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The PR is getting old

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Clyde en Marland
White Fang Militia
Fraternity.
#121 - 2015-09-24 15:32:10 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Kazini Jax wrote:
"Long story short, we have had long meetings about the structure attack system, and came to the conclusion that, while Entosis Links do indeed achieve our design goals for the Citadels, they are not actually delivering an experience we are satisfied to provide."


CCP was quite satisfied with it otherwise CCP wouldn't have had 'long meetings' about it. It was the user base that doesn't like the stale mechanics of Entosis links. Call it what it is and quit trying to mislead us. This tactic is getting real, REAL old and I am sure it plays a role in your bleeding of users. I know, cause I am ready to permanently close my 3+ accounts over it.


To be blunt, I didn't have your specific little special feelings in mind when I wrote the blog. I am a senior game designer, not a PR person. Of course a portion of the player base doesn't like the Entosis mechanics, and of course that played a role in our meetings. Of course player feedback influenced the team decision to adopt straight damage for structures.

That doesn't change the fact the team also wanted to bring this straight damage connection back in the game, for the reasons we explained in the blog. We were not trying to mislead you on purpose, we were trying to make you happy. Of all the things you could say, that is what you come up with? How about, thank you? Sad

I am not sure how much you realize how open-minded and communicative we are trying to be here. Especially guys like CCP Nullarbor who are doing their very best to tell you guys about changes we are not even sure yet. Ask the CSM to which lengths we are willing to go to adapt our designs to make sure the Citadel release brings the enjoyment you guys deserve.

To be selfishly honest here, it would be much simpler for us to cover our ears and just go straight for the initial designs we first thought of. That doesn't require any drastic changes in the concept, no extra damage calculation, no HP mitigation and so on. We wouldn't have to spend time reading the forums, reddit, speaking on Slack, with the CSM or other communication channels we usually monitor. Every time we iterate on a feature we have to spend quite a significant amount of resources to implement it. That costs man-hours.

We are willing to go to the extra mile to try and come up with the best feature we possibly can. You have no idea how disheartening this kind of message can be after you've spent months trying to come up with the best possible option.

Of course, we can make mistakes, which is why we are trying to be open in our approach, we want, no we need your feedback. But by the love of whatever god you praise, please be constructive when you do so. We deserve some minimum amount of respect, and this kind of posts serves little practical purpose.


Thank you.


CCP, you provide us with the following:

  • A playground full of wonderful toys
  • Hours of entertainment
  • Regular updates
  • Regular fixes
  • Experiments
  • Changes when we don't like something, or when something doesn't work
  • Daft Xmas presents that exists for no other reason than they're funny (how much work does your humour create you?)

On behalf of R3MUS & NAGA, & anyone of worth who hasn't seen this travesty of an OP, thank you.
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#122 - 2015-09-24 15:42:34 UTC
Clyde en Marland wrote:


CCP, you provide us with the following:

  • A playground full of wonderful toys
  • Hours of entertainment
  • Regular updates
  • Regular fixes
  • Experiments
  • Changes when we don't like something, or when something doesn't work
  • Daft Xmas presents that exists for no other reason than they're funny (how much work does your humour create you?)

On behalf of R3MUS & NAGA, & anyone of worth who hasn't seen this travesty of an OP, thank you.


Don't forget vigilant anti-monopoly regulations as well.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#123 - 2015-09-24 15:45:14 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
There were plenty of people defending trollceptors in the feedback threadnaughts.
Of course there were, the people using them. There will always be people defending something that benefits them greatly no matter how ********. LEt's face it though, the idea that a single frigate is all you need to contest sov is way up there with the dumbest **** ever.

Sibyyl wrote:
Hindsight is always 20/20 but unfortunately you're mistaking it for prescience. There has never been player consensus for SOV.. you see consensus because a lot of people with strong opinions always seems to have blinders on.
It's not hindsight though, it was foresight. We (as in anyone with a remote amount of common sense) knew about trollceptors and the problems they would cause LOOOONG before they existed.

