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[December] Discovering a New Expedition Frigate

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Author
Aivlis Eldelbar
Foxholers
Outfoxed
#61 - 2015-10-03 01:58:59 UTC
Sorry if this has been asked already, but why allow the Prospect to fit a covops cloak and not this one?
Alternatively, could you decouple the covert bridgeability from the covops cloak to allow this new frigate to be inserted via blops portal like the Prospect?
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#62 - 2015-10-03 02:27:03 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Selaria Unbertable wrote:
CCP Terminus wrote:

Discovery

...

Role Bonuses:
  • 200% bonus to Mining yield


Are you sure it's not 100%? 200% would mean it can harvest 3 blocks per cycle. With all those duration reductions, that seems pretty strong. I mean, that would theoretically even surpass a Hulk. Not that I'm not fond of a pure ice harvesting ship, but that seems a lot... Looks like I have to train another alt into Expedition frigates sooner than later.

it says mining yield, so I was assuming that doesn't count vs ice. otherwise I think it would be insane for mining ice Shocked


You're right, a 200% bonus to ice harvesting would be a little too much and quite overpowered.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#63 - 2015-10-03 02:27:18 UTC
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
Sorry if this has been asked already, but why allow the Prospect to fit a covops cloak and not this one?
Alternatively, could you decouple the covert bridgeability from the covops cloak to allow this new frigate to be inserted via blops portal like the Prospect?

If they did this, then the Prospect would have no reason to exist. Tradeoffs are important.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#64 - 2015-10-03 02:30:53 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
This ship uses the same skill as the prospect. They're not adding a new skill for it, they're adding another ship that is available to people who already have expedition frigates.


Thank you, dear for clearing that up.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#65 - 2015-10-03 02:37:18 UTC
Petrified wrote:
I am a bit curious how many people actually use the Prospect for mining? I would assume enough to generate the development of this new ship?


I do sometimes. It may only be 3 or 4 times a year that I mine but the Prospect is an amazing mining boat, so I have my depot nearby and put either mining lasers or deep core miners on - that mercoxite doesn't mine itself.

The first time it was a necessaty because I lost my dearest Procurer with a failed bait attempt. Mining speed it roughly even to the Procurer a (tiny) bit less orebay but I mean you already have 10k m³ and frigate mobility - what's not to like?

Can't wait to sneak into the next c13 and collect some ice.


Oh btw, can we get a 20 or 35mbit dronebay?

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#66 - 2015-10-03 02:55:48 UTC
Okay, just did the math again (I assume this is correct, slightly drunk at the moment Blink):

An Ice Harvester II has a cycle time of 250s. Ice Harvesting 5 reduces the cycle time by 25%. This results in (I use the Skiff for comparison, since I usually use it for ice harvesting):


Skiff:

  • Mining Barge 5: 10% reduction in cycle time
  • Exhumer 5: 10% reduction in cycle time
  • Role Bonus 5: 60% reduction in cycle time

That results (all bonuses are multiplied) in:
0.75 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.4 * 250s = 60.75s (without rigs or Ice Harvester Upgrades)

Discovery:

  • Expedition Frigate 5: 25% reduction in cycle time
  • Mining Frigat 5: 25% reduction in cycle time
  • Role Bonus 5: 50% reduction in cycle time

That results (all bonuses are multiplied) in:
0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.5 * 330s = 69.91s (Ice Mining Laser II without rigs or Ice Harvester Upgrades)

This is actually pretty close. Both ships have the same ore hold size, but the Discovery will be much cheaper (at least after a few weeks). If you don't want to skill into mining barges/exhumers, this seems to be a valid alternative. Can't wait to get my hands on a few of those.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#67 - 2015-10-03 03:14:47 UTC
So about that small mercoxit mining rig...
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#68 - 2015-10-03 05:19:52 UTC
I think the cargo hold is a bit to big and the mining bonus a bit to strong comparatively imo but its not bad and will fill that role very well. But 9 secs difference in cycle times for a max skilled skiff and this new ship is a bit close. And the likely price difference between ships is huge. It will also nearly make ganking a miner impossible. Gank starts landing you cloak up and bugger off. Orbit a roid with full AB on with skiff sized ore bay potential? Yeah you need to nerf it a bit in one area either cargo hold or cycle time.

