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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Any news of a Faction Warfare change?
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#121 - 2015-10-08 23:38:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Arla Sarain wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
i also have to warp in to them. A risk that i accept but would be much closer to suicidal with no boosts, so it would just not happen.

But the risk is inherently due to plex mechanics landing you in a predictable place, not the lack of links. Pretty sure no one at CCP even thought about OGBs when plex mechanics were designed.

To justify links by saying that fighting uphill in a plex would be impossible without them is just implying that links should be mandatory for anyone who doesn't want to obtain plex fights exclusively by occupying the plex first, and instead desires to fight on both opportunities (sitting inside and jumping into).

In this regard, plex mechanics should change to favour neither player instead (through whatever method that would be), rather than give a free pass to those who "picked the right starting pokemon" and punish those who didn't. I highly doubt your decision to buy a link alt was a strategic decision and instead reactive in response to the power creep.


Boosts are older than FW.

Also, both of my main toons i created from scratch, ive never bought or sold a character.
May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#122 - 2015-10-09 00:17:55 UTC
Quote:
It is pretty clear to me that allot more people would be fighting in low sec plexes if it weren't for all the broken ogbs.


Unfortunately, this simply isn't true. For every person who claims not to fight because of links, there's someone who wouldn't fight without them. It's a crude approximation of course, but probably disturbingly accurate.

Risk assessment is the reason why a lot of people don't fight, and as the population ages it is only natural that they become better as a whole at evaluating the situation and deciding whether or not to take a fight. When I roam solo, I do so without links, and still find it difficult to get a fight. Either the occupant flees before i arrive, they're stabbed, or a frustrating mix of both. Plex mechanics are increasingly getting in the way of fights rather than facilitating them, and it's largely a result of the shift in focus FW has undergone.

System control means nothing beyond tier maintenance and docking rights, with the majority of systems having little or no value at all. With CCP's stance of medals being made abundantly clear recently, we've lost yet another reason for anyone to even consider flipping a war zone. It isn't until large entities decide to try their hand at FW that things heat up for a while, with BRAVE's recent arrival being a perfect example. Most "good" fights happen purely by accident, system sieges have had most of the fun sucked out of them by increasingly isk efficient doctrines being favoured due to their attritional nature.

Third parties control most of the meaningful assets within the war zones, which leaves militias essentially manufacturing ganks and easy kills as they roam around looking for fights that simply won't materialise, and if they do, one side has usually one-upped the other, which means the fight never happens.

In the end, links have very little to do with the stagnant nature of FW. Without a significant overhaul of the FW mechanics, I don't expect much to change. I'll leave you with a brief exchange I witnessed earlier today that perfectly highlights why FW is broken. A quick check of their killboards while I was running my plex revealed both were quad-stabbed with no weapons fitted. Also present in system, but silent for the duration was a similarly quad-stabbed Navy Vexor pilot.