Sibyyl wrote:
I'll make a list of fallacies:
1. CCP owes it to the players to listen to them and implement their feedback
2. CCP not listening to players always results in problems
3. CCP listening to players never results in problems
4. CCP must not have had any motivations I am personally not aware of
5. CCP owes it to us to communicate first on the forums because we haven't learned how to use reddit or Twitter
6. The game development process should be perfect
7. As a player I should be consulted before changes are made in the game
8. CCP should have listened to one specific person out of a 1,000 because in hindsight their feedback seems right to me

Really, the entitled folks I see in here are the ones I'd never expect to adopt that position. It's surprising.
We don't expect perfection or CCP to listen to everyone or to run everything by us, but the entire entosis system has been a complete ****-up, and much of it could have been prevented by CCP having a basic understanding of what the players enjoy. Most of this was explained to them in great detail by numerous sources and they seemed even more reluctant to listen to players than normal. It's no surprise now that they are already starting to backtrack.

The thing is, I think they should just put their hands up say "we messed it up" and try again, rather than the desperate attempt to save face by taking the shards of the broken mechanics that look OK-ish and build them. I'm certainly not going to pat them on the back and say "well done chaps" for delivering a steaming pile of manure and expecting us to jump into it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#124 - 2015-09-24 15:50:26 UTC
The only thing I really hate about fozziemechanics is the timezone ****.

I used to reave in one region for 25 and half hours a day for nine days a week.

Now when I get home at odd times, I sometimes end up relegated to strategic ratting duty!

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#125 - 2015-09-24 17:16:16 UTC
Quote:
You can't improve a game that is supposed to be based on conflict with a woman at the helm. It's generally accepted that women are far less aggressive than men....so why appoint a woman to run a game based on aggression and conflict......now that was a stupid decision. Replacing a guy who looked stoned all the time with a woman.....really?

Roll

I think EVE could stand to lose a few more subscriptions. At least one, anyway.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#126 - 2015-09-24 17:58:41 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
The only thing I really hate about fozziemechanics is the timezone ****.

I used to reave in one region for 25 and half hours a day for nine days a week.

Now when I get home at odd times, I sometimes end up relegated to strategic ratting duty!


That is the one part that did have me scratching my head. It makes sense for reinforcement timers to have it so a person can set what time zone it comes out of reinforcement. Really basic stuff, in event of a fuel infusion, why can the computer in the pos do that? For entosis, it is something i didn't look enough into. They should always be vulnerable initially.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#127 - 2015-09-24 18:18:12 UTC
Removed some off topic posts.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#128 - 2015-09-24 18:18:39 UTC
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
Since we are being Blunt here, I should not have to Sign up for Reddit, join slack or other social media that you guys are more active on Compared to your own Official Forums. It's amazing how much more communicative you are outside of your own forums compared to on here.


Let's not think about why. Let's just complain. Because that logic can't possibly be why so much CCP feedback flows through just about every other channel before it reaches this one.

Talk about censorship all you want; the problem is that the official forums are about 5% helpful and 95% toxic.

Change that, and we won't have to ~demand~ that CCP interact with us. They will.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Sarah Flynt
Red Cross Mercenaries
Silent Infinity
#129 - 2015-09-24 18:26:57 UTC
Bluespot85 wrote:
Lots of sexist junk and:

As an organisation you have become known as a bunch of liars. So many features are shown at fanfest that never get introduced.

THAT IS CALLED LIEING. Maybe in Iceland thats the norm.

Hear hear, a CODE. alt accuses others of lying. YMMD

Skia Aumer wrote:
Let's have a look at aggressive man's kill board.

Use the one of his main instead. Only the finest elite PVP.

Bluespot85 wrote:
You'll be pleased to know that alot of your customers are trying/looking at other games that your competitors are developing, maybe thats the only way that you clowns will up your game.

Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#130 - 2015-09-24 18:41:07 UTC
CCP Manifest wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
I am a senior game designer, not a PR person.


