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The PR is getting old

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Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#41 - 2015-09-24 04:55:54 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Kazini Jax wrote:
"Long story short, we have had long meetings about the structure attack system, and came to the conclusion that, while Entosis Links do indeed achieve our design goals for the Citadels, they are not actually delivering an experience we are satisfied to provide."


CCP was quite satisfied with it otherwise CCP wouldn't have had 'long meetings' about it. It was the user base that doesn't like the stale mechanics of Entosis links. Call it what it is and quit trying to mislead us. This tactic is getting real, REAL old and I am sure it plays a role in your bleeding of users. I know, cause I am ready to permanently close my 3+ accounts over it.


To be blunt, I didn't have your specific little special feelings in mind when I wrote the blog. I am a senior game designer, not a PR person. Of course a portion of the player base doesn't like the Entosis mechanics, and of course that played a role in our meetings. Of course player feedback influenced the team decision to adopt straight damage for structures.

That doesn't change the fact the team also wanted to bring this straight damage connection back in the game, for the reasons we explained in the blog. We were not trying to mislead you on purpose, we were trying to make you happy. Of all the things you could say, that is what you come up with? How about, thank you? Sad

I am not sure how much you realize how open-minded and communicative we are trying to be here. Especially guys like CCP Nullarbor who are doing their very best to tell you guys about changes we are not even sure yet. Ask the CSM to which lengths we are willing to go to adapt our designs to make sure the Citadel release brings the enjoyment you guys deserve.

To be selfishly honest here, it would be much simpler for us to cover our ears and just go straight for the initial designs we first thought of. That doesn't require any drastic changes in the concept, no extra damage calculation, no HP mitigation and so on. We wouldn't have to spend time reading the forums, reddit, speaking on Slack, with the CSM or other communication channels we usually monitor. Every time we iterate on a feature we have to spend quite a significant amount of resources to implement it. That costs man-hours.

We are willing to go to the extra mile to try and come up with the best feature we possibly can. You have no idea how disheartening this kind of message can be after you've spent months trying to come up with the best possible option.

Of course, we can make mistakes, which is why we are trying to be open in our approach, we want, no we need your feedback. But by the love of whatever god you praise, please be constructive when you do so. We deserve some minimum amount of respect, and this kind of posts serves little practical purpose.


Thank you.

If you guys ever feel like you're not being appreciated by the players, just remember that there's still tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of use quiet ones that are actually playing the game, loving it, and continuing to pay you guys because we get value and enjoyment out of the hard work that you've put into it.

We appreciate you guys, no matter what some shitposter on the forums says.
Insidious
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2015-09-24 05:15:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Insidious
n/a
Axe Coldon
#43 - 2015-09-24 05:25:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Axe Coldon
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


To be blunt, I didn't have your specific little special feelings in mind when I wrote the blog.


That is the most awesome line ever! Way to go CCP Ytterbium

For the record, I like the entosis sov system. One has to be active to keep ones sov. Which is how it should be.

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Sacu Shi
UK Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2015-09-24 05:36:37 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Kazini Jax wrote:
"Long story short, we have had long meetings about the structure attack system, and came to the conclusion that, while Entosis Links do indeed achieve our design goals for the Citadels, they are not actually delivering an experience we are satisfied to provide."


CCP was quite satisfied with it otherwise CCP wouldn't have had 'long meetings' about it. It was the user base that doesn't like the stale mechanics of Entosis links. Call it what it is and quit trying to mislead us. This tactic is getting real, REAL old and I am sure it plays a role in your bleeding of users. I know, cause I am ready to permanently close my 3+ accounts over it.


To be blunt, I didn't have your specific little special feelings in mind when I wrote the blog. I am a senior game designer, not a PR person. Of course a portion of the player base doesn't like the Entosis mechanics, and of course that played a role in our meetings. Of course player feedback influenced the team decision to adopt straight damage for structures.

That doesn't change the fact the team also wanted to bring this straight damage connection back in the game, for the reasons we explained in the blog. We were not trying to mislead you on purpose, we were trying to make you happy. Of all the things you could say, that is what you come up with? How about, thank you? Sad

I am not sure how much you realize how open-minded and communicative we are trying to be here. Especially guys like CCP Nullarbor who are doing their very best to tell you guys about changes we are not even sure yet. Ask the CSM to which lengths we are willing to go to adapt our designs to make sure the Citadel release brings the enjoyment you guys deserve.

To be selfishly honest here, it would be much simpler for us to cover our ears and just go straight for the initial designs we first thought of. That doesn't require any drastic changes in the concept, no extra damage calculation, no HP mitigation and so on. We wouldn't have to spend time reading the forums, reddit, speaking on Slack, with the CSM or other communication channels we usually monitor. Every time we iterate on a feature we have to spend quite a significant amount of resources to implement it. That costs man-hours.

We are willing to go to the extra mile to try and come up with the best feature we possibly can. You have no idea how disheartening this kind of message can be after you've spent months trying to come up with the best possible option.

Of course, we can make mistakes, which is why we are trying to be open in our approach, we want, no we need your feedback. But by the love of whatever god you praise, please be constructive when you do so. We deserve some minimum amount of respect, and this kind of posts serves little practical purpose.


Thank you.


Personally, I thinks there should be more heartfelt, sincere and to the point posts like this from CCP. It might begin to put the trolls back under their bridges for a while.
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
The Pursuit of Happiness
#45 - 2015-09-24 05:59:22 UTC
Vocal Minority, Silent Majority. Keep up the good work CCP!

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

U-MAD Membership Recruitment

PoH Corporation Recruitment
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2015-09-24 06:17:46 UTC
WE discussed, we argued and looked at all sides. We asked the players and were on way too many different mediums of communitcation and when we talkd to the devs, they listened.