Ranma Roxx > xFleuryx go the **** awas
Ranma Roxx > away
Ranma Roxx > if you please
xFleuryx > no screw u, this is my site
xFleuryx > i started it
Ranma Roxx > i was first here
Ranma Roxx > go away
xFleuryx > I was
xFleuryx > already 1 min off
Ranma Roxx > gal mil have more manners as you
xFleuryx > u just got here
xFleuryx > dude, you're a theif
Ranma Roxx > no
Ranma Roxx > yesturday the same
xFleuryx > then leave
Ranma Roxx > you always **** in my plexes arround
xFleuryx > I was here first
May Arethusa > so cute
xFleuryx > lol
xFleuryx > it's so anoying
xFleuryx > Melancholy I i'm quad stabbed, come to the medium and kill this incursus
Ranma Roxx > ^^
Ranma Roxx > so poor
xFleuryx > dude
xFleuryx > leave
Ranma Roxx > no i was first
xFleuryx > lol
xFleuryx > no u weren't
xFleuryx > ask Melancholy I
Melancholy I > holy **** this local chat is cancer, you win, i leave
xFleuryx > lol
Ranma Roxx > ^^
Ranma Roxx > fly save
Message > Site has been captured.
Ranma Roxx > i think we will share the next years our lps
xFleuryx > guess so
Ranma Roxx > deal!
May Arethusa > yeah, if only either of you had guns to resolve the issue properly
xFleuryx > hey Galenros May Arethusa i'll call you when there's 1 min left on this medium, can come grab some quick LP if you want
Galenros > no ty, dont use lp atm, but ty for the offer
xFleuryx > k, np
Galenros > should cash in the current ones in some point as well...
Galenros > you guys have fun here and shoot those reds away :)
xFleuryx > lol :)
Galenros > 07
xFleuryx > 7o
Ranma Roxx > i feel disapponted
Ranma Roxx > you here sine two days?
xFleuryx > i'm going to be here all month
Ranma Roxx > as i see galmil have got more manners as you
xFleuryx > but ya
xFleuryx > dude, you're a theif. stop talking
Ranma Roxx > you're funny
Ranma Roxx > :D
Ranma Roxx > thank you for entertaiment
xFleuryx > lol, w/e
xFleuryx > enjou half the LP for the next month
Ranma Roxx > i think you will lose more
Ranma Roxx > how many chars do you run?
Ranma Roxx > :)
xFleuryx > i'm running incursions right now, LP is worth nothing lol
xFleuryx > I have 6 toons on 3 accounts
Ranma Roxx > that's nice
Ranma Roxx > and now?
xFleuryx > it's not bad
xFleuryx > what?
Ranma Roxx > how many are in a plex right now?
xFleuryx > just one
Ranma Roxx > u see you loose
xFleuryx > other 2 are runnning boosted for an incusrion, and the other one is flying it in
xFleuryx > lose what?
Ranma Roxx > more lp as i
xFleuryx > lol
Ranma Roxx > so be afk again bab
Ranma Roxx > *a
xFleuryx > I make 240mil an hour if both my toons are runnig sites
xFleuryx > keep your ****** LP
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2015-10-09 03:17:57 UTC
May Arethusa wrote:
Quote:
It is pretty clear to me that allot more people would be fighting in low sec plexes if it weren't for all the broken ogbs.


Unfortunately, this simply isn't true. For every person who claims not to fight because of links, there's someone who wouldn't fight without them. It's a crude approximation of course, but probably disturbingly accurate.

Risk assessment is the reason why a lot of people don't fight, and as the population ages it is only natural that they become better as a whole at evaluating the situation and deciding whether or not to take a fight. When I roam solo, I do so without links, and still find it difficult to get a fight. Either the occupant flees before i arrive, they're stabbed, or a frustrating mix of both. Plex mechanics are increasingly getting in the way of fights rather than facilitating them, and it's largely a result of the shift in focus FW has undergone.

System control means nothing beyond tier maintenance and docking rights, with the majority of systems having little or no value at all. With CCP's stance of medals being made abundantly clear recently, we've lost yet another reason for anyone to even consider flipping a war zone. It isn't until large entities decide to try their hand at FW that things heat up for a while, with BRAVE's recent arrival being a perfect example. Most "good" fights happen purely by accident, system sieges have had most of the fun sucked out of them by increasingly isk efficient doctrines being favoured due to their attritional nature.

Third parties control most of the meaningful assets within the war zones, which leaves militias essentially manufacturing ganks and easy kills as they roam around looking for fights that simply won't materialise, and if they do, one side has usually one-upped the other, which means the fight never happens.

In the end, links have very little to do with the stagnant nature of FW. Without a significant overhaul of the FW mechanics, I don't expect much to change. I'll leave you with a brief exchange I witnessed earlier today that perfectly highlights why FW is broken. A quick check of their killboards while I was running my plex revealed both were quad-stabbed with no weapons fitted. Also present in system, but silent for the duration was a similarly quad-stabbed Navy Vexor pilot.

