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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

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Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#2121 - 2015-09-23 15:25:42 UTC
Problem's detailed kill mails.

Punishes people for playing.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2122 - 2015-09-23 15:26:30 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Is why the debate going on right. Now has no value. Both sides just defending themselves. Not wanting to look at or understand the greater scope of things or other opinions. Last few pages, absolutely nothing even related to a discussion about current problems or solution was discussed or reiterated. Good points are lost because the children are arguing
It's because we're all bored and noone has anything important to add. It's obvious that the playerbase is dropping and it's obvious that CCP know this (with their latest dev blog basically begging for players) and there's not much to say on it. There's no one single reason it's just ongoing bad decision making. Not much we can do but ride the wave or get out of the water.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2123 - 2015-09-23 15:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Divine Entervention wrote:
Problem's detailed kill mails.

Punishes people for playing.



Killmails going away would hurt more than help. They are just a record of something happening, and a way to remember that something. Many people (myself included) like having them.

While it's not a lot for my 8 years of playing compared to Real PVPrs, I have about 6000 + kill and death mails across 4 of my characters, and those kill mails are something I can go back to and look at sometimes and say "I was there, flying with those guys I don't see much of any more, living in that space I don't live in any more...even if I don't remember the exact details". That has value, even if some people go overboard with them.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#2124 - 2015-09-23 15:33:18 UTC
/me readjusts his foldout chair and grabs another beer to gaze from the peanut gallery.

*psst*

"Look at them suckers go running about in circles, hun!"

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2125 - 2015-09-23 16:56:35 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Problem's detailed kill mails.

Punishes people for playing.



Killmails going away would hurt more than help. They are just a record of something happening, and a way to remember that something. Many people (myself included) like having them.

While it's not a lot for my 8 years of playing compared to Real PVPrs, I have about 6000 + kill and death mails across 4 of my characters, and those kill mails are something I can go back to and look at sometimes and say "I was there, flying with those guys I don't see much of any more, living in that space I don't live in any more...even if I don't remember the exact details". That has value, even if some people go overboard with them.


What does it hurt beside nostalgia since that's the only thing you listed you would lose?
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#2126 - 2015-09-23 17:27:42 UTC
Quote:
Punishes people for playing


There is a few lines you could see in character bios here in EVE. It goes like that:

"WoW holds your hand from 1-85, and makes sure you get a cookie regardless if you win or lose. Eve not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place."

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Zihao
Doomheim
#2127 - 2015-09-23 17:44:50 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
/me readjusts his foldout chair and grabs another beer to gaze from the peanut gallery.

*psst*

"Look at them suckers go running about in circles, hun!"



NASCAR the thread.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2128 - 2015-09-23 19:28:05 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
/me readjusts his foldout chair and grabs another beer to gaze from the peanut gallery.

*psst*

"Look at them suckers go running about in circles, hun!"


I've got a circle (of sorts) for you.

Also, a couple of different histories to tell.

P
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2129 - 2015-09-23 19:46:54 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:
/me readjusts his foldout chair and grabs another beer to gaze from the peanut gallery.

*psst*

"Look at them suckers go running about in circles, hun!"


I've got a circle (of sorts) for you.

Also, a couple of different histories to tell.

P

Ooooooooh pretty graphs...

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2130 - 2015-09-23 19:52:52 UTC
I love lack of context. Amazing how wormhole change seems huge when every new system from a space increase counts as one...

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2131 - 2015-09-23 19:54:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Markus Reese wrote:
I love lack of context. Amazing how wormhole change seems huge when every new system from a space increase counts as one...

Do you want to see what it looks like if we just count it as one addition? Put another way: would you prefer that I skip over a very clear reference to a number of additions in the patch notes so as to make sure highsec gets more in comparison? Blink
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2132 - 2015-09-23 20:00:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
I love lack of context. Amazing how wormhole change seems huge when every new system from a space increase counts as one...

Do you want to see what it looks like if we just count it as one addition? Put another way: would you prefer that I skip over a very clear reference to a number of additions in the patch notes so as to make sure highsec gets more in comparison? Blink


How about we start with a proper writeup giving context to the graphs and go from there.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2133 - 2015-09-23 20:02:18 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Problem's detailed kill mails.

Punishes people for playing.



Killmails going away would hurt more than help. They are just a record of something happening, and a way to remember that something. Many people (myself included) like having them.

While it's not a lot for my 8 years of playing compared to Real PVPrs, I have about 6000 + kill and death mails across 4 of my characters, and those kill mails are something I can go back to and look at sometimes and say "I was there, flying with those guys I don't see much of any more, living in that space I don't live in any more...even if I don't remember the exact details". That has value, even if some people go overboard with them.


What does it hurt beside nostalgia since that's the only thing you listed you would lose?


It's not nostalgia, it's connection. EVE isn't some pvp moba where you die and respawn and no one gives a damn.

I sometimes go and look at the loss mail I have for the jump freighter I whelped in Jita during a war dec, and sometimes I link it in a chat for a laugh.

