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[Feature Request] Add Angular and Velocity to Locked Target's Info
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Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#1 - 2015-10-13 22:35:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashterothi
Right now angular velocity is a very obscure but important stat in the game. Your guns inform you how well they track based on this rads/sec, which is compared to the enemy Angular Velocity. However, to get your targets angular velocity, and thus be able to be a good pilot, you must ADD this column to your overview, as it is not default. However, this extra column takes up additional room in an already bloated spreadsheet.

The key is you don't really care about your angular velocity to anything besides what you are shooting at (same with standard velocity). If you care about that stat, chances are you have them locked. You already see name, hp percents, and distance in the targeting information area, so if you simply add angular and target velocity you grant easy access to that information for your pilots, help demonstrate the importance of that information for informed piloting decisions, and overall lower the learning curve, and lower the unneeded complexity in the UI System.

As far as moving velocity over, this will go a long way from breaking free of the need for tunnel vision of the overview during fights. Put the most relevant information on the target info box and allow the pilot to quickly assess the situation.

In addition, add the current tracking information to the hover over details of the weapons systems. That way a savvy pilot can quickly compare his current tracking vs the angular velocity of the target. This will also work to increase clarity of the effectiveness of tracking disruption, as their impact is hard to calculate in-the-moment as-is.

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Zorena
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#2 - 2015-10-13 23:10:00 UTC
Why dont go 1 step further and add current active signature radius, for ous with missiles?
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#3 - 2015-10-13 23:12:54 UTC
Zorena wrote:
Why dont go 1 step further and add current active signature radius, for ous with missiles?


We could go crazy and only show those stats if that ship has that weapon type outfitted

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May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#4 - 2015-10-13 23:27:44 UTC
If anything you're only shifting your tunnel vision from the overview (which provides a lot of useful information) to your locked targets (which provides some useful information about a selection of targets) while drastically reducing the amount of information you're receiving with no benefit.

Giving players the option of where to display this information is a good idea, simply shifting it from one section to another is not.

Quote:
As far as moving velocity over, this will go a long way from breaking free of the need for tunnel vision of the overview during fights. Put the most relevant information on the target info box and allow the pilot to quickly assess the situation.


Perhaps you should try engaging multiple targets (try more than you can lock at once) without a lot of this information on your overview and tell us how it goes. I suggest you learn to read the overview quicker instead of trying to break one of the only things in the game that actually works reasonably well.
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#5 - 2015-10-13 23:31:33 UTC
May Arethusa wrote:
If anything you're only shifting your tunnel vision from the overview (which provides a lot of useful information) to your locked targets (which provides some useful information about a selection of targets) while drastically reducing the amount of information you're receiving with no benefit.

Giving players the option of where to display this information is a good idea, simply shifting it from one section to another is not.

Quote:
As far as moving velocity over, this will go a long way from breaking free of the need for tunnel vision of the overview during fights. Put the most relevant information on the target info box and allow the pilot to quickly assess the situation.


Perhaps you should try engaging multiple targets (try more than you can lock at once) without a lot of this information on your overview and tell us how it goes. I suggest you learn to read the overview quicker instead of trying to break one of the only things in the game that actually works reasonably well.


You can still chose to have it on your over view as well if you like.

The point is different locations for different chunks of information. Your overview becomes your overall tactical situation and your locked targets are your in the moment engagement. In the same way as you don't see health of everyone on your overview. When I am fighting a specific person, I want all of the information about their ships status together in a visually process-able way.

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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#6 - 2015-10-13 23:40:21 UTC
Ashterothi wrote:
The key is you don't really care about your angular velocity to anything besides what you are shooting at (same with standard velocity). If you care about that stat, chances are you have them locked. You already see name, hp percents, and distance in the targeting information area, so if you simply add angular and target velocity you grant easy access to that information for your pilots, help demonstrate the importance of that information for informed piloting decisions, and overall lower the learning curve, and lower the unneeded complexity in the UI System.

While I understand what you're getting at, I would disagree that you don't need to care about it. It's incredibly helpful information for damage mitigation, especially when you're the primary.

That said, I do like the idea.