Ranma Roxx > xFleuryx go the **** awas
Ranma Roxx > away
Ranma Roxx > if you please
xFleuryx > no screw u, this is my site
xFleuryx > i started it
Ranma Roxx > i was first here
Ranma Roxx > go away
xFleuryx > I was
xFleuryx > already 1 min off
Ranma Roxx > gal mil have more manners as you
xFleuryx > u just got here
xFleuryx > dude, you're a theif
Ranma Roxx > no
Ranma Roxx > yesturday the same
xFleuryx > then leave
Ranma Roxx > you always **** in my plexes arround
xFleuryx > I was here first
May Arethusa > so cute
xFleuryx > lol
xFleuryx > it's so anoying
xFleuryx > Melancholy I i'm quad stabbed, come to the medium and kill this incursus
Ranma Roxx > ^^
Ranma Roxx > so poor
xFleuryx > dude
xFleuryx > leave
Ranma Roxx > no i was first
xFleuryx > lol
xFleuryx > no u weren't
xFleuryx > ask Melancholy I
Melancholy I > holy **** this local chat is cancer, you win, i leave
xFleuryx > lol
Ranma Roxx > ^^
Ranma Roxx > fly save
Message > Site has been captured.
Ranma Roxx > i think we will share the next years our lps
xFleuryx > guess so
Ranma Roxx > deal!
May Arethusa > yeah, if only either of you had guns to resolve the issue properly
xFleuryx > hey Galenros May Arethusa i'll call you when there's 1 min left on this medium, can come grab some quick LP if you want
Galenros > no ty, dont use lp atm, but ty for the offer
xFleuryx > k, np
Galenros > should cash in the current ones in some point as well...
Galenros > you guys have fun here and shoot those reds away :)
xFleuryx > lol :)
Galenros > 07
xFleuryx > 7o
Ranma Roxx > i feel disapponted
Ranma Roxx > you here sine two days?
xFleuryx > i'm going to be here all month
Ranma Roxx > as i see galmil have got more manners as you
xFleuryx > but ya
xFleuryx > dude, you're a theif. stop talking
Ranma Roxx > you're funny
Ranma Roxx > :D
Ranma Roxx > thank you for entertaiment
xFleuryx > lol, w/e
xFleuryx > enjou half the LP for the next month
Ranma Roxx > i think you will lose more
Ranma Roxx > how many chars do you run?
Ranma Roxx > :)
xFleuryx > i'm running incursions right now, LP is worth nothing lol
xFleuryx > I have 6 toons on 3 accounts
Ranma Roxx > that's nice
Ranma Roxx > and now?
xFleuryx > it's not bad
xFleuryx > what?
Ranma Roxx > how many are in a plex right now?
xFleuryx > just one
Ranma Roxx > u see you loose
xFleuryx > other 2 are runnning boosted for an incusrion, and the other one is flying it in
xFleuryx > lose what?
Ranma Roxx > more lp as i
xFleuryx > lol
Ranma Roxx > so be afk again bab
Ranma Roxx > *a
xFleuryx > I make 240mil an hour if both my toons are runnig sites
xFleuryx > keep your ****** LP



Bob wept.
per
Terpene Conglomerate
#124 - 2015-10-11 13:01:52 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


Boosts are older than FW.



well they might be older than fw but they havent been always so op
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#125 - 2015-10-11 13:35:32 UTC
No, they used to be slightly more powerful.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2015-10-11 13:45:15 UTC
May Arethusa wrote:
Quote:
It is pretty clear to me that allot more people would be fighting in low sec plexes if it weren't for all the broken ogbs.


Unfortunately, this simply isn't true.
I disagree.


Assuming you enjoy EVE PVP, you'll fight if:

a) you have the necessary resources (ISK, logistics in the hauling sense, SP to fly the appropriate ship, etc.)

b) you believe you have a reasonable chance to win, or at least have an enjoyable fight for example killing something before you die


FW LP, a decently organised corp (or DIY hauling if you enjoy it) and some patience (training time) pretty much take care of a).

Regarding b), everyone has their own personal risk adversity, some low some high, that's a given independently of game mechanics. The fact with OGB though is that it adds a pretty significant level of uncertainty to everyone's pre-fight risk-assessment.

