EVE General Discussion

What can they do? Say F you vets and focus on people who are not playing eve first. The existing player basd will decline no matter how solid it is. MUST get new players in and wanting to stay. As much as many people seem to believe, tears are not a valid currency to pay the bills. It should be just as difficult to be a bully as it is to be a carebear. Everything should require risk and be a struggle to be on top. The bigger the ship, the more special, not standard, it should be in a combat situation.

The part that gets people, it is the effort to be mean vs the counter and imbalance of repurcussions. In highsec that is what aggrivates most.

Have you actually tried high sec ganking?

If it is easier then we would expect more new players would do high sec ganking and few would do the difficult work of carebearing. Yet there are so few gankers and so many people carebearing.




Why fight the game? Just start doing the high sec ganking yourself and teach new players how to do it if it is so much easier. Do what you decide is the best way to accomplish your goals.

The following was originally an edit to my previous post, but such a heartfelt rant, it needed it's own post.

Other game example

This still rates as one of the best pirate style moments of any game I played. Not the most lasting, but best experience.

That good ol game of freelancer. I played on a huge server. I got in with a group of honorable pirates. Pay the fee, pass on by. Don't pay, and we kill you. Want in? Fight or go around.

I would be able to take on three-four people who were on par in ship fitment at a time and win that fight while also keeping others from getting by. It was extreme, and it was intense.

So who had the better result of that investment in time. The Four fighting me who lost, or the one me who won? Which probably was more work?

that is eve. Here, if you are one on four, it is difficult to win, instead, I find more excitement in evading it. So go ahead, go for the easy thing. Show newbs ganking.

After a month, they are bored and they are cowards because they never got to learning skilled combat. They end up like certain big alliances which lose even when they have numbers because people lack the skill and mental fortitude to risk it in a fight. That mentality has spread throughout eve coupled by blob fighting rock paper scissors meta game that really renders skill useless in any bigger fight.


I am a solo character!
I AM PROUD OF THE FACT I HAVE NO ALTS!

The best times in eve for me were fighting the losing fights.

End of White Noise

Fail of Cascade Imminent

My first pvp ship loss with that awesome tackle griffin that still resonates with me the power that newbs have when along side high SP veterans.

That one time we all jumped in basic fit hurricanes and counter raided a wormhole with a fleet that formed in like two minutes. We collapsed the wormhole behind us going in, tore a top WH corp a new one and got out!

Leading fleets of hundreds of people vs the initial Sansha Incursion live events!!!

Gonna touch on that one for a bit.... We lauded when over an entire game day a few thou people got in a pvp fight. You know what? With Sansha incursions, I got a Maxed fleet in minutes which was a fight to get close to those numbers with a big alliance CTA. We got thousands of people to band together randomly with extremely short warning. Numbers that typically rivaled many of the large alliance fights with all their planning and organization.

What is the point? Eve will NEVER be able to compete with a concept of casual. Even RvB with it's no objective fighting is still not casual. People are part of a group, something big. There is a long term anticipation, like waiting for the next in a series.


You really think that sneaking in and ganking a miner who is listening to some tunes and only half watching a screen can compete to any of those experiences? To this day there is not a single thing that instills the memories and emotions for me and those that were there as those Sansha live events. Deltole VI still gives me shivers as to how much of an experience that was.

The fact that years later, I still encounter people who when new flew in my fleets see and remember me. That says a lot. The fact so many people still remember me and contact me for showing them how to maximize the complexity of this game. To fight for the challenge and how to fight back.

Note, years later....

So people who really hadn't gotten into the game stuck around for years after because they got an experience that other games could not compete with.

So I ask you, what does casual ganking actually bring of value compared to MY EVE?

No presents this christmas, they did not have the developer time to spend. We just get recycled fireworks...

No.

When you start demanding "cause" and "reasons" for PvP to exist, that's just another snide justification to nerf other people's player freedom.

They can do what they want, whether you like it or not. In fact, especially if you don't like it. If you want "beaches of Normandy", go play Wing Commander or X-Wing or some other game that has a story. You can get your "cause" there.

EVE is about player freedom.

******* over vets and going for the mythical new players is what SWG did. The game flat lined in a month and never recovered.

SWG refugee here, totally confirming the above as spot on. SWG, the best example of what not to do to a game nor to your existing vets.

Please do. Eve-kill, zkillboard and battleclinic do not seem to show any ganking by you.

It is what they did to anger the player base. Dumbed down the game. I am saying make mechanics that are solid. Eve vs Galaxies... they are reverse roles right now. Eve is simplistic and am saying make it complex even if those that want to be trolls get mad. Galaxies was we have a veteran player base and dumb it down to try and get newbs to endgame from the start.

It also missed the complete point of that statement. If we could get a chart showing average player age, it should taper down from many new players, say sub 1 year, to a small group of people over 5 years which remains pretty progressive. Somehow I do not see it being that way. I see a tiny spike of the one month, a sudden drop, then just flatline across meaning that the only people who do stay will be those for a long time. There is no moderate gamers. By making vet ships specialized and more role for lower SP, it will increase the up to one year player base.

A good mechanical setup and fleet composition for the game would see high sp veterans in elite ships, more T2 and faction in battle with capital centerpiece. The main bodies of the fleets would be T1 battleships, cruisers and frigates. It would make the veteran role a centerpiece instead of a minimum requirement. People can still push people out, and let the newbs know whose boss, but there still needs to be roles for the new players. As I have said frequently, a proper game mechanic setup would have new players as pawns. Low power, but vitally necessary. That would mean that a highsec needs to be revamped to give them a chance to get their feet wet.

Is interesting, one group likely to drop the game pretty fast from the lets get newb tears victims are probably the higher skilled and risk taking players. People like myself. If I had been ganked/trolled/etc. There would not have been tears. I would have simply decided the mechanics are busted and moved on. Plenty of fun games out there. If those first moments seem broken, they just leave. If it seems a proper challenge or have some intrigue, then they join in.

This is speaking from experience with Eve. I tried it when eve started up. I played a bit, and a simple misunderstanding of the skill system, I left. I had even forgotten I played until years later when a friend sent me an invite and suddenly... "boy, this seems familiar". That is what I was getting at with **** em off. Let those that hurt the bottom line and game's potential leave. Is it not better to get the players in more concerned about fights than killboards? Those more up for a challenge than hotdropping a few barges?



Not arguing that either, freedom is what I like about the game. But why can we not have freedom with depth of mechanics?

A common statement is that modern gaming people want instant combat and results. Eve does not have that, but the tools we have are that way. Spend a ton of time working towards something, then trying to find reasons to use it for short bursts. Would it not be better if it was protracted? Not as a grind, but as a progression. So a war dec can just be casual, a gank can be casual, but reverse it so those that want a story, depth, or goal more than flying bling bling ship can have that effectively as well.

These recent replies to that post caused an explosion of new posters. Much of this topic and many about it all go on about how eve doesn't have players cause most gamers want instant access and eve is not for them. As soon as is a post about making eve a more paced tactical and complex game, people complain that eve won't be instant access?

This alone proves eve has an identity crisis. We have this widely outspoken panicy group that eve is supposed to be about and reward loyalty and determination, but it also is supposed to be casual, have nothing and instant?

Overall, if Eve is only going to be about casual ganking, and one sided fighting. Then let it die. I find what I do fun, and the community fun. For casual PvP and smacktalk, I will play a much more challenging real PvP combat game, as I am sure many others have done.