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Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#7 - 2015-10-13 23:45:32 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
Ashterothi wrote:
The key is you don't really care about your angular velocity to anything besides what you are shooting at (same with standard velocity). If you care about that stat, chances are you have them locked. You already see name, hp percents, and distance in the targeting information area, so if you simply add angular and target velocity you grant easy access to that information for your pilots, help demonstrate the importance of that information for informed piloting decisions, and overall lower the learning curve, and lower the unneeded complexity in the UI System.

While I understand what you're getting at, I would disagree that you don't need to care about it. It's incredibly helpful information for damage mitigation, especially when you're the primary.

That said, I do like the idea.


Depending on what you fly, and how you fly, you may want it on the overview so you can see that information for everyone. This is an additive change.

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Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2015-10-14 00:47:16 UTC
Hoooly damn yes.
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-10-14 00:58:48 UTC
This would be very easy to express in a % to hit % of damage blurb.. and outside of huge fleet fights where brackets are off(or fire.. you like fire right?) it would be a way to speed up information flow in fights. Maybe limit it to active target only to prevent it from dumbing down combat?

To clarify the % factor..
Turrets would function as direct % to hit. IE 85% means 85% chance to hit that target.
Missiles would function as % of damage that will be applied. IE 85% means out of 100 damage 85 will physically hit that target.

You could even jazz it up visually playing into the whole "captain not pilot" flavor by colorizing it.
0-30% Dark Red -> Orange
31-70% Orange -> Yellow Green
71-100% Yellow Green -> Bright Green

You could even center the number in the target circle when selected.
Montecore Qubaal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-10-14 01:06:27 UTC
I'm terrible at pvp. As a pvp newb, I really like this idea! I actually had this same thought last week when I was in an engagement and had trouble figuring out what was going on. I'm overwhelmed by all the information I need to consider to make decisions and all the places I have to look (space, locked targets, overview, modules, local, dscan) and the action is so fast, this all has to be done very quickly. It would be nice to not have to focus so deeply on the overview to find those numbers.

I think this should be an option that can but turned on or off.
Darirol
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2015-10-14 01:51:33 UTC
Nafensoriel wrote:
This would be very easy to express in a % to hit % of damage blurb.. and outside of huge fleet fights where brackets are off(or fire.. you like fire right?) it would be a way to speed up information flow in fights. Maybe limit it to active target only to prevent it from dumbing down combat?

To clarify the % factor..
Turrets would function as direct % to hit. IE 85% means 85% chance to hit that target.
Missiles would function as % of damage that will be applied. IE 85% means out of 100 damage 85 will physically hit that target.

You could even jazz it up visually playing into the whole "captain not pilot" flavor by colorizing it.
0-30% Dark Red -> Orange
31-70% Orange -> Yellow Green
71-100% Yellow Green -> Bright Green

You could even center the number in the target circle when selected.



i was brainstorming about something like that too. the only way to reduce the importance of the overview table would be to visualize important stuff in other ways, like color coding or changing the shape of the brackets based on some of the data.


but one problem is, if you present such important stuff in form of colors you have to solve issues with color blind customers. colors fading smoothly from red in to green is the best way to **** with people who have issues with color vision.
Minty Aroma
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-10-14 02:24:07 UTC
Darirol wrote:
Nafensoriel wrote:
This would be very easy to express in a % to hit % of damage blurb.. and outside of huge fleet fights where brackets are off(or fire.. you like fire right?) it would be a way to speed up information flow in fights. Maybe limit it to active target only to prevent it from dumbing down combat?

To clarify the % factor..
Turrets would function as direct % to hit. IE 85% means 85% chance to hit that target.
Missiles would function as % of damage that will be applied. IE 85% means out of 100 damage 85 will physically hit that target.

You could even jazz it up visually playing into the whole "captain not pilot" flavor by colorizing it.
0-30% Dark Red -> Orange
31-70% Orange -> Yellow Green
71-100% Yellow Green -> Bright Green

You could even center the number in the target circle when selected.



i was brainstorming about something like that too. the only way to reduce the importance of the overview table would be to visualize important stuff in other ways, like color coding or changing the shape of the brackets based on some of the data.


but one problem is, if you present such important stuff in form of colors you have to solve issues with color blind customers. colors fading smoothly from red in to green is the best way to **** with people who have issues with color vision.