Yes, over time you come to know the 'usual suspects' who always fly boosted in a certain area. But if you like to roam you'll often be in a situation where you really don't know who's boosted and who's not.


So I'll throw in a simple idea: make 'boosted' (as in warfare links, not fleet leadership bonuses) a status that shows up in local and on-grid (same as the 'suspect' status, for example). Then let the meta sort itself out, 'in the open' so to speak.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#127 - 2015-10-11 17:16:08 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
No, they used to be slightly more powerful.


T3s came after faction war.

Although that was the point where people could start using boosts the percentages of people actually using them did not seem to get out of hand until later.

The bonuses themselves may have decreased but because ccp gave us other mods that work especially well with ogb like better active tank ships and mods as well as better bonuses to those mods there effect was largely unaffected and over the years they have arguably even become more powerfull.

Of course with time there will continue to be more available characters trained with the leadership and other skills necessary to run ogb. And I think we see more and more of their use. (but I admit that is somewhat anecdotal afaik ccp has not released any data on how many more kills use a booster. I would love to see that data.)

CCP did allot of things that made low sec pvp much better over the last few years e.g., fw and crime watch changes. And according to dotlan in 2013 and 2014 we had over 4 million kills in low sec. In 2015 we are currently sitting at about 2.8 million. Now we still have 2.7 months to go. And there are allot of null sec entities coming in. But it is good to see the statistics before the influx of null sec pilots which for reasons unrelated to low sec mechanics might boost the pvp. So we see 4m/12 = over 333k kills/ month for 2013 and 2014. 2015 we have 2.8/10.3 =271k kills per month. Thats a 20% decline.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats/2015

2013 and 2014 saw much more pvp than 2012 and earlier years. You would think as people get more pvp fights that in itself would draw more people to low sec and we would see the numbers continue to snowball upward. Even with the numbers plateauing in 2013-2014 that would be a sign something is amiss. That is what makes this reversing of the trend particularly odd.

Faction war hasn't changed that much since then. Other low sec mechanics haven't changed that much AFAIK. I would at least posit that the ogb cancer spreading is a very important factor.

If you want to blame bad null sec changes for the decline in numbers generally that really shouldn't effect low sec pvp that much. If anything we are seeing many of those players would come over to low sec so it might actually be helping low sec.

I did also predict that the changes to faction war done on october 22nd 2012 would eventually lead to stagnation. But I would have thought that the increase in kills in 2013 could have made up for that at least in the kill statistics. Sure people might have less interest in faction war sov but I would think the increase in pvp would continue to draw more players.

I have a strong hunch broken ogbs are a big contributing reason for this decline. But I would be interested in other views.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#128 - 2015-10-11 17:27:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
No they arnt.

There has been little appetite to fight for sov in meat grinders until this month and brave entering FW, but the choice not to push the warzone and generate ludicrous numbers of kills has not at all had anything to do with OGB or FW stagnating. Sorry.

It simply takes a level of willpower and support to mobilise and deploy and up to now no one has pressed that button for a while.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#129 - 2015-10-11 18:05:04 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
No they arnt.

There has been little appetite to fight for sov in meat grinders until this month and brave entering FW, but the choice not to push the warzone and generate ludicrous numbers of kills has not at all had anything to do with OGB or FW stagnating. Sorry.



No one pushing the warzone and generating kills has nothing to do with fw stagnating? It seems to me they pretty close to the same thing.

The question is what has lead players to be uninterested in pushing the warzone to generate pvp? Now if all of a sudden null sec got so much better that might explain why low sec became stagnant. (but the statistics don't really show that)

I agree that null sec corps coming to faction war space (and some even into faction war) should help increase the kills. But it would be odd to then say ogb has increased the pvp in low sec. These groups coming to fw low sec is not because low sec all of a sudden got better. At least it objectively has not changed since 2013 other than having fewer kills and people. I don't think these groups would think fewer kills and fewer people is good. It has more to do with these groups' perception that null sec got worse for them.

