Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Cyclone really needs a 6th launcher, it can't rely on a 50m3 drone bay to be 1/4th of it's dps.

I'm still left wondering why Caldari seem have suddenly improved their agility. Why does the Navy Drake seem to have gained obscene levels of agility in comparison to the other BC hulls. And why is the Ferox in the top three most agile T1 BCs.

Consider that these are going to be fit with shields and so will suffer no agility penalties means Caldari are basically becoming the most agile race in terms of this rebalance.

Caldari ships have always been quite agile, but dont have enough speed to really make it matter in kiting setups(except the nosprey). Take for example the jackdaw, it gets a bigger bonus to inertia than velocity in prop mode. I would imagine with the navy drake they want it to fly around acting like heavy missile spam. Keeping it mobile in a fleet setup is ideal.

You are correct if one limits your statement to exactly that. A couple Maulus can easily apply 6 damps to take out one to three Corms. However, you do not appear to be in FW (or at least have fighting experience with sniper corms) and thus I doubt you have much experience with massed sniper corms. I will explain.

Sniper corms get into a small plex. They sit out at about 80 or 90 km. Any frig, af, or detroyer that comes in is sniped. If anything burns in it is primaried and does not have a tank to withstand a dozen and usually more corms beating on it. Nothing can outrange it except a snarpy. But you need just as many snarpys to counter the corms. No other destroyer comp will work. Well, there has been attempts with ranged algoses and maybe breacher coraxes which really were better designed to counter Talwar gangs. But the only reliable counter is to upship to snarpys.

You happen to be mentioning the Maulus to one that has flown the ship for the majority of my FW pvp career. They can outrange and out pace a snip corm. However, they are in falloff. They do provide a lovely irritant to any other fleet. But distributing damps reliably on a mass of corms is never a certain endeavor. There will always be some undamped corms due to falloff and overlap amongst a Maulus squad embedded within a gang of other ships. Ships that hope to get close enough to the corms to kill them. As the number of corms rises you soon approach the point where the Mauluses don't matter. They haven't damped enough of the corms.

Now Mauluses make an excellent compliment to any sniping comp including corms. As long as the opposition cannot snipe back out past 100km or so, they can damp anything that closes on the corms until the corms have killed it as it closes distance. However, Mauluses cannot be used as a reliable counter as the numbers increase. Where the tipping point will be always is a matter of circumstances such as fleet makeup, discipline and abilities, FC experience, starting conditions and geography, etc.

Anyway, as I said, to create a class role bonus, but then to give one ship in the class a further similar ship bonus, is simply to make that particular ship better in the role than all the others.

edit - especially when the ship that gets the ship bonus similar to the class bonus is using the weapon system with the best stats for that role. Here that being rails which have the greatest range of any other gun or missile of the same weapon size.

second edit - lol on me you are tribal liberation so you have plex experience. That shows me for not even reading your corp. However, you should know the power of snipe corms, but I don't know that sniper corms are a thing in the Min+Ammar warzone the way they are in Cal+Gal. My impression of your theater is that it is less plex fighting, and more, plexing .

It will be based on what role they expect ships to be used for, and the Navy Drake was already agile - second overall. It seems to have passed the Navy Brutix, but i'm not sure because it looks like the Brutix has had a mass reduction while the Navy Drake has had a mass increase: so does that offset the base agility/velocity buffs after you put a prop mod on, exaggerate them, or make no difference?

Ok, so you managed to find a few outliers without looking at the overall trend. Like I said Minmatar used to be the most agile race and then this was surpassed by Gallente in tiericide.

Here is a more comprehensive roundup:

Tier 3 BCs

Talos
Tornado
Oracle
Naga < Caldari

Battleships (Barring Tier 3s)

Typhoon
Megathron
Tempest
Apocalypse
Raven < Caldari
Scorpion < Caldari
Dominix
Armageddon

T1 Cruisers

Thorax
Omen
Caracal < Caldari
Stabber
Rupture
Vexor
Moa < Caldari
Maller

HACs

Deimos
Vagabond
Cerberus < Caldari
Ishtar
Sacrilege
Muninn
Eagle < Caldari
Zealot

I've taken the whole ship class, and barring the few outliers you found above as a general trend Caldari are behind Minmatar in terms of agility and way behind Gallente.

I find it interesting that Caldari seem to be pushing forward in terms of this rebalance as having great agility. I wonder if this is an overall trend CCP is trying to achieve or just an outlier.

Who plates a Navy Brutix?

Thanks for clearing that up, but imo it's because the intended roles are different. Minmattar would be the fastest if they had a Cyclone Fleet Issue instead of the Fleet Cane for example. It doesn't say anywhere in the lore that Caldari have to be the second slowest always, just like Amarr have sometimes fast ships and sometimes the slowest ships it depends more on the role they were designed for than the lore itself. You don't design a kiting ship and then make it slow just because of lore, that makes no sense.

EDIT: on the same logic I agree that the Ferox has no business being one of the fastest, it should really be one of the slowest. I think they did that so it would still be effective as a brawler, but nobody will put blasters on a Ferox now.

I have to agree with some of the concern already posted. The Navy Drakes base speed and time to align agility seem out of proportion in comparison to the other Navy BCs. Especially considering how these characteristics could be easily further enhanced with a nanofiber. Gunboats sorta need mobility to deal with tracking considerations. Missile and drone boats not so much.

Additionally, where the hell is the expanded drone bay coming from? The ship mobility already gives it an edge on the others. It does not need more drone options. Also, lore be ****** I guess.

We will not see fleets of Navy Harbs or Brutix, and I doubt even Navy Canes. Although Navy Canes for alpha strike type fighting will always have appeal. But we could see some return of fleets of Drakes in Navy form. The only drawback from the old omnipresent perma mwd regular Drakes being pricetag.

Fozzie, when you imbalance Navy ships you induce FW farmer alts to migrate faction. The Navy Drake is much better than the others as a fleet ship. There probably will be a surplus demand for them in comparison to the other Navy BCs. And being a fleet comp capable ship, that demand could be very large. This will affect FW game balance. Something to consider.

They already took a hit to the firewall meta.. I don't think they want to add to it.