Confirmed. Ytterbium is not a PR person.Pirate


Well he ******* should be. I respect blunt talk like that more than I respect the 'smoke being blown up my ***' that you get from other companies.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#131 - 2015-09-24 19:17:41 UTC
Once you have the wolf by the ears, it's not wise to let go.

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Kazini Jax
Starlight Operations
#132 - 2015-09-24 19:26:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Kazini Jax
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Kazini Jax wrote:
"Long story short, we have had long meetings about the structure attack system, and came to the conclusion that, while Entosis Links do indeed achieve our design goals for the Citadels, they are not actually delivering an experience we are satisfied to provide."


CCP was quite satisfied with it otherwise CCP wouldn't have had 'long meetings' about it. It was the user base that doesn't like the stale mechanics of Entosis links. Call it what it is and quit trying to mislead us. This tactic is getting real, REAL old and I am sure it plays a role in your bleeding of users. I know, cause I am ready to permanently close my 3+ accounts over it.


To be blunt, I didn't have your specific little special feelings in mind when I wrote the blog. I am a senior game designer, not a PR person. Of course a portion of the player base doesn't like the Entosis mechanics, and of course that played a role in our meetings. Of course player feedback influenced the team decision to adopt straight damage for structures.

That doesn't change the fact the team also wanted to bring this straight damage connection back in the game, for the reasons we explained in the blog. We were not trying to mislead you on purpose, we were trying to make you happy. Of all the things you could say, that is what you come up with? How about, thank you? Sad

I am not sure how much you realize how open-minded and communicative we are trying to be here. Especially guys like CCP Nullarbor who are doing their very best to tell you guys about changes we are not even sure yet. Ask the CSM to which lengths we are willing to go to adapt our designs to make sure the Citadel release brings the enjoyment you guys deserve.

To be selfishly honest here, it would be much simpler for us to cover our ears and just go straight for the initial designs we first thought of. That doesn't require any drastic changes in the concept, no extra damage calculation, no HP mitigation and so on. We wouldn't have to spend time reading the forums, reddit, speaking on Slack, with the CSM or other communication channels we usually monitor. Every time we iterate on a feature we have to spend quite a significant amount of resources to implement it. That costs man-hours.

We are willing to go to the extra mile to try and come up with the best feature we possibly can. You have no idea how disheartening this kind of message can be after you've spent months trying to come up with the best possible option.

Of course, we can make mistakes, which is why we are trying to be open in our approach, we want, no we need your feedback. But by the love of whatever god you praise, please be constructive when you do so. We deserve some minimum amount of respect, and this kind of posts serves little practical purpose.


Thank you.




"To be blunt, I didn't have your specific little special feelings in mind when I wrote the blog."

You mean you lack the desire to not lie to people? How sad
Yea, to not be lied to is a real special little feeling only I must desire. That is a **** poor, condescending BS answer!


Here is what I have read:

Some CCP devs are fine with lying and will use their position as an excuse to not be truthful. All you had to do was say 'we realized we were wrong' instead of pretend. WTF is so bad about just admitting when you were wrong? I would have more respect for you as a company.


Everyone else is just fine with being lied to by corporations. Everyone bitches about corporations lying to them but aren't willing to call them out on it. In fact, quite the opposite. You support them when it serves your desire.


A lot of reductio ad absurdum.


Sorry, I am not going to be such a sad human as to not stand up for what is right. You lost my respect and my money.

The rest of your are just making excuse to be apathetic, sad little consumers. Pathetic!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#133 - 2015-09-24 19:42:33 UTC
Kazini Jax wrote:
Here is what I have read:

Some CCP devs are fine with lying and will use their position as an excuse to not be truthful. All you had to do was say 'we realized we were wrong' instead of pretend.
…and the lie is…?

Quote:
A lot of reductio ad absurdum.
Where?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#134 - 2015-09-24 19:42:54 UTC
"When you realise you've put your foot in your mouth, chew harder!"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Zihao
Doomheim
#135 - 2015-09-24 20:05:07 UTC
Kazini Jax wrote:
The rest of your are just making excuse to be apathetic, sad little consumers. Pathetic!


