EVE General Discussion

I play on the beach. I'm that shady douche selling Antimatter to tourists. What I like best about the beach?

I can dip my toes into the water, or wade out (but not too far). It's a little scary at times, cause I know there are sharks about, but if I remain vigilant I might get back to shore, or swim to another part of the ocean before they sever my femoral.

Sometimes I can daytrip into a current that can take me very far out to sea, but I always know the way back to shore. I find that the beach is just about the right size. It's always there.

If we expand it too much, where would all the sharks go? A beach with no water is just a desert.

Im increasingly of the opinion that the effect of PLEX traders on the market is more pervasive than often thought, or was previously the case due to other mitigating factors in preceeding years.

I think since about August 2014 till atleast June 2015 (and somewhat therafter) a large part of PLEX on the market has been bought up and stockpiled, rather than consumed by end-users.

Its been withheld from the market, to a 20-25% increase between August/June, and now being released only at quantities sufficient to atleast maintain the 1bil mark, and probably a substantial part of that revenue is re-invested into buying more PLEX for the stockpiles whenever its available cheaper.

I dont think profit is the core motivation in this, although certainly it involves some. There is some other longer term motivation at work.

The ISBoxer handicap alone should have dramatically reduced PLEX demand. No doubt it did, but since its not readily apparent on the price history, I surmise someone took advantage of that drop in demand to immediately and persistently buy up the cheaper PLEX.

Activity levels have dropped, which should entail both reduced demand and supply, depending on how you argue it.
Its unclear what kind of player activity has dropped, but summa summarum, it rationally, probably, should have kept PLEX stable, since you are losing both isk PLEXing accounts, as well as RLM PLEXing accounts, in (for the sake of argument) equal amounts.
One caveat to that would have been a sudden massive spontaneous upswing in multitraining behavior, but that is not really likely, hasnt telegraphed itself in anyway (socially or statistically).

PLEX at 1 billion certainly prompts more IRL purchase of PLEX into the market, but when weighed against the profits of an entity that has already managed to increase its PLEX stockpile value by 20-25% since last August, buying those up, whilst selling a few, results in largely the same status quo. Except that since they are still buying/stockpiling more than they sell, they still starve the market, and very effectively can prevent a drop in the price. They may loose 100k so per unit when buying it off the market, but that is nothing compared to the latent profit of their stockpile, and furthermore when they buy it off the market for stockpiling it, they starve the market even further, offsetting competition and increasing demand for that which they already hold in probably thousands of units of PLEX.

PLEX will ALWAYS sell. Even if they lose 100k buying one up, they make it back when someone buys their listed PLEX at 100k more above that. +/-, and in advantage, the market remains at their price. The price increment is incidental, since their stockpile of thoudands of units has already appreciated 20-25%.

So, considering the ISBox hit, the reduced activity figures (new/old, plexed or subbed), and the small incentive for buying more PLEX with IRL money (which apparently has been shown to not increase nor decrease IRL PLEX purchases substantially), its price should have remained stable or even have dropped. It did not. It increased 20-25%. Why is that?

I think some entity just had gotten so super-rich, and no longer had anywhere else to pump its huge surpluss fiscal leverage into for worthwhile profits, that it decided to buy and dominate the PLEX market. Just because it can, and because its a logical and expedient progression once your infrastructure is built/secured and you have astronomical income/assets with nowhere to put it to use.

As an extension of capitalism, as control of the means of production, once you have that, your remaining challenge is to control the socio-economic means of existance necessary for those who actually man the production (both yours and that of competitors). Isk is, in many ways, like company funny money. You can only use it in company stores. PLEX, however, is like oxygen/food/water/shelter all rolled into one, for thr people working to make enough funny money to purchase PLEX, so as to survive.

To paraphrase my favorite sci-fi author, as relevant to EVE:

-He who controls the PLEX, controls the universe.

1) PLEX is finite, in the amount that it is ingame, as only increased by purchase from outside of it, and decreased by its consumption. But if an entity in EVE buys up, stockpiles, and witholds that PLEX from the market, its finite quantity available for use, is reduced even further. Buying a PLEX does not consume it. It retains its value.

