EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

No.

Throughout this discussion you have made every effort to misinterpret and distort my statements to suit your own agenda.

All I have to do is keep posting the truth and being a comparatively reasonable participant in this debate to win it. You're doing all my work for me.

No, I've been saying that since page 4 of this thread.

That's not backpeddling, that's simply stating the simple truth over and over again.

The reason why I'm bringing my lack of relevance up, is that you seemed to think that things that I said somehow constituted an AT loss for Camel and Warlords.

Agreed, as it marks the beginning of the end if that ends up happening

Not really, the only way we end up with this being the end is if CCP decide not to change the rules for next year, and make sure they incorporate feedback to make that happen.

The question of whether there is proof of hydra's cheating is really not that important. I just enjoy seeing bad bobby **** the pooch and take pictures.

It's funny, its almost convenient that you forgot you posted that several pages back, almost as if to shift the blame towards us.




oh wait never mind, it seems your tactic backfired.



"we fixed matches, ccp got pissed and banned us for doing something so incomprehensively wrong in a competative sport, putting it in to the rules would be stupid as everyone knows its wrong. We hoped we had gotten better at it, but clearly CCP is pissed again because we're doing the same thing this year, it just depends to what extent"




Well ain't that a doozey, you admit to ******* up in atIX, you say you we'rent technically breaking any rules, but you and I both know what you did was wrong. As you say 'bad PR', I rather think you just annoyed the hell out of CCP, and no amount of PR would have fixed it. You dont know how their brains work, it's probably why they keep trying to recruit certain PL members, and not certain HYDRA members~

So what's happened is, in your own words, this is either a troll, or you tried to do exactly the same thing as you did in ATIX and it backfired again, because you weren't as good at it as you thought.

You are not very good at petty politics. You might be good at scamming noobs, but youre entering a whole different ball game here and all you are doing is making CCP more mad with your inane evasions and backpedalling.

Just go back to scamming noobs out of titans m8. You're making it worse.

I don't think I said that. My opinion right now is that his allegations of match fixing are false and that CCP has sufficient proof to confirm that.

It's not a question of probability, because there is no random number god at play here. There are facts, there is evidence and there is CCP's decision on how to proceed. The facts and evidence don't support your claims of match fixing and the only unknown is CCP.

Well, there is the obvious one, that DHB got angry, posted stuff, got abuse back, got even angrier and petitioned.

That's certainly a lot more plausible than your alternative, in my opinion.

I can't claim to know where we will be in a week or so. I don't have your omniscience.

But that's not really my role in all this, my chief concern is that we are in the best possible position we can achieve for the next AT and the AT after that.


I think they're fine, particularly since they know a lot more about this whole situation than you do.

The rest of your post is predicated on what I believe to be your hubris. So I don't think I really need to answer it.

hahaha okay. Have fun. You're a muppet, but thanks for all the screenshots.

I'm thoroughly enjoying reading this thread but I have a burning question.

Bad Bobby, all your references to DHB and his posts relate to him being "angry" and off he goes telling lies.

You said "Well, there is the obvious one, that DHB got angry, posted stuff, got abuse back, got even angrier and petitioned."

If Hydra/Warlords/Camel all operated within this years AT as legitimate teams, what did DHB have to be angry at?
His team won, he got ships, prizes and ISK.

I don't know many people who get angry at nothing, or even, angry at winning. I do know alot of people who get angry at being cheated and deceived. Especially by people they thought were trustworthy and having that broken.

Reading through this thread even you admit that HYDRA/Warlords/Camel operate right at the very edge of the rules, and bending them almost to the point of breaking to achieve their end result. Winning and ISK. And you admit yourself this will continue to occur until the rules are written in a way that no one can spin them in a fashion that could be misinterpreted.

I'll be very interested to see how this plays out.

I'm not going to repeat the mud slinging that started this debacle, if you want the answer to your question there are two locked threads where you will get a 1st person perspective on it, regrettable though they may be.


No, actually. My recommendation wasn't that the rules get turned in to something that specifically forbids every possible transgression, but that the rules and structure are altered so that it isn't needed. If nobody has a illegitimate incentive to throw a match, then the very question of match throwing can be put to bed and CCP will not have to worry about these drama bombs.


Me too. I can't think of anything relevant that hasn't been covered now, so all that remains is to wait for the CCP verdict. Then I'm sure the drama will continue.

I wish I could offer you some insight in to DHB's decisions on this, but they are as much of a mystery to me as they are to you.


It doesn't matter if the person is driven by isk, e-honor or the desire to be the best of the best.

If throwing matches doesn't help them win, then they can gain no riches, e-honor or other accolades from doing it.

Double elimination tournaments allow a team to lose a match/series and still continue to compete. They can throw matches and still win.

Single elimination tournaments do not have the same dynamic. If you lose a match/series then you are out and cannot then go on to benefit from your loss later in that tournament.

You can certainly throw one match in a series, in order to fake out your opponents or gain some information advantage, but I don't think that's the kind of match throw that anyone wants to prevent.

You can certainly throw matches in order to win big on eve-bet, but that's outside of the scope of the tournament rules and probably not as big a deal either.

So my point is that tournament structure has a massive effect on what kind of metagaming is viable. Choosing double elimination makes the kind of match fixing that Warlords and Camel are accused of viable and also offers a significant incentive to field two teams in the tournament, since those two teams facing eachother before the finals isn't a problem.

Choosing double elimination and making these metagaming options viable also means that when accusations start flying around CCP have to spend time investigating it and suffer the PR problems associated with it. If that metagaming is not viable then they don't have that unwarranted extra workload and unwanted controversy to deal with.