EVE General Discussion

I am undecided about this one.

On the one hand, its all good fun.
Ganking by itself and the basic premise of CODE are fine with me.
I do not agree with some of their actions though and find their style of communications at times over abusive, harassing and just bad taste.
Yet I still read minerbumping and enjoy the tales about many of their exploits.
Ganking has its place in EvE as well as in High-Sec.

On the other hand CODE shows no remorse with regards to those times they overstep the moral line in the sand.
The "Bonus Room" was an amoral and in many countries illegal affair.
It was clearly labelled by CCP as unacceptable and resulted in bans against countless perpetrators.

Yet instead of showing remorse or at least keeping quite about this shameful matter,
CODE stylizes those banned pilots as "Martyrs" in their in-game and out-of-game propaganda.

By doing so CODE condones their activities and puts itself in conflict with CPP rulings and Player Opinion.

http://www.minerbumping.com/2015/09/remembering-our-martyrs.html


Moreover Code utilizes the twitter of CCP Shadowcat to implicate that their activities are not only tolerated by CCP but are welcomed.
"This carebear would be heartbroken to know that CCP devs are given laminated mining permits at fan events."
http://www.minerbumping.com/2015/09/highsec-miner-grab-bag-89.html

"Here you see a CCP dev holding a New Order permit and beaming with pride."
http://www.minerbumping.com/2015/09/papers-please.html


This is where it all goes wrong.
CCP Shadowcat accepted the permit and posted the twitter in good faith.
Nevertheless this happened a few days after CODE styled the banned bonus room participants as martyrs.
The positive public attention created for CODE by CCP right after the propaganda statement about the "Bonus Room" creates the impression, that CCP supports or at least tolerates CODEs position.
The fact that CCP tolerates that CODE uses the Twitter for propaganda purposes solidifies this impression.

So what is it?
Does CCP still see actions like the Bonus Room as inacceptable or not ?
Is it ok for player Groups to abuse CCP employees in testimonials for the superiority of their sandbox gameplay over that of other groups ?

Well, not sure I read whatever the bonus room incident thing so no comment there.

I do agree that many CODE. targets are only harm to the game. They offer no benefit. The best gamers are usually picky and being able to take out rookies with little lasting concequenses and a minimal isk investment is pretty broken. The more discerning and skilled players leave because "if simple stuff like that isnt balanced, I doubt rest of the game is much better"

There is nothing wrong with the principles of code nor the permit from a gameplay value. But CCP still leaves low security as being easy to fix.

Burn your security should be permaburned to highsec practically. At least not without a ton of work. Literally, dont blame the players, blame the game. Some people just cannot see the big picture. I deal with it every day in RL. Is sad and a little scary how narrow point of views can be. They like the game so much that they drive it into the ground. Subs=investment=dev time. If they dont like carebears? So what. Let carebears feed CCP dollars so CCP can improve eve faster so ganking and such can be a solid part of eve

Best way to run it is a pick and choose. I have met many new players who never received any pay warning. They want to RP and bring eve reality to nubs? Give a warning, set their standing and next time, pop!

The fact I hear so many cases where it was just a gank without any request for payment or they say it after makes it difficult to believe their roleplay.

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Get this into your head.

Ganking is the ONLY playstyle that does have mechanical consequences attached to it. It does not need any more merely because your kind fails so hard at fighting back.

Consequences are for players to enforce. Your failure to do so is not indicative of anything broken in the game, merely something wrong with your attitudes.

Lastly, you can talk about adding more "consequences" to the way I play the game when there are any "consequences" attached to you merely for engaging in your playstyle at all.



You know that, in EVE Online, capsuleers are literally gods? Rules don't apply to us, and the regular people just try to stay out of our way and/or take our money.

They literally do not care what we do to each other. They consider themselves lucky that the Yulai Accords still hold, for that matter.

Notice how some entitled individuals ignore the actual content produced into this thread.

BUT DO NOT BE DISMAYED!
That means MORE OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU!

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meh

If that was true, it would not be the first time.

The real question is, while people all around isolate facts to understand the whole, non categorical minds see the patterns. CCP is impartial in a different way. They are not neutral, they just go around giving a hi five for everything that seems trending, but never really indulges it.

Just pay attention to the patterns of change since 2012 and you will understand it completely.

I never argued against the legality of ganking or its functionality as an important gameplay variable.
On the contrary I explicity stated that CODE and Ganking have their valid place in EVE.




My argument at no point directly compared the average CODE agent and his actions to that of Eroica1.

Allow me to clarify my argument for you:

CCP marks activities like the BonusRoom as unacceptable and bans player en masse for participation.
CODE publishes a statement stylizing those banned players as martyrs on the one year anniversary of the bans.
A CCP employee makes a twitter post giving positive publicity to CODE.
CODE uses this post as testimonial to push its agenda.
CCP does not react.


Declaring the BonusRoom as unwanted activity in the game and giving positive publicity to CODE right after it published a declaration defending these very activities is paradox unless CCPs position about the BonusRoom changed.

Even more condensed:

- (a AND -a)

This has been know for a couple of Millenia now.

I understand your logic, I just don't think it is the case here, that CODE or CCP has been working together to promote anything in particular.

The argument can also be made, that CCP only endorses CODEs typical suicide ganking activities, since the memorabilia that that was included in the photo was a mining permit. Something specifically connected with CODEs usual ganking activities and not rare cases of "Bonus Room" games.

My point was basically, that I think we are digging very deep, if we are trying to somehow connect a photo of a CCP employee with an IRL mining permit and CCP changing their view on the Bonus Room.

But yes, if CCP finds this a problem I am sure they will investigate the situation. But from past experience, we at least know, that if someone actually try to do activities resembling the original "Bonus Room", then these accounts will be banned.

From this, I think it is fairly clear that CCP is fine with normal ganking, but will strike hard on humiliating games like the "Bonus Room".

It is threads like this that remind me of how much I miss Dinsdale Pirannha's posting.