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Noctis Balance Pass

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1 - 2015-09-19 02:20:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
The introduction of the mobile tractor unit (MTU) has relegated the Noctis to a tertiary role in salvaging. This is a proposal to rebalance the Noctis to make it more attractive to salvaging and looting as a profession by increasing cargo capacity, extending the salvage bonus to drones and giving it a special velocity bonus to MTUs (credit to Joe Risalo for the idea).

Cargo Capacity ... » 2920 m3 (was 1460 m3)
Ore Industrial Bonus ... » 5% reduction in Salvager and Salvage Drone duration (was salvager)
Role Bonus ... » 50% to the velocity of Mobile Tractor Units

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#2 - 2015-09-19 03:05:31 UTC
MTU don't salvage at all.

I will grant that the tractor function of the noctis isn't as used anymore, but it has its place.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#3 - 2015-09-19 03:14:52 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
MTU don't salvage at all.
I will grant that the tractor function of the noctis isn't as used anymore, but it has its place.

I meant salvaging as a whole, not necessarily salvaging specifically.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#4 - 2015-09-19 03:25:54 UTC
Never the less, nothing beats a Noctis in its role as a salvager. MTU are great for balling up wrecks, but that's it. It's useful because it works while you finish the other rooms of the mission.

In a (admittedly rare) circumstance where you have competition for wrecks, the Noctis is indomitable unless the other guy shoots you.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-09-19 03:39:00 UTC
And it has been brought up before that ROF changes to drones breaks the server.

Honestly I think the noctis is one of the few ships that is in a relativity good place.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-09-19 03:50:47 UTC
Stealing my idea and applying it to the Noctis...
For shame!!

I really think a velocity bonus to MTU should be a trait for Marauders and drop their current tractor module bonus.

In the case of the Noctis, it has insane tractor velocity and range. 4 tractors and 4 salvagers is how I've always fit it, with expanded in the lows and tackles in the rigs.
With that, you can salvage 5 missions (in most cases) without returning to unload.
Pull in 4 wrecks while you're salvaging 4 wrecks, and if you can lock 10 targets (skills).
Pull in 4, start salvaging and pulling in 4 more, and he locking 4 more.
Most of the time, 2'wre is are cleared before the lock finishes, meaning you have room for the new locks.

Also, the Noctis cleans up way too fast for an MTU to keep up.
It wouldn't bonus MTUs dropped by another ship, which is the best way to do it, if you intend to come back in another ship.

While an MTU velocity bonus would help Marauders, it would gimp the Noctis.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-09-19 04:31:19 UTC
If anything the Noctis need to just a stronger Noctis :)

100% range/velocity for tractor beam (is 60% now)
-10% tractor beam duration and cap cost (is -5% duration now)
+5% salvage chance for salvager and drones (is -5% salvager duration)

This gives it 120/144km tractor range for T1/T2, use a sensor booster and you have 150km lock range meaning no need to move for anything other than gates (and what else do you put in that 2nd mid slot?)
Boosts salvage drones + makes you salvage basicly anything on first try, atleast if you add rigs (but also chance to change rigs)
Aven Valkyr
Over Reaction
Ligma Grindset
#8 - 2015-09-19 04:45:46 UTC
Dude honestly, I don't even bother dropping MTU while in combat. I do ALL my salvaging outside combat. I put the MTU in my noctis and basically use it to auto-collect loots from the salvaged cans as I discintigrate them with my noctis. Sure the MTU has the alternate ability to pull in wrecks. Icing on the cake. the MTU + noctis is baller. Nothing compares to it. The noctis is stll viable. There's nothing wrong with it.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-09-19 05:00:48 UTC
Aven Valkyr wrote:
Dude honestly, I don't even bother dropping MTU while in combat. I do ALL my salvaging outside combat. I put the MTU in my noctis and basically use it to auto-collect loots from the salvaged cans as I discintigrate them with my noctis. Sure the MTU has the alternate ability to pull in wrecks. Icing on the cake. the MTU + noctis is baller. Nothing compares to it. The noctis is stll viable. There's nothing wrong with it.



