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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Does warp+jumping to a gate leave me vulnerable right before jump?

Author
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
#1 - 2015-09-30 19:23:16 UTC
While in high-sec, I've noticed that jumping, from the right-click menu on the colored navigation square, to a gate seems to end with a few seconds of me being at sub-warp speed and on-grid with the gate.

How does this translate to null-sec and being vulnerable, assuming no bubbles? Let's say there's a hostile at a gate who is expecting me. If I select 'jump' from across the system, which initiates warp and lands me at 0, am I on-grid long enough before jumping that I can be locked and attacked?
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-09-30 19:38:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
it depends.

When you come out of a warp, assuming you have not activated anything or moved, your ship is temporarily invulnerable (<5 sec i think). the same happens when you land at a gate. The main difference is, when you click the jump button, your ship receives two commands to complete in order: A. warp to the gate B. jump through the gate (this command also breaks down into two, inseparable commands: move to the gate and the actual jump)

The nature of warping to anything, you will warp somewhere in a sphere about 2500m around its edge. With this in mind, when you click 'jump' (regardless of if it warps or not), your ship will move toward the gate.

In practice, if you land on the gate without any trouble (no bubbles or random bouncing off the gate model) the time between you exiting invulnerability and actually jumping is usually under the 2 seconds (i can explain the 2 second rule for locking if you don't already know) it take to lock and hurt you. An exception being smartbombs, which do not require a lock, and will cause their damage instantly.

Very rare cases when you will be vulnerable long enough for anything serious to happen. Usually caused by latency or some sort of technical skip.

And as I mentioned, some ships have potential to bounce off the gate. This is mostly an issue for super-capitals, and larger ships (freighters, orcas, battleships and regular capitals) that are in a ball from fleet warp. In those cases, its just a matter of where in the ball you are and how large your ship is, along with misfortunate placement in said ball.

For day to day use, especially if you warp yourself, I wouldn't count on any anomalous occurences happening enough for you to make special plans around them (unless your ping is dreadfully terrible).

Be advised, in rare cases the server will just go full dumbass on you and even though it says jumping, you will just sit there completely vulnerable. This is a technical glitch and not too common. I have heard (not confirmed) that in some cases you can get reimbursement for things like that, but I wouldn't count on it.
Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
#3 - 2015-09-30 19:39:15 UTC
The Larold wrote:
While in high-sec, I've noticed that jumping, from the right-click menu on the colored navigation square, to a gate seems to end with a few seconds of me being at sub-warp speed and on-grid with the gate.

How does this translate to null-sec and being vulnerable, assuming no bubbles? Let's say there's a hostile at a gate who is expecting me. If I select 'jump' from across the system, which initiates warp and lands me at 0, am I on-grid long enough before jumping that I can be locked and attacked?


I don't think there is really enough time for someone camping a gate to get a lock on you and start firing before you jump, but there's definitely enough time for them to smartbomb you. Usually they'll jump through with you and try to catch you on the other side.
Memphis Baas
#4 - 2015-09-30 21:02:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Yeah, when you arrive at 0 and jump, you're vulnerable for such a short time that the server lag and general internet lag take care of it (server has to report to the other players that you've arrived, so they don't see you till a bit after). That's why people use bubbles; they force you out of warp at some distance away from the gate, even if you choose warp-to-0 or "jump", with plenty of time for the enemies to lock you up and kill you.

Without bubbles, you are vulnerable once you've gone through the gate. You have 30 seconds of invulnerability so your computer can load up the surroundings and give you some time to make a decision, but after that, the slower your ship is the longer it takes to warp away. And even for covert ops cloaking ships or mwd-cloak tricks, you have to take off the gate invisibility to activate your cloak, and that's enough time for an interceptor to double-click your brief appearance in the Overview to fly to your position, and interceptors move so fast that he'll pretty much bump you and decloak you.

EDIT: In addition, aggression flags come into play at a gate. If you arrive, someone shoots you, and you manage to jump through, the gate will deny them access for a full minute because they have aggression flags. If you arrive, shoot someone, they shoot back, and you then try to jump through the gate, neither of you can jump through. If you hear the terms "station games", "undock games", or "gate games", this is what they're talking about, people using this game mechanic to escape pursuit.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2015-09-30 22:38:23 UTC
Due to:

Persephone Alleile wrote:
The Larold wrote:
While in high-sec, I've noticed that jumping, from the right-click menu on the colored navigation square, to a gate seems to end with a few seconds of me being at sub-warp speed and on-grid with the gate.