People that don't like killmails and want to be rid of them IMO display "throw the bay out with the bath water" thinking, ie they don't value the positives of the thing they want gone, and therefore can't see the potential bad consequences.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2134 - 2015-09-23 20:22:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Markus Reese wrote:
How about we start with a proper writeup giving context to the graphs and go from there.

Quite simple. It's the patch notes for the last year, where anything described as a fix or correction is marked “bug”; any change or adjustment to existing stuff is marked “update”; and anything “added”, “replaced with…”, or “you can now…” is an addition.

Where individual changes are listed, each is included. When they're applied to a class (e.g. “all medium hybrid weapons”), it is only counted as one. If only a vague reference to multiple instances (e.g. “a number of combat sites”), it is only counted as one. If a specific number of items changed or added is given, that number is used.

Anything that clearly references or only applies to a particular part of space is classified as belonging to that space — otherwise, it's just “general”.

Each patch note change is collected in a reasonably broad category in terms of what's being changed. Anything related to language errors, localisation, or ship skins is filtered out (since language fixes and skins alone are as much again as everything else combined and just bloats the “general” category with a bunch of replicated content).

This gives us:
• The previously shown proportions of how each type of change is spread over different bits of space
• An overall picture of how common each type of change is.
• A yearl-long history of which types appear in which patch.
• A year-long history of much has changed in each section of space.

We can also break it down by type:
• Additions/replacements in each patch.
• Bugfixes in each patch.
• Updates in each patch.

We can safely conclude that the UI in EVE is problematic. P
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2135 - 2015-09-23 20:27:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
How about we start with a proper writeup giving context to the graphs and go from there.

Quite simple. It's the patch notes for the last year, where anything described as a fix or correction is marked “bug”; any change or adjustment to existing stuff is marked “addition”; and anything “added”, “replaced with…”, or “you can now…” is an addition.

Where individual changes are listed, each is included. When they're applied to a class (e.g. “all medium hybrid weapons”), it is only counted as one. If only a vague reference to multiple instances (e.g. “a number of combat sites”), it is only counted as one. If a specific number of items changed or added is given, that number is used.

Anything that clearly references or only applies to a particular part of space is classified as belonging to that space — otherwise, it's just “general”.

Each patch note change is collected in a reasonably broad category in terms of what's being changed. Anything related to language errors, localisation, or ship skins is filtered out (since language fixes and skins alone are as much again as everything else combined and just bloats the “general” category with a bunch of replicated content).

This gives us:
• The previously shown proportions of how each type of change is spread over different bits of space
• An overall picture of how common each type of change is.
• A yearl-long history of which types appear in which patch.
• A year-long history of much has changed in each section of space.

We can also break it down by type:
• Additions/replacements in each patch.
• Bugfixes in each patch.
• Updates in each patch.

We can safely conclude that the UI in EVE is problematic. P
Hnng graphporn...

I'll be in my bunk.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#2136 - 2015-09-23 20:53:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:
/me readjusts his foldout chair and grabs another beer to gaze from the peanut gallery.

*psst*

"Look at them suckers go running about in circles, hun!"


I've got a circle (of sorts) for you.

Also, a couple of different histories to tell.

P



Ooh, excellent, ty :)



/me moves his foldout chair so that he and it are pointing towards the setting sun. He is now more than a little drunk and is inclined to throw rocks at the trolls and small children (who may or may not be one and the same)

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#2137 - 2015-09-23 20:54:52 UTC
Quote:
We can safely conclude that the UI in EVE is problematic.

I have played the game for many years and did not know it is so problematic.
Most features they add I dont use or they are turned off. My UI is still in the retro style and I am fine, thank you.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Salvos Rhoska
#2138 - 2015-09-23 21:24:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
To retain and grow an MMO:

1) Advertising/marketing and community viral support.
2) Good New Player content to hook them from trial.
3) Small/easy continuous fixes/adjustments to existing systems, to retain existing players.
4) A substantial future content plan to increase hype, return lost players, retain the old, and attract new, and increase the value of the game itself.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#2139 - 2015-09-23 21:28:52 UTC
Seriously reconsider the value of online advertising, as well.

I never saw an advertisement for EVE until I started playing. Now, they're pasted all over everything, and they're completely pointless: I'm already here.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#2140 - 2015-09-23 21:45:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Lucas Kell wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
His "oh wait" is what is known as sarcasm, it is generally used to indicate that the preceding statement is untrue or unlikely.
We know how sarcasm works.

As in "Yeah, let's go to a single shard.....oh wait... it is!". That's how the "oh wait" works.

It's not "Yeah, let's go to a single shard.....oh wait... That's not technically possible because of legal differences between China and the rest of the world requiring the merged shard to be operated from China under a Chinese company resulting in a substandard gameplay experience for the rest of us".

Those are only your words at the end, not mine. Never intended that way and a good example of your dishonest way of arguing where you make your interpretation the only true one irrespective of any other reasonable (and true in this case) alternatives.