Make everybody happy? Impossible.
Make a perfect game? Ditto

Doing their best? I damn well believe that (in this case) they are.

I am mad someone stole my first thought . . .

mic drop

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Malcoreh Vakarhn
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#47 - 2015-09-24 06:38:32 UTC
If any there was a time to say this: Refit thermal.
Lucas Quaan
DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#48 - 2015-09-24 06:49:00 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We wouldn't have to spend time reading [...] reddit

You should save yourself some time on that one anyway. Nothing of value ever came from there, contrary to claims of how they "did it".
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#49 - 2015-09-24 07:52:58 UTC
Kazini Jax wrote:
CCP was quite satisfied with it otherwise CCP wouldn't have had 'long meetings' about it.

I'm guilty of making some unfairly harsh and immature posts myself, but I can't even fathom how it is you came to this conclusion, much less decided to make a thread about it.
Johnny Twelvebore
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#50 - 2015-09-24 08:02:03 UTC
Well done CCP, for quite some time now you guys have been putting up with every pre-pubescent spergelord shouting on any online forums he can find about how you all collectively suck and that he is unsubbing.

Saying nothing and letting the product speak for you is the professional thing to do I suppose but really in this case it is quite refreshing to see a few guys come out of the woodwork and lay down some home truths (I expect it also makes you feel a great deal better for an hour or so).

Keep on with the upgrades, the silent majority are broadly supportive (and lowsec love you for the BC love). Personally I'm still a fan after the changes years ago that meant I didnt have to hide my frigate from gate guns for 15 mins after killing something - how we ever played in that system I don't know:)

All the best from the Tuskers.

Bloody hell, another eve blog! http://johnnytwelvebore.wordpress.com
Jesse Wilham
Doomheim
#51 - 2015-09-24 08:07:26 UTC
ccp getting tired of yo **** man...

Cool
Xylem Viliana
homeless bum
#52 - 2015-09-24 08:12:33 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


To be blunt, I didn't have your specific little special feelings in mind when I wrote the blog.



Go for the eyes Boo, Go for the eyes!

or in this case beautiful shot to the self important nuts
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#53 - 2015-09-24 08:14:41 UTC  |  Edited by: xxxTRUSTxxx
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


To be blunt, I didn't have your specific little special feelings in mind when I wrote the blog. I am a senior game designer, not a PR person.



I can't thank you and your team enough for all the tireless work you guys put into this game we all love, it's a shame people like the OP can't seem to see this.
when you're ever done (don't think so) with being a Dev you could work in PR.

best dev response in a long time.
Apothne
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2015-09-24 08:15:08 UTC
CCP Ytterbium, the PR man we deserve
Saint Michaels Soul
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#55 - 2015-09-24 08:18:13 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

Thank you.


No, thank you for your hard work, making this ace game.
Asuna Crossbreed
Kittens
#56 - 2015-09-24 08:24:46 UTC
So I just want to point out the bigger flaw in this whole thread. While CCP Ytterbium is 100% correct and I love the work they do and the commitment they have made to bring the community into the discussion. It should really be noted that CCP as a whole has done what the OP is accusing them of many times in the past. I'm not sure how this distrust in CCP can be fixed without just continually proving it wrong. I really hope that by bring this more to light it can be thought about by everyone in the process and even be stated sometimes to help inform players that CCP is aware of this fault they had and are actively working to fix it.

Thank you and love you all.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#57 - 2015-09-24 08:34:45 UTC
Asuna Crossbreed wrote:
So I just want to point out the bigger flaw in this whole thread. While CCP Ytterbium is 100% correct and I love the work they do and the commitment they have made to bring the community into the discussion. It should really be noted that CCP as a whole has done what the OP is accusing them of many times in the past. I'm not sure how this distrust in CCP can be fixed without just continually proving it wrong. I really hope that by bring this more to light it can be thought about by everyone in the process and even be stated sometimes to help inform players that CCP is aware of this fault they had and are actively working to fix it.

Thank you and love you all.


there is no flaw, OP fires a shot, Dev has agro, Dev returns fire. Roll more of this i say Big smile
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#58 - 2015-09-24 08:40:01 UTC
helana Tsero wrote:
You would rather

''CCP admits they released a failed design and are now scrambling to fix a system players don't want''

pasted all over the gaming press.... That will do wonders for attracting new players. Roll


Sometimes PR spin is for a good reason. The role of PR is to make outsiders / potential new players believe the game is going well and new and exciting features are planned. Not to talk about the problems and mistakes devs inevitably make in a game world as complicated as EvE...


EvE is a business.... not your local church... grow up.
Yes, I'd rather see that.

The thing is, no matter how much spin they put on it, we all know it's spin, so they aren't successfully spinning it. Worse, they then try to save face by standing by the mechanics trying to tweak them into working. If they just said "we effed up" and moved on to making a decent mechanic, it would work out much better in the long run. Instead we now have to watch as they slowly iterate the mechanic until it's a new mechanic.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Ari Xali
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#59 - 2015-09-24 08:41:54 UTC
I just want to drop my own line of appreciation to the Devs of CCP.

Thank you.

For everything.

Nothing is perfect and i've seen hundreds if not thousands of changes made by CCP over the years. Change is good, change keeps things from being stale and the lengths CCP go to to listen to the players, interact and try to improve the game we all love, should be and is appreciated by me and many others.

Keep up the good work and don't let the trolls get you down.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2015-09-24 08:44:29 UTC
It's not CCPs fault.

They gave the players everything they asked for.


______

+1 Ytterbium, +1