Lol, thought I was the only one that caught on to that trick.
Once im pulling the last set of wrecks, I drop the MTU and let it collect loot while I finish the last few wrecks.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#10 - 2015-09-19 05:31:42 UTC
I just keep 6 in my maurader cargo and drop them as I enter each room. When I run out of cans I get my noctis and go collect the loot and salvage. I fit just one tractor on it for the rare wreck that was out of MTU range that I have to run down.
Iain Cariaba
#11 - 2015-09-19 06:16:08 UTC
Let the MTU ball up the wrecks while you do other things, then come back later in a noctis fit with 8 salvagers. Used to do this AFKtaring in null. An extra 40-60mil in loot/salvage for taking 10 minutes every couple hours to clean up the wrecks.

Noctis does not need a balance pass, as it excells quite nicely in its job.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-09-19 06:20:45 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Let the MTU ball up the wrecks while you do other things, then come back later in a noctis fit with 8 salvagers. Used to do this AFKtaring in null. An extra 40-60mil in loot/salvage for taking 10 minutes every couple hours to clean up the wrecks.

Noctis does not need a balance pass, as it excells quite nicely in its job.


I personally don't like using the MTU Noctis combo.
I simply use one in My Noctis to collect the loot so I don't have to open and collect every can.

I had tried the MTU combo, but the issue I faced was that I ran out of cargo space for loot due to MTUs.

I also despise back tracking, which is why I hate having to go back and drop loot in order to go get more loot.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#13 - 2015-09-19 08:03:54 UTC
you dump an MTU as you warp into sites and then fit your noctis with 1 tractor (a cloak if you live in W or null) and salvagers...

pick up the mtu as you warp out and have the noctis follow you in on an alt or a fleetmate
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#14 - 2015-09-19 11:45:37 UTC
The mtu is still a bit slow to pull in wrecks. If you run a site/mission quick enough you may come back and the mtu still has half the wrecks to pull and that can take quite a while.

The noctis still has as edge over the mtu when it comes to speed and, in hisec, the noctis can't be shot without a concord response.

That said, a buff to salvaging chance to drones would be nice.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#15 - 2015-09-19 13:43:43 UTC
It has always seemed crazy to me that the MTU has significantly longer tractor range than a fully skilled and T2 fit Noctis, to me that is the only area that I think needs attention. Shorten MTU range, increase Noctis or a combination of both would not matter much to me.

Other than this I agree the MTU are in a decent place as a whole.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-09-19 15:57:53 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
It has always seemed crazy to me that the MTU has significantly longer tractor range than a fully skilled and T2 fit Noctis, to me that is the only area that I think needs attention. Shorten MTU range, increase Noctis or a combination of both would not matter much to me.

Other than this I agree the MTU are in a decent place as a whole.



There's no need for that.

MTU has a longer range, but you're limited to 1, unless you can micro manage more.
The Noctis, on the other hand, can pull in multiple wreck from 96km at 2400m/s..

I believe even the best MTU is only 1500 m/s and again, is limited to just one.

I think they're balanced just fine the way they are.
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#17 - 2015-09-19 16:39:07 UTC
Is there anything actually wrong with the Noctis, or are MTUs just so easy to use and effective it has sidelined other tractor effects?

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Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-09-19 16:48:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ersahi Kir
While I wouldn't complain if the noctis got a tractor range buff, I can say without reservation that it is perfectly fine without it.

I like putting a signal amp in the lows so I can lock 12 targets. Smile

Chance Ravinne wrote:
Is there anything actually wrong with the Noctis, or are MTUs just so easy to use and effective it has sidelined other tractor effects?


It's the ease of use of the MTU. One click to deploy and all you have to do is remember to pick up the loot.

The noctis takes a minimum amount of effort to use. At this point the only way to make the noctis better than a MTU is to introduce a mid slot module that automatically worked all the targeting and tractor beams for you while you afk drone salvage.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-09-19 17:28:59 UTC
The noctis is fine and just works better with an MTU rather than being replaced by it.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-09-19 17:35:04 UTC
I'll tell a really cool use I had for the Noctis.

Fit 8 x tractor T2.
Warp to location, drop mobile depot start pulling in all the wrecks.
Once all the wrecks are in range, drop MTU to collect loot and refit to 8 x Salvager.
Salvage wrecks, refit to 8 x tractor, scoop MTU, MD, and wrecks.

Repeat as necessary.

It's actually really efficient, but requires a little bit more management.
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