How dare we not share your preferences and cynicism!
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#136 - 2015-09-24 20:14:05 UTC
Kazini Jax wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Kazini Jax wrote:
"Long story short, we have had long meetings about the structure attack system, and came to the conclusion that, while Entosis Links do indeed achieve our design goals for the Citadels, they are not actually delivering an experience we are satisfied to provide."


CCP was quite satisfied with it otherwise CCP wouldn't have had 'long meetings' about it. It was the user base that doesn't like the stale mechanics of Entosis links. Call it what it is and quit trying to mislead us. This tactic is getting real, REAL old and I am sure it plays a role in your bleeding of users. I know, cause I am ready to permanently close my 3+ accounts over it.


To be blunt, I didn't have your specific little special feelings in mind when I wrote the blog. I am a senior game designer, not a PR person. Of course a portion of the player base doesn't like the Entosis mechanics, and of course that played a role in our meetings. Of course player feedback influenced the team decision to adopt straight damage for structures.

That doesn't change the fact the team also wanted to bring this straight damage connection back in the game, for the reasons we explained in the blog. We were not trying to mislead you on purpose, we were trying to make you happy. Of all the things you could say, that is what you come up with? How about, thank you? Sad

I am not sure how much you realize how open-minded and communicative we are trying to be here. Especially guys like CCP Nullarbor who are doing their very best to tell you guys about changes we are not even sure yet. Ask the CSM to which lengths we are willing to go to adapt our designs to make sure the Citadel release brings the enjoyment you guys deserve.

To be selfishly honest here, it would be much simpler for us to cover our ears and just go straight for the initial designs we first thought of. That doesn't require any drastic changes in the concept, no extra damage calculation, no HP mitigation and so on. We wouldn't have to spend time reading the forums, reddit, speaking on Slack, with the CSM or other communication channels we usually monitor. Every time we iterate on a feature we have to spend quite a significant amount of resources to implement it. That costs man-hours.

We are willing to go to the extra mile to try and come up with the best feature we possibly can. You have no idea how disheartening this kind of message can be after you've spent months trying to come up with the best possible option.

Of course, we can make mistakes, which is why we are trying to be open in our approach, we want, no we need your feedback. But by the love of whatever god you praise, please be constructive when you do so. We deserve some minimum amount of respect, and this kind of posts serves little practical purpose.


Thank you.




"To be blunt, I didn't have your specific little special feelings in mind when I wrote the blog."

You mean you lack the desire to not lie to people? How sad
Yea, to not be lied to is a real special little feeling only I must desire. That is a **** poor, condescending BS answer!


Here is what I have read:

Some CCP devs are fine with lying and will use their position as an excuse to not be truthful. All you had to do was say 'we realized we were wrong' instead of pretend. WTF is so bad about just admitting when you were wrong? I would have more respect for you as a company.


Everyone else is just fine with being lied to by corporations. Everyone bitches about corporations lying to them but aren't willing to call them out on it. In fact, quite the opposite. You support them when it serves your desire.


A lot of reductio ad absurdum.


Sorry, I am not going to be such a sad human as to not stand up for what is right. You lost my respect and my money.

The rest of your are just making excuse to be apathetic, sad little consumers. Pathetic!


I'll just bring the excavator over so you can dig yourself an even deeper hole....you utter fuckwit.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Memphis Baas
#137 - 2015-09-24 20:30:28 UTC
NOOOO! Please don't go; your respect, we can't live without it. CCP can't do anything without your respect! And your $15/mo. It's the end of the world for them.
Kazini Jax
Starlight Operations
#138 - 2015-09-24 20:51:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Kazini Jax
4 accounts permanently closed. RIP Eve.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#139 - 2015-09-24 20:53:07 UTC
Kazini Jax wrote:
4 accounts permanently closed.

🍸🎉🎆
Arec Bardwin
#140 - 2015-09-24 20:54:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Arec Bardwin
Hi, is this the thread that ordered the portable gallows?

Kazini Jax wrote:
4 accounts permanently closed. RIP Eve.
Can I have your stuff?