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CSMX - SUMMIT I

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per
Terpene Conglomerate
#141 - 2015-10-06 05:31:20 UTC
Cearain wrote:

New players are also disappointed that no one in fw really cares about who is winning sov.


i see this all the time in militia chat, someone new comes, is happy about giving intel about some enemies, trying to fleet up with others, going to most contested systems to fight .... hour later he finds out none really cares much ... never hear of him again
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#142 - 2015-10-06 06:45:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
per wrote:
Cearain wrote:

New players are also disappointed that no one in fw really cares about who is winning sov.


i see this all the time in militia chat, someone new comes, is happy about giving intel about some enemies, trying to fleet up with others, going to most contested systems to fight .... hour later he finds out none really cares much ... never hear of him again


If you care about rhat person its up to you to take them under wing. Blaming the game for your apathy is silly.

Also, just remove fw missions from the game, stop enemy fw pilots from docking in hostile empire stations in low-highsec and remove any CSM that thinks NPC buffs are a solution to anything..
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#143 - 2015-10-06 07:39:09 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
per wrote:
Cearain wrote:

New players are also disappointed that no one in fw really cares about who is winning sov.


i see this all the time in militia chat, someone new comes, is happy about giving intel about some enemies, trying to fleet up with others, going to most contested systems to fight .... hour later he finds out none really cares much ... never hear of him again


If you care about rhat person its up to you to take them under wing. Blaming the game for your apathy is silly.



Crosi, this is not what is important to discuss right now in a CSM minutes thread IMHO. I am afraid that this will derail the discussion and remove focus from the IMO really important questions being asked.

If the fw minutes contain all the conversation that was done in this session, I wonder why no one of the CSM raised concern about CCP not having a long time plan for FW and its gameplay mechanics? Just adding NPC patrols and say it will probably fix things, should raise some kind of critique from the CSM IMO.

I am also dissapointed about that people have used so much time thinking about how to improve FW, and give it to their respective CSMs and then so little of it is even discussed.

Ps. I appreciate the smaller changes like going suspects upon entering plex, but the lack of goals and direction for the future annoys me a little.

best regards

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#144 - 2015-10-06 14:19:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
In reading these notes it is clear that ccp and csm are severely underestimating faction war’s potential. The changes are not the worst but they demonstrate a lack of understanding the big picture with faction war and eve. The comments are focused on isk for new players. But people are not leaving eve because they can not make isk. They are leaving eve because there are no fun wars to fight. Isk can only be used in game so the people no longer logging are not really going to care about it. But I bet many would care if eve suddenly had allot of fun pvp wars to fight in.

CCP is clearly trying to shape mechanics in Null Sec to create fun wars for players. But the stakes of null sec and the will of the null sec leadership to make isk (as opposed to war) all make this a bit more challenging. Faction war, on the other hand, is the perfect venue for ccp to really create a fun war where players can blow their isk fighting.

What do I consider fun? Frequent, quality, pvp engagements. How frequent? I think a faction war players who are fully engaged in sov warfare should be able to get about 10 decent fights in 3 hours of play. It is very disheartening to spend the time to get the isk, spend the time to figure out your fits and and fleet comps, and then you just spend another 2 hours online with few decent fights. Good fights happen. But they are not frequent enough, and they often are just random with no context of achieving any sov war aims.

What do I think is boring? Having several alts orbit buttons ready to flee at the first sign of trouble. Yet this is the best way to gain vp in faction war. And vp is the best metric to see who is winning the sov war. So currently, if you really want to win sov for your faction, then get alts out there.

What can ccp do to make faction war sov more fun and exciting? They already said they would do it!

October 22nd 2012 CCP Fozzie said:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

“The Rest of the Plan
There are some other changes to the rest of our original roadmap that we are making after consultation with the community:

...

We will be attempting to release two new features to the FW complexes that have been suggested many times by the FW community to increase PVP opportunities in complexes:

Have plex capture timers count backwards to the default state when no players are contesting them.”


http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/73491?_ga=1.227194526.2033440685.1432326094

Yes that was almost 3 years ago. In the meantime players asked again what is happening with this mechanic and we got the response:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

“Our position on timer rollbacks has not changed. We'd like to do them at some point, but they will not be coming in Kronos.”


Now we see a csm summit with no mention of it. Yet we see they implemented something similar in null sec within a few months of the issue coming to a head. This again shows that ccp does not realize the potential that faction war has to be a very fun and exciting form of pvp warfare. It has potential even beyond that of null sec due to various reasons.

Players have been asking for better real time intel tools to know when complexes are being attacked so that they can fight for the plex in pvp. This would allow fast paced/frequent pvp. No more joining a war and wasting your time “roaming” around looking for a random fight. We should be able to go right to the place we need to defend.
Again ccp had said they are onboard with this.

CCP Yitterbium said:
CCP Yitterbium wrote:

"Q: LET'S GET BETTER NOTIFICATION/INTEL TOOLS WITH SYSTEM UPGRADES MR. HOLMES!
A: Interesting argument Dr. Watson. More water Sir? We definitely agree having better notification tools should be part of the whole package, but it should maybe be independent of Factional Warfare and something you need in all cases. After all, Starbase, corporation, war declaration notifications also need love too, let's not be selfish here. Such revamp is in the pipeline, even not for immediate release. Better intel tools for system upgrades however is definitely something we are thinking about."
CCP Ytterbium
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/107405-1/page/6#176
That was August of 2012.

So CCP has already said they are onboard. They clearly realize eve needs more fun engaging pvp warfare. CCP has said they would do the things that need to be done to make fw a fun pvp war to fight in. Yet years go by and we end up with summit minutes that do not even address the mechanics that would make fw a fun war to fight.

Instead half the session is about some new pve tribute system that really has nothing to do with fw. And when they do talk about faction war they talk about adding some new rats and nerfing missions. Both of these can be good but they really have very little to do with the actual sov war. Some changes are actually problematic.

The changes regarding standing are perhaps not so awful in themselves but it suggests ccp is looking in the wrong direction. Why would they do this? Is it so that alts can easily switch sides when one faction gains a higher tier? Is that really the vision for faction war?

CCP needs to keep their eye on the ball. The players have told ccp that their vision for faction sov warfare is fast paced quality pvp. How is allowing alts I mean players to easily switch factions going to accomplish that? How is adding rat patrols going to accomplish that? How is fiddling with missions going to accomplish that?

There are already allot of pve mechanics. Sleepers, incursions, belt ratting, incurstions, missions in high low and null sec, Faction war missions, cosmos missions, epic arc missions etc etc. We don’t need to make faction war sov plexing yet another pve farm. EVE needs fun pvp wars not more pve.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#145 - 2015-10-06 17:07:41 UTC
Cearain thanks for remembering all those things and writing it down. I entirely forgot that we already had some devs on our side regarding timer rollbacks. I had it somehow wrong stored in memory and could not remember any direct dev replies on that topic.

btw timer rollbacks in ageis sov for those interested

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Thorin Matarielle
The All-Seeing Eye
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#146 - 2015-10-06 20:18:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorin Matarielle
Bienator II wrote:


btw timer rollbacks in ageis sov for those interested



It' makes me sad that nullsec gets rollback before FW. We were asking for it since years (2-3) still nothing. But I am very happy that nullsec is fixed. Maybe we should stop asking for it and we would suddenly get it as well...