In the end we should try to isolate and remove confounding variables like what is happening in null sec in assessing how things are going in low sec. We should expect that if pvp increases in low sec as it did in 2013 then it should continue to snowball up if nothing else is at work. More people coming to low sec and finding more and more pvp should lead to more people coming to low sec for pvp and more pvp etc etc. Saddly we did not see that. We saw a proliferation of ogb in low sec and the amount of pvp plateaued and is now actually dropping.

What other causes do you attribute this to other than ogb proliferating?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#130 - 2015-10-11 18:13:17 UTC
Lack of a narrative to drive a huge operation. The foresight to know the costs in time, isk and sleep for those involved and the fact that it was really up to caldari to roll the dice in our warzone since gallente was pretty much where we wanted to be. Cal mil lacked the confidence to push and the odd time they tried we smacked it down. Brave arriving has delivered the narrative, so it just come down to who has the most time, isk and sleeps the least :)

OGB wouldnt even feature on a list of why operations have been slow this year.

Amarr/matar WT is currently changing hands. Not sure how many fights they are getting but saying FW is stagnating when systems have started changing hands on all sides of the warzone would be incorrect.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2015-10-11 18:52:56 UTC
Cearain wrote:
No one pushing the warzone and generating kills has nothing to do with fw stagnating? It seems to me they pretty close to the same thing.

omissis

What other causes do you attribute this to other than ogb proliferating?

Though I certainly recognize the influence of OGB on the solo/small gang meta, I frankly never once, in 2+ years of FW fleet combat, heard a galmil FC take or not a fight because of boosts/lack of them.

We fly just as often with boost than without. When we have them, oftentimes the dude with the booster alt has to drop fleet at one point to go eat/work/make sweet love to his gf/whatever; no-one cares, we just keep on going. Maybe an hour after someone else puts links up, or maybe not, the squids die anyway. Pirate

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2015-10-12 00:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Demerius Xenocratus
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Cearain wrote:
No one pushing the warzone and generating kills has nothing to do with fw stagnating? It seems to me they pretty close to the same thing.

omissis

What other causes do you attribute this to other than ogb proliferating?

Though I certainly recognize the influence of OGB on the solo/small gang meta, I frankly never once, in 2+ years of FW fleet combat, heard a galmil FC take or not a fight because of boosts/lack of them.

We fly just as often with boost than without. When we have them, oftentimes the dude with the booster alt has to drop fleet at one point to go eat/work/make sweet love to his gf/whatever; no-one cares, we just keep on going. Maybe an hour after someone else puts links up, or maybe not, the squids die anyway. Pirate


I've never been in a serious (doctrine with logi) Galmil fleet that did not have at least one booster. Most of the active FC's have an OGB alt. The advantage in fleet EHP alone is just too overpowering.

Making a semi-AFK alt an entry requirement for PvP is bad. The argument that links create content because one guy can fly circles around unlinked e-uni and brave blobs is nonsense. For every fight like that there's many more that didn't happen because one side recognized the futility of trying to catch linked snaked nano kiters with no links of their own, and docked up.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#133 - 2015-10-12 09:54:16 UTC
You think brave or eve uni dont have links?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#134 - 2015-10-12 13:44:12 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
You think brave or eve uni dont have links?


Are you asking if there is a single person in those entire alliances that has links? If so the answer is yes. Or are you asking if every pvp pilot from those corps always has links every time they pvp? Then the answer is no.

Again they get the impression that leaving the blob = getting ganked. Eve wasn't always that way.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#135 - 2015-10-12 14:09:00 UTC
You seem to be speaking for a great many people there. Im not sure you have the perspective to do so. I think you are working on assumptions.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#136 - 2015-10-12 14:29:21 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
You seem to be speaking for a great many people there. Im not sure you have the perspective to do so. I think you are working on assumptions.



Well we can look at the evidence. Which includes the fact that one of the most supported player requests that has yet to be implemented is to put boosts on grid. It is likely the most common topic that players have consistently told ccp is terrible for the game leading right up to the current decline in numbers.