The other factor will be price imo. To create a ship thats roughly the same as the cost of the prospect means you get skiff abilities for a fraction of the cost for replacement and made them cheaper than the t1 barges for the job. As much as I will love to see the ganker tears as miners retrain and use these to blot out the skies Id love to see a restriction on their use in high sec only, that is to say to NOT be able to be used in high at all. These are perfect for low, null and whs and should be restricted to it as such. Leaving them able to fly in all areas of space(high sec) as will be a mistake imo.



As for the people wondering why the venture shouldnt have this is this fact: Skill for operation of Expedition Frigates.

This skill cannot be trained on Trial Accounts.

If you give the ice mining laser to the venture youll get this.... BOTS!! BOTS AS FAR AS THE EYE CAN SEE!! And on trial accounts as throwaway ice miners. Yeah no sorry thatd be DUMB! As it stands itll take a full paid account to get there.

And a yes to the small ice and merc rigs as well.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#69 - 2015-10-03 05:27:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransu Asanari
So just make the Ice Harvesting skill not trainable on Trial accounts. Problem solved.

I don't think we should be balancing based on what we think bots could do anyways.
Glasgow Dunlop
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#70 - 2015-10-03 07:09:07 UTC
This ship better come as a default blue/white ;)

with a nice 'X' design ;D

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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#71 - 2015-10-03 07:22:38 UTC
Cool. Dat turret slot, nothing could go wrong. nothing.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2015-10-03 10:03:11 UTC
..... 15 Icecubes? That does not compare well to mining barges and exhumers alike. A cruiser sized hull is supposed to carry MORE, not less than a frig!

The 10k a Prospect could carry sounded okay-ish for the price, and I get that the non-cloaky version has to do better; but then I'd rather go for 7500 on the Prospect and 10000 on the Discovery. Otherwise, you risk obsoleting the Exhumer series altogether.
Aurure
some random local shitlords
#73 - 2015-10-03 11:09:22 UTC
With respective skills to V, a Tech 2 or ORE miner and 2 Tech 2 ILUs, this thing should fill it's cargo in just under 13 minutes and, assuming jetcanmining, be able to pull about 42m ISK/hr mining Dark Glitter.

Neat!
Malice Redeemer
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2015-10-03 11:15:09 UTC
Mr Grape Drink wrote:
Galphii wrote:
Seems like a reasonable frigate with a very niche purpose (as t2 ships generally are).

I do question the value of the ORE mining lasers and strips. Slightly better range is basically useless, especially for the prices these things tend to go for. How about a slightly better cycle time instead? More incentive to use them and of course more to lose when the ships explodes Big smile


Another who agrees with me :D


Ya, I'm sure that will help with the prices. * eyeroll*
CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#75 - 2015-10-03 11:15:31 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Terminus
Kibitt Kallinikov wrote:
CCP Terminus wrote:
So without further ado, here are the stats:

Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 50 / 40 / 20
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 60 / 10 / 25 / 35


Interesting resist profile you have there. Did you swap Therm and Exp on accident?

Also, t2 ORE resists when? (said the PvP pilot)


Might have, should be the same as the Prospect, which has the Gallente spread

Edit: You were correct I mixed up the order of the resistances, should be corrected now.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters

CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#76 - 2015-10-03 11:33:50 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Terminus
Selaria Unbertable wrote:
CCP Terminus wrote:

Discovery

...

Role Bonuses:
  • 200% bonus to Mining yield


Are you sure it's not 100%? 200% would mean it can harvest 3 blocks per cycle. With all those duration reductions, that seems pretty strong. I mean, that would theoretically even surpass a Hulk. Not that I'm not fond of a pure ice harvesting ship, but that seems a lot... Looks like I have to train another alt into Expedition frigates sooner than later.


Durakili wrote:
Although- if those yields stay, I'm going to ditch my Hulk miners and just run these puppies. The yield puts it in Hulk territory, with a faster align potential (and sig tanking rats as well)...


That's the bonus to ore yield, it doesn't affect ice.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#77 - 2015-10-03 14:29:31 UTC
Why not just give this a Covert Ops cloak and be done with it?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Aurure
some random local shitlords
#78 - 2015-10-03 21:18:15 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Why not just give this a Covert Ops cloak and be done with it?


Because they obviously want you to see it on dscan when it's warping.
Lelira Cirim
Doomheim
#79 - 2015-10-03 21:34:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lelira Cirim
Discoverice?
Dicecovery?
Da ice recovery?
Just spitballing my ship names, carry on.

Do not actively tank my patience.

Beta Maoye
#80 - 2015-10-03 23:47:45 UTC
Remove the cloaking bonuses. Give it turrets, ewar mid slots and damage bonus, i.e. a combat mining frigate.