizzard made when it effectively removed a good chunk of the starter experience and progressed everyone straight to level 80.

SP currently has a value which is determined by the amount of time it takes to accumulate, this is valued highly as the method by which it accrues can not be modified by play time or grinding and is relatively unchangeable across all characters, and is only marginally modified by implants. So by allowing SP to be traded on the market you will obviously massively reduce the value of SP.

This has many consequences, there are too many for me to detail here, but to put it simply in one fell swoop will destroy what has been a fundamental part of the game for the last 12 years. You will also ruin all of the hard work and good progress CCP have been putting in over the last couple of years to drive eve to be at the cutting edge of MMORPGs.

Why do you want to ruin the starter experience for new players by allowing them to skip through it anyway? The hard fix is to implement a more enjoyable starting experience which I can see you are struggling with and is a difficult task, but this quick fix solution which you suggest is definitely not the way forward. Unfortunately the only way is to carry on with what you have been doing so excellently in the last few years and put in the hard work to make eve a fundamentally better game.

So in essence this idea is one of the worse I've ever seen grace a devblog. I'd even be more inclined towards allowing people to completely wipe their characters name and history when doing a character transfer (with a good chunk of SP lost in the process). This would more elegantly solve the problems you list in the devblog, and most importantly would not devalue SP.
grevicious
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#228 - 2015-10-15 16:53:51 UTC
Daria3war wrote:
Love this idea . CCP thinking about the future of the game. L33T bitter vet get rekt. We need fresh players and new ideas. The old way of doing things is killing the game. +1 Let the tears flow




some people just dont want the game to go backwards is all. adding new players is good, be nicer if they had to put the same time in i did to achieve the skills i have, you are a new toon and there obviously all for PAY TO WIN , get rekt.
Glasgow Dunlop
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2015-10-15 16:54:05 UTC
Batten Down the hatches, Theres a 'hitstorm coming right this way . . . .

Personally P2W is bad, HOWEVER . . . if this was implimented in the same way as remaps ( ie you can remove skills once per year, and implant them, say twice) then it might be a better solution if you are really that keen to roll the dice.

@glasgowdunlop #tweetfleet

TDSIN Director : Join 'TDSIN pub' for more info, Join today!

Glasgow EVE Meets Organiser

Gigiarc
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#230 - 2015-10-15 16:54:13 UTC
This idea is actually extremely good. Excellent work on CCP's part.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#231 - 2015-10-15 16:54:27 UTC
Robert Warner wrote:
CCP Logibro wrote:
[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68656/1/skilltrade1_550.jpg[/img]
The Character Bazaar has been around for a while, allowing enterprising players to buy and sell characters from others. Lately, we've been exploring some new ideas around improving it, but ultimately realized that our effort was better spent investigating a similar idea: skill trading. This is a pretty big thing, so make sure you read the entire dev blog, and let us know what you think of the ideas inside.


While many of my compatriots will likely shun any notion of trading skill points, I must say the idea doesn't bother me (and yes I'm a player who has multiple characters over or approaching 200M SP). I don't mind certain ingrained mechanics being changed provided there is a rational reason behind it and that the solution is well conceived and well implemented (take note Fozzie sov).

My main concern is in pricing of the packet itself in Aurum: we are already developing a serious issue with the price of PLEX and without being a doomsayer, the game has lost 25% of its active player base since February of this year (source: Eve-offline.net) - an extraordinary statistic by any reckoning. My primary interest is seeing a recovery in player activity, for the good of both myself and the Developer.

While I'm sure CCP's accountants are eyeing this as a financial opportunity, I would very strongly suggest extreme caution in the introduction of further micro-transactions based on the PLEX/Aurum model at this time. Eve is currently in a very delicate position, following a number of somewhat dubious design changes, now requiring substantial time and investment to repair. If the game world loses critical mass of players, it may 'fail cascade' very quickly.

If such a feature really must be introduced within the next year, careful planning of pricing will be required to ensure no further stress is placed on the transferable game time market.

This is a fair point, but it's sort of looking at it the wrong way.

Right now, to affect a transfer of SP to a person, one has to pay 2 PLEX just to do the transfer. This is in addition to whatever deal the two parties struck.

Adding an aurum cost to skill extractors merely maintains this "tax;" it doesn't add a new source of pressure to PLEX. You can expect quite a bit of the pressure to PLEX applied by the Character Bazaar to be relieved as folks move to this more granular, personalizable system.

Of course, the transfer won't be perfect; it could indeed increase total PLEX pressure, or maybe even reduce it overall. It remains to be seen.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

O'b Haru Sen
Kameyama Shachuu
Mekharist Combine
#232 - 2015-10-15 16:54:40 UTC
Terrible idea. Here are two reason why:

1. For new players this will imply they need to buy SP to be more competitive, and since they don't have ISK, that means buying PLEX or Aurum. Now this generates income for CCP, but I would also expect it to raise the threshold to really play EVE significantly. Monthly subscription fee will not be enough, you will need to spend more money to buy into EVE.
So will this really generate more income via SP transfers or scare off new players enough for subscription numbers to fall? The SP gap is probably one of the most significant reasons not to start playing EVE already, I fear this will make it worse.