Of course you are going to pretend you don't hear what the players are saying. And pretend ogb is not contributing to people choosing to do other things with their time.

Sure we can ask *how much* it is contributing to players not being as interested in the game. Even in my own case I can say I would probably go back to doing some low sec pvp if they removed ogb, but there are other things at work as well. But in light of the constant dissatisfaction expressed by players, one would have to be completely deaf to then wonder if it is effecting their interest in the game.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#137 - 2015-10-12 15:03:03 UTC
There is no conversation for keeping OGB OG. So its very hard to make a comparison. The vocal minority is never really representative of the whole.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#138 - 2015-10-20 12:12:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Colt Blackhawk
Honestly this game is broken like piece of **** and there are enough idiots in this game not getting it.

Just did my first fw missions after long fw break and really: THE ISK/H IS CRAZY.

So we have:
1.) Total idiots (for example goons) ratting in 0.0 sov with same income like lv4 missions in highsec. Maybe 80mil/h up to 100mil/h if done right.
3.) Incursion runners at maybe 120 mil isk/h.
3.) NPC 0.0 mission running ranging from 125mil/h up to 250mil/h.
4.) FW mission running ranging from 150mil/h up to once even 450mil/h while risking less than the three other methods before.

I didn´t list wh income because I have no clue.
But hey CCP: I know you can´t fix idiots ratting in 0.0 sov because you can´t sell brains to them BUT lowsec fw mission income is crazy for over three years now and beyond anything you can make in 0.0.
Until this is not fixed this game is kinda COMPLETELY BROKEN.

Edit: I did the maths and I made today easily 330mil in 1h and 31 minutes. In lean back mode. Crazy.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#139 - 2015-10-20 13:14:25 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Honestly this game is broken like piece of **** and there are enough idiots in this game not getting it.

Just did my first fw missions after long fw break and really: THE ISK/H IS CRAZY.

So we have:
1.) Total idiots (for example goons) ratting in 0.0 sov with same income like lv4 missions in highsec. Maybe 80mil/h up to 100mil/h if done right.
3.) Incursion runners at maybe 120 mil isk/h.
3.) NPC 0.0 mission running ranging from 125mil/h up to 250mil/h.
4.) FW mission running ranging from 150mil/h up to once even 450mil/h while risking less than the three other methods before.

I didn´t list wh income because I have no clue.
But hey CCP: I know you can´t fix idiots ratting in 0.0 sov because you can´t sell brains to them BUT lowsec fw mission income is crazy for over three years now and beyond anything you can make in 0.0.
Until this is not fixed this game is kinda COMPLETELY BROKEN.

Edit: I did the maths and I made today easily 330mil in 1h and 31 minutes. In lean back mode. Crazy.



Stop doing FW missions Colt, they rot your brain. Welcome back btw o7

All they need to do is nerf the excessive high tier bonus's to LP rewards and then implement the planned alterations to Missions that mean you have to risk a bit more. A FW Mission should not get 150% payout at tier 3, 175% at tier 4 and 225% at tier 5. They're too high.

I recommend the high tiers have no bonus's to rewards and should instead provide discounts on things that are not wealth accumulation. Such as discounts to repair costs, contract costs, manufacturing costs, research costs, Militia I-hub donation costs, concord sec status repair costs, etc..

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#140 - 2015-10-20 13:38:59 UTC
Cearain wrote:


No one pushing the warzone and generating kills has nothing to do with fw stagnating? It seems to me they pretty close to the same thing.




Sorry Cearain but you are wrong on this one. We don't push the warzone because we want an extremely strong PVP ecosystem at the moment. There are still enough people in Gal Mil with the know how, as well as pilots with the skills and gumption, to take the warzone. It would totally suck at the moment due to how much neckbearding we would have to do in the AU tz due to Cal AU tz strength, but it would be doable.

Having said that, it would be a terrible idea. In fact, we don't even want to take Caldari home systems. Killing off all your targets is a great way to end up with no targets.

- Than

JUSTK is recruiting