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[Vanguard] Combat and Navy BC Rebalance

First post First post First post
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#621 - 2015-10-04 03:13:24 UTC
Deacon Abox wrote:
Fourteen Maken wrote:
"Also, on the Navy Drake I think you miss the stupidly above par agility and tank on it in comparison to the other navy BCs" - hyperbole.

The Navy Brutix has a 200k EHP hulltank with full tackle, cap booster, neut and a smaller sig radius. Can't even get close to that with a pvp fit Navy Drake with tackle. Navy Drake is the most agile but we're talking about ~1 second align time, hardly classes it as "stupidly" above par and it pays for these strengths with lower DPS and no utility high.

Theoretically the tank on the Navy Drake is very good if you don't have to fill your mids with tackle and application mods, but it's unlikely to make it as mainline dps in a fleet doctrine. The t1 Drake has nearly as much tank and higher dps for a fraction of the cost but it's not being used extensively because of delayed dps and the need for dedicated tackle/ewar.

Just because you say it is doesn't make it so. That agility does a lot to evade those hulltanked Brutixes you worry about.

BCs are not solo ships. If these were frigs I would worry. They are not though. They are still relatively lumbering lumps that the bulk of the playerbase will not ride through lowsec or null looking for the elusive solo fight in.

It is the fleet comps that we have to be careful of. There will not be fleets of hulltanked Brutixes for the obvious reason of no logi and no spider because remote hull tank modules blow chunks. There may be fleets of perma mwd Drakes and yes Navy Drakes. Hell people run around in tech3 and command ship fleets. Navy Drakes would be nbd.

And just about every fleet comp needs dedicated tackle and ewar. BCs will be no different.

Says you. Ive been soloing in BCs about a year before this patch. Ive also seen others use them.fairly frequently, even the null guys with their kitchen sinks. They are viable solo ships, you just have to use the utility and damage to your advantage. Just tonight i killed a svipul with logi on grid with my arty fleet cane, and many other ships before him. I go 1600m/s cold, and to you that seems slow, but is more than enough to dictate range against most frigs (except garmurs and linked frigs) long enough for them to die to arty. The highish targeting range, projection and shear damage is more than enough for these ships to handle themselves in solo roles.

A BC is countered by BS. You might get 200k ehp navy drakes, but you can get 200k+ EHP Apocs that counter them just as easily. I dont see BC/drake fleets making a huge comeback. But they will be viable in smaller doctrines or gang setups.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#622 - 2015-10-04 15:02:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
I did not follow this thread since my first posting ...just an add on would like to see fleet hurricane get same drone space as every other hull.

It already lost gun dps and not be able to have spare light or troll drones like everyone else means it will not be able to use 5 med drones to compensate for lost dps!

Can anyone upstairs explain why is this reasonable idea and why on just hurry hull?

Hint: Use artillery

There is a slight dps loss, but you're still getting a double damage bonus (10%, instead of 5%). With artillery, you get huge vollies, more than what the old cane stats could, albeit at the cost of RoF. Tbh though, that slightly slower RoF is made up in the sheer damage. I was alpha'ing through an LSE+XLASB cruiser and making them bleed armor/structure on each shot.

In terms of drones, old cane had 25m3 of drone, now it has 50m3. Its a buff no matter how you look at. No one is forcing you to use mediums. You can still have your light drone and "troll" drones. If you're smart, you fit an MJD for brawler fits and just stick with mediums when you tackle something, MJD from anything that kites you which mediums can't catch.

The cyclone has the same drone bay, and does less dps than the cane. So its comparable to other minmatar ships.

I appreciate response and you are right on workaround from don't use med drones to usem with mjd but what i asked is simpler all other ships received buffs including 75mb drone capacity(and none other lost effective dps) hurricane did not.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#623 - 2015-10-11 19:03:17 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Poranius Fisc wrote:
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
Arkon Olacar wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I know some players will be dissapointed that the damage bonus continues to be restricted to kinetic, but we do believe that damage specific bonuses are a useful tool for creating interesting distinctions between ships and we have no plans to phase them out.

I'm not sure how to make this more clearcut.

This is bad.

Stop doing this.


I think if this were to happen, Caldari missile ships would end up outclassing other missile ships outright unless they were then rebalanced to be more like their competitors damage wise.

So instead, the Amarr Missile ships outclass other missile ships and fit perfectly in the common armor doctrine.
Isn't amarr's 2nd weapon system drones?

Before tiericide amarr ships were mostly lasers with a few T2 Khanid ships being missiles. They decided during diericide that amarr was lasers and drones, but they never changed the T2 missile ships, so now the amarr ship line is confused.

And even as a Caldari pilot, id fly a sacrilege well before a cerb.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#624 - 2015-10-16 19:33:38 UTC
could we unsticky this now please?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
#625 - 2015-10-22 11:46:59 UTC
so, BC crash the cruiser era or they are still not in game?
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#626 - 2015-10-29 00:08:53 UTC
This rebalance seems to be working out OK.

Be nice one day to see one of the Drone BC get a navy version.
Dredward Teach
#627 - 2015-11-20 17:42:11 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Khador Vess wrote:
return of the drakefleet... awesome

Forget Drakefleet. Welcome FeroxFleet.

EDIT: Not only FeroxFleet...but symetrically-placed turret FeroxFleet! WAHOO!

Called it