2. I payed CCP a significant amount of money for making competent specialised alts (hauler, scanner etc). SP transfers significantly devalue those in an instant and make me regret my decision to do so, thus I feel cheated as a customer.
I'm not whining, but you sure heard about the importance of customer SAT?

Although I am personally only affected by the 2nd, the 1st point troubles me most. It seems like selling out on EVE's future for short term gain.
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#233 - 2015-10-15 16:55:03 UTC
Buying skill points is something I have to think about, I think its good for bringing up characters.

Just make a limit in the consumption, so say 1 package a year or something, or make it so that you can buy upgrade slots with PLEX and the higher the SP of the char, the more PLEX to invest to up the char with slots for skillupgrades.

Just a question, will char transfers still be possible? I have moved alt spots between multiple accounts every year, its a great way to get your scan alt to a primary slot on a new account (example). Is that still possible?

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Tzu Wu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#234 - 2015-10-15 16:55:16 UTC
Broggo Yimmix wrote:
Bad idea CCP.

This looks alot like a pay to win scenario. Also it means people can do whatever with their characters and it doesn't change their value. High sec gank till you're as low as you can go then part out the toon > rinse and repeat; Awox to your hearts content then part out the toon and use the funds to start all over. It removes the lasting effects of a players actions and makes truly disposable toons of Value.

I don't mind the consmetic part of the store, but this is an apocalyptically bad decision. It makes monocle gate look positive in comparison.



You can already exchange tags for sec status. All of the stuff you mentioned is already doable via the character bazaar. This,trading of SP, has nothing to do with selling off a character with bad a bad reputation.
Gedalva
#235 - 2015-10-15 16:56:00 UTC
Not entirely sure how I feel about this...

On one hand - yes it would be fantastic to re-allocate skill points into something more useful. As others have stated if the blog post stated you pay "x amount" of aurum/plex to unlearn skill points (which by the way should still take time - on a seperate "unlearning skill queue") and then apply those points on the SAME character I don't think you'd be getting quite as much negative knee-jerk reaction.

On the other hand - I absolutely disagree with giving new players the ability to "catch-up" so easily. Granted this already happens in the current form of the character bazaar, but not to this extent. My personal feeling is that the current bazaar is used more by players who need alts to fill some role their main does not currently.

While I'll wait to pass judgement entirely until more details/discussions come of this. Initially it does have that "monocle" money grab type feeling.
Alt Pilot1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#236 - 2015-10-15 16:56:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Alt Pilot1
GUYS! Eve Online was already pay-to-win YEARS AGO, when they gave players the ability to sell GTC's for ISK. - The game has already been this way for YEARS. Stop using this as an excuse.

Now let your E-Peen go, and give the newer players some chance to catch up.

This new SP transfer system is brilliant, because it is simply a TRANSFER OF SKILL POINTS from the players who have it, to the players who don't.

This service DOES NOT create any SP out of thin air, so stop using that excuse.

This system can be really good for Eve in the long run, so let your E-Peen go. It is OK if a relatively new player can fly Dreadnaught V just like you. There has to be an older player willing to transfer the SP to the younger player.
Drilla
Core Excavation Technologies
#237 - 2015-10-15 16:56:41 UTC
The only way this could remotely be a good idea was if you could only transfer SP internally in your account and a character that has received SP can never be transferred off the account.

That will allow people to create specialized alts instead of having all SP on one char/queue.
Ghost Knighticus
Axiom Ultra
#238 - 2015-10-15 16:56:45 UTC
And so i seems to start the demise of eve and the start of a cash cow just like all the other mmo's

PAY2Win

I dont think so

Eve is a journey not a quick buck to win.

I can already see some newbie going and spending 100 plexes on getting a 4 month toon to fly a titan

It aint happening

I am against the idea

Bear
Margin Matters
Marginal Existence
#239 - 2015-10-15 16:57:08 UTC
Another unintended consequence, while this is supposed to help stop ebay sales, etc. I could see where there could be a breif market generated for long dead accounts for skill point liquidation.
Drilla
Core Excavation Technologies
#240 - 2015-10-15 16:57:49 UTC
Querns wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Alt Pilot1 wrote:
Incurso wrote:
I don't get all the hate EVE already has a pay to win option. Anyone with to much real life money and not enough brains or patience can drop several hundred dollars on a bought toon then a pile of PLEX. You may or may not figure out how to play well but you can go from zero to high skill and high end ships with out ever undocking once and in a few hours.

I assume it doesn't happen much because you have to pay ALOT to win.

IDEA: If this happens can we get some sort of slop bucket to train points we intend to sell? I have no interest in capital ships and I'm nearly max SP on the things I want. I would trade SP for ISK. I just don't want to give up the stuff I have now.



I think because Eve has too much E-Peen.

A lot of older players want to be forever above the younger players, and don't want them to catch up that quickly.

This new SP transfer system can be really good for Eve Online in the long run. It'll make it more noob friendly.


Famous last words.

Yeah, how dare the game be more accessible!


Because every time it's made more accessible it has increased the userbase right? That's why there are more online now than 5 years ago right?