How does this translate to null-sec and being vulnerable, assuming no bubbles? Let's say there's a hostile at a gate who is expecting me. If I select 'jump' from across the system, which initiates warp and lands me at 0, am I on-grid long enough before jumping that I can be locked and attacked?


I don't think there is really enough time for someone camping a gate to get a lock on you and start firing before you jump, but there's definitely enough time for them to smartbomb you. Usually they'll jump through with you and try to catch you on the other side.

and
Memphis Baas wrote:

EDIT: In addition, aggression flags come into play at a gate. If you arrive, someone shoots you, and you manage to jump through, the gate will deny them access for a full minute because they have aggression flags. If you arrive, shoot someone, they shoot back, and you then try to jump through the gate, neither of you can jump through. If you hear the terms "station games", "undock games", or "gate games", this is what they're talking about, people using this game mechanic to escape pursuit.

There are times when you want someone to lock you and try something before you jump which is why it is often hard to make them do that. This same mechanic can be used to divide up your enemies into smaller numbers.
This guide here iirc is a really great guide on null sec gate and warp bubble mechanics. He's teaching people how to use interdictors but he goes over how all the mechanics work and it's a really great podcast / guide to listen to. It is an hour and a half long but it contains a lot of info.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-09-30 23:53:28 UTC
I assume we are talking BRs or covops frigates here.

If so be aware it is actually possible to warp close enough to a gate to decloak when you land but not close enough to instantly jump.

This only happens very rarely but fit a MWD for burning to the gate to cover this possibility.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2015-10-01 01:12:02 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
I assume we are talking BRs or covops frigates here.

If so be aware it is actually possible to warp close enough to a gate to decloak when you land but not close enough to instantly jump.

This only happens very rarely but fit a MWD for burning to the gate to cover this possibility.

I think the opposite is true. You have to land within 2000 meters to decloak and you have to be within 2500 meters to jump. Since you can't jump cloaked the delay happens when you land within 2500 meters but further than 2000. In that case you can either move towards the gate to decloak and jump or just hit decloak and jump or as a routine hit decloak as you are landing.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Cherri Minoa
Serendipity Technologies Inc
#8 - 2015-10-01 13:50:15 UTC
In theory, if you warp to an (unbubbled) gate with the "jump" command then there is no gap between landing and jumping in which you can be target locked. It is totally safe. Just plucking a number out of the air, I would say it works that way 99% of the time. The other 1% then lag, server hiccups or other gremlins may drop you a bit short of the 2500m jump range, or just leave you sitting there thinking "oops".

The one to watch out for is if you are in a high value ship and prone to disconnects. If you get a disconnect as you arrive at the gate, then when you reconnect EVE will warp you back to where it lost contact with you. This might be 3000m, 10km or any other highly inconvenient distance from the gate. For critical journeys, scout it first.

"If I had been censured every time I have run my ship, or fleets under my command, into great danger, I should have long ago been out of the Service" - Horatio Nelson

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#9 - 2015-10-01 14:38:47 UTC
Basic answer, yes it is technically possible for someone to target you in the time between landing from your warp and actually jumping through the gate. Since there is nothing they can do to prevent you from jumping through the gate it is usually a very safe thing to do with smart bombs being the only major problem you might face. Getting away from them or their friends on the other side of the gate is another matter completely and it is for another topic.

Thoughts to help keep safe.
Never click jump, always use the warp to zero option and then spam the jump button as you approach the gate. If you click the jump button there is a significant chance you will land outside the 2500 meter activation range for the gate. Warping to zero significantly reduces the chances of landing outside activation range.


ergherhdfgh wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
I assume we are talking BRs or covops frigates here.

If so be aware it is actually possible to warp close enough to a gate to decloak when you land but not close enough to instantly jump.

This only happens very rarely but fit a MWD for burning to the gate to cover this possibility.

I think the opposite is true. You have to land within 2000 meters to decloak and you have to be within 2500 meters to jump. Since you can't jump cloaked the delay happens when you land within 2500 meters but further than 2000. In that case you can either move towards the gate to decloak and jump or just hit decloak and jump or as a routine hit decloak as you are landing.

With the cov-ops cloak you do not have to manually decloak before you can activate the gate. If you simply start spamming the jump button you stay cloaked until you are within 2,000 meters of the gate at which point the gate will force decloak you and then initiate the jump sequence one tick later. If you are good with the manual decloak / jump sequence you are visible for the same time as using the process above, in my experience there is more chance for human error in the manual decloak method and those errors could leave you exposed for a longer period of time.