2) Its relative value ingame is a result of supply and demand. Again, if an entity buys up vast quantities of PLEX, supply is reduced, against demand, leading to increased value per unit of their stockpile.

3) Its price is not severely affected by how much people are prepared to pay for PLEX. For two reasons. A) It has been shown that an increase or decrease in the ingame value of PLEX does not substantially affect how many units of PLEX people buy with IRL. B) When PLEX prices rise, less people stay ingame to buy them with isk, which offsets and counterbalances the amount of players who then are motivated to buy PLEX for profit sale ingame. Its +/-. They roughly equal each other out.

4) The central idea I am trying to get across, is that when an entity has enough assets to buy up a substantial part of the ingame PLEX, and withhold it from the market, this increases its value as a factor of reduced supply. The more of this you can do, the more profitable it gets, and the more PLEX you can continue to buy, and withold, which again results in higher prices. Sooner or later, thevalue of your stockpile is so appreciated that buying more and more PLEX off the market becomes more and more rational, becuase not only do you then own that PLEX, but by depriving it off the market, you increased its value.

I don't disagree that market manipulation by plex buyers is going on (many of those doing it have openly admitted to doing so), but it is worth pointing out that there has been a significant counter-balance to the ISBoxer reduction in those buying PLEX off the market for isk, that I believe has heavily reduced the amount of players buying them for real money. What is that counterbalance?

Capital changes.

Ask yourself, when have you ever bought a PLEX with cash to sell on the market? I don't doubt a few people have never done it, but I would wager heavily that there are three main purchase-reasons.

The first is game start-up; isk generation begins at a trickle, and starting off with a PLEX-worth of isk in the pocket is certainly going to soften the slog at the start. I'll openly admit to having done this myself. First thing I did when i joined the game was buy a PLEX and turn it in to isk for a set of +5 learning implants, and burned the change in to skillbooks.

The second type of buyer is the kind with literally no in-game isk generation. Drop a PLEX, fund your PVP for a month. I can certainly understand this mindset as frankly ratting sucks, and I absolutely refuse to ever do it again. Fortunately I built up a bank of isk for vanity purchases, and I can now happily live off SRP, but if I wasn't in a group that gave me that luxury I would have to decide whether to spent £ or spend the time ratting and hating my life.

Lastly, there is the "big purchase". Someone who just rats a bit, relies on SRP to replace lost ships, and maybe dabbles in the market can fund the occasional vanity-pirate-battleship or carrier, but has to seriously knuckle down if they want to get into a Super. I can easily imagine quite a number of Supercaps are bought via PLEX selling. And since Pheobe, Supercapitals have been hit hard; between the Jump Changes (not that I'm bitching about that - I own an Aeon, but I thoroughlly agree power projection had to get hamstrung), and the sov changes (note, that since fighters can't attack POS, literally every structure Supercarriers could attack are now gone), its unlikely that anyone who didn't already have a Super has much motivation to get one. I believe that this is causing a significant drop in people spending RL cash for PLEX.

conundrum ?

it's a live market run by real people, supply and demand dictate prices. what part of that is a conundrum ?

if you can't afford it then i guess you can't buy it, tuff luck, work harder to earn more isk.

i don't hear any people who use plex suggest buying one every 2 months and halfing the cost to 25 cent a day to keep running.
they are not interested in paying full stop. for whatever reason they think EVE is free to play using plex, when it is not, someone is paying CCP for the months sub.

The free-stuff generation has a very broad definition of what a human right is. I assume gaming is in there somehow.

The Discussion in General (in General Discussion) has run its course

long ago~

People who provide no content, claiming the thread has no content.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZcsH_O4meg

Have you subbed?
Have you bought PLEX with RLM?

I dont mean to infer anything by your answer, just interested in player behavior in terms of these two elements.

By way of reciprocation for that, I myself have subbed my first account for 90 days, and an alt for 90 days, for a total of 60e, in total.

Therafter Ive been able to keep these and subsequent accounts PLEXed with ingame isk revenues.
Ive never bought PLEX with RLM.

That adds selfloathing...