Like the broadcast history, let the player change the colours to suit themselves - problem solved!
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-10-14 02:32:14 UTC
Grey hash gradients would be easy enough to use.. and as a bonus you wouldn't even need to change the color to make it work.

To clarify what i mean by grey hash.. It's a technique used to put a pattern within color bands to automatically give color blind people a means of distinguishing the color. Basically for them they get shade+pattern instead of color+shade. You can do this without creating a special option which means more money saved in development.
Minty Aroma
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-10-14 02:40:25 UTC
Nafensoriel wrote:
Grey hash gradients would be easy enough to use.. and as a bonus you wouldn't even need to change the color to make it work.

To clarify what i mean by grey hash.. It's a technique used to put a pattern within color bands to automatically give color blind people a means of distinguishing the color. Basically for them they get shade+pattern instead of color+shade. You can do this without creating a special option which means more money saved in development.


Will look terrible for everybody else though, especially in a game that prides itself in its aesthetics; better to make it an option for the colourblind.
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#15 - 2015-10-14 03:10:01 UTC
Nafensoriel wrote:
This would be very easy to express in a % to hit % of damage blurb.. and outside of huge fleet fights where brackets are off(or fire.. you like fire right?) it would be a way to speed up information flow in fights. Maybe limit it to active target only to prevent it from dumbing down combat?

To clarify the % factor..
Turrets would function as direct % to hit. IE 85% means 85% chance to hit that target.
Missiles would function as % of damage that will be applied. IE 85% means out of 100 damage 85 will physically hit that target.

You could even jazz it up visually playing into the whole "captain not pilot" flavor by colorizing it.
0-30% Dark Red -> Orange
31-70% Orange -> Yellow Green
71-100% Yellow Green -> Bright Green

You could even center the number in the target circle when selected.


I talked with several people about this.

The problem is giving someone a percent to hit may make things a bit too easy. If you make it clear what you CAN hit, and what they ARE at, you should be able to make a decision based on that. If you give a percent, you really actually confuse what is causing that percent to be that way.

The key is to give people what they need, where they need it, so they can make engaging decisions.

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Space Bunyip
Kraken Exploration and Janitorial Services
The Initiative.
#16 - 2015-10-14 03:45:56 UTC
That's frankly an amazingly good idea!
SpaceSaft
Almost Dangerous
Wolves Amongst Strangers
#17 - 2015-10-14 07:06:59 UTC
If there was tracking speed on the gun tooltip too, this would be useful. But there is no tracking on the gun tooltip. What a shame.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#18 - 2015-10-14 07:19:25 UTC
Support the option to select what info to show where (tooltip, locked target and so on) ONLY if we can get signature radius on the overview (and missile exp vel/rad on tooltip)
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-10-14 07:26:09 UTC
May Arethusa wrote:
If anything you're only shifting your tunnel vision from the overview (which provides a lot of useful information) to your locked targets (which provides some useful information about a selection of targets) while drastically reducing the amount of information you're receiving with no benefit.

Giving players the option of where to display this information is a good idea, simply shifting it from one section to another is not.

Quote:
As far as moving velocity over, this will go a long way from breaking free of the need for tunnel vision of the overview during fights. Put the most relevant information on the target info box and allow the pilot to quickly assess the situation.


Perhaps you should try engaging multiple targets (try more than you can lock at once) without a lot of this information on your overview and tell us how it goes. I suggest you learn to read the overview quicker instead of trying to break one of the only things in the game that actually works reasonably well.


What a terrible post.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
Faxat
#20 - 2015-10-14 10:01:37 UTC
While this seems like a good idea, the information you already have if you set overview correctly is far superior to this in fleet battles. The anchor can move tactically, calling out primaries based on how low the transversal # is, reading this from a list that ranks every target on overview based on this metric is invaluable

In solo pvp, this information doesnt really give you that much of an edge as you rarely are in situations that the information provided in realtime changes how you play. Either you are built for kiting or for brawling. No matter what information you get, the angular velocity is a factor of speed vs direction, when you kite keeping the speed and heading is 90% of the job already, knowing the angular velocity does not change that, neither does transversal.

Now, if you wanted to change somethibg for the better, let overviews have separate columns, depending on setups - this would be much more helpfull imo!

Faxat out! o/
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