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[Vanguard] Combat and Navy BC Rebalance

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Alexis Nightwish
#101 - 2015-09-11 18:59:15 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Destoya wrote:
This flat 12.5% drone velocity bonus on the Proph and Myrm is a little strange in my opinion. Was there any consideration made to it being something like 10% speed, 10% tracking? I have concerns that increasing the drone speed without increasing tracking as well will cause the drones to miss more often against small targets, and against heavier targets the drone speed bonus is hardly worth considering.

I know sentry drone tracking is something that you are pretty wary about giving out after the Domi and Ishtar but I hardly think a small flat bonus would break these two ships in the sentry role.


This bonus is the same one that the Algos, Dragoon and VNI get. It only applies to the drone's chase speed, not its orbit speed. This means the impact on tracking is minimal (unless we increase the speed too much, at which point the drones have trouble slowing down to enter their orbits).

In practice, this bonus is more useful for reducing travel time of your drones when sending them after far away targets, and less useful for helping them catch really fast moving targets.

Could you please differentiate between "velocity" and "MWD speed" then? The role bonus states a bonus to "velocity" but "velocity" in every other context is the base speed of the ship.

Perhaps the role bonus should read "+12.5% bonus to drone MWD speed"

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#102 - 2015-09-11 18:59:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
Dat Navy Drake doe! Shocked

As much drone BW/bay as the Amarr and Gallente, most agile BC, second fastest, arguably strongest tank...

Don't get me wrong as I have been waiting for BC buffs for over a year, but damn!

Remember the days of Drake fleets everywhere? You don't have to be Nostradamus to see that we're going to have a repeat but with Navy Issue Drakes.

Please consider cutting the drones to 40BW/60bay, and reducing the agility and/or speed. If you do that and the Navy Drake falls into disuse, you can buff them up later using the fast release cadence.


surely that drone bandwidth/bay is a typo fozzie??
alongside the excessive crazy hp and mobility buff..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#103 - 2015-09-11 18:59:18 UTC
make me wonder how ferox/Drake/Drake Navy will fare against Tengu in PVE world
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#104 - 2015-09-11 18:59:33 UTC
Esnaelc Sin'led wrote:
Kinetic has always been Caldari's damage type.

Except this isn't actually the case, it is only a minority of caldari missile hulls that have a kinetic lock. Throw a kinetic lock onto the caracal instead of a dps bonsu (or remove it from the drake) and you have a more noticeable step up in effective dps against the fits you actually encounter. The current mix and mash approach just doesn't make sense.
Ezmerald
SAFE-SPACE INCORPORATED
#105 - 2015-09-11 19:00:50 UTC
Why do BC's still have such a bad lock range? They need to have atleast over 100km. You can in no way efficiently use MJD's currently unless you plan on giving more mid slots for target range.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#106 - 2015-09-11 19:01:06 UTC
can't you just give all BCs 100k lock range at max skill? so you don't have to fit a sebo for the lone purpose of pre locking before mjd?

or just ad an attack MJD variant which boosts your lock range while its spooling up

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#107 - 2015-09-11 19:03:39 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Rename Missiles skills to kinetic damage skills. FFS non missiles races are better in missiles than Caldari. If you want to keep kinetic lock on Caldari, make Minmatars missiles boats - explosions lock, an Amarr EM lock. That would be interesting distinction, don't you think? You are denying your own missiles philosphy - selectable damage.

I do not understand the ruckus about the Kinetic damage bonus. The difference on a Cerb with 3 BCU between CN Scourge and CN Mjolnir is 90 DPS. Considering that some races have extremely high Kinetic resistances, they can reduce your applied kinetic DPS and if you chose another damage type, you can apply more DPS.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Ayuren Aakiwa
When i Look Up At The Stars I Am Filled With Rage
#108 - 2015-09-11 19:05:35 UTC
Exciting stuff! Really looking forward to actually being able to use the navy drake/cane
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#109 - 2015-09-11 19:06:12 UTC
Kalam Harkair wrote:
I've a curious about max targeting ranges, specifically with the Hurricane vs. Cyclone. Why does the Hurricane (bonus for medium projectiles) have a max targeting range further than the Cyclone (bonus for heavy missiles)?

If the Cyclone uses HMLs it can't, without assistance, target out to it's max missile range.


Arty cane can project past 60km no problem before this buff. After this buff 80km will be pretty easy. Cyclone is more brawler orientated, so hams/scram/web/neuts. HML could be a thing, but shield resist bonus on drake fits the role better.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Jarsoom Blade
Blade's Legion
#110 - 2015-09-11 19:06:15 UTC
Faster Hurricane?! I'm excited to see what happens on my nanocane.

"Two things I've learned lately. One: don't get jammed. And two: stationary ships don't react well to 1400's" - John Rourke, Clear Skies 2
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#111 - 2015-09-11 19:06:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Thanatos Marathon
Color me a little worried about projection issues and power creep.

The one thing I would have love to see that they need is higher sensor strength across the board.

- Than

JUSTK is recruiting
dreynar swyglou
Riemannian Manifold Torus
#112 - 2015-09-11 19:06:50 UTC
Very nicely done
ApolloF117 HUN
The All-Seeing Eye
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#113 - 2015-09-11 19:13:22 UTC
why is the cyclone has still crap dps with hams?
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#114 - 2015-09-11 19:13:36 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
All these buffs should also apply to command ships as they struggle with the same issues Combat battlecruisers do, just on a lesser scale as theyre flown less and are also a tiny bit better. If they do apply to command ships aswell, then sorry for posting this.

EDIT: the role bonus I mean and the agility buffs. Also the Absolution needs its optimal bonus finally.


Yes! Make my Command Ship worth risking again :D
Yngvar ayShorn
Einheit X-6
#115 - 2015-09-11 19:14:44 UTC
Maybe +1 Launcher to the Cyclone, pls?

+250.000 Skillpunkte für neue Accounts mit meinem Link!  -->> Klick mich <<-- -- Minmatar FactionWar --
Funless Saisima
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#116 - 2015-09-11 19:15:12 UTC
When does this hit SISI?
Alexis Nightwish
#117 - 2015-09-11 19:19:16 UTC
Please bump the Cyclone up to 60km targeting range. This will put it in the same targeting class as all the other non-drone BCs (which will allow them to target lock to 106km when bonused by a CS link for MJD shenanigans)

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Eli Porter
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2015-09-11 19:22:49 UTC
Why go with Range over a Tracking role bonus? Doesn't it just make them more similar to Attack Battlecruisers?
Lucius Exitius
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#119 - 2015-09-11 19:23:17 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Rename Missiles skills to kinetic damage skills. FFS non missiles races are better in missiles than Caldari. If you want to keep kinetic lock on Caldari, make Minmatars missiles boats - explosions lock, an Amarr EM lock. That would be interesting distinction, don't you think? You are denying your own missiles philosphy - selectable damage.

I do not understand the ruckus about the Kinetic damage bonus. The difference on a Cerb with 3 BCU between CN Scourge and CN Mjolnir is 90 DPS. Considering that some races have extremely high Kinetic resistances, they can reduce your applied kinetic DPS and if you chose another damage type, you can apply more DPS.


You can say the same thing about projectiles or other hulls that don't get the lock. Except they aren't limited. Why do it for certain missile boats but not projectiles or other boats outside of Caldari...
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#120 - 2015-09-11 19:24:19 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Rename Missiles skills to kinetic damage skills. FFS non missiles races are better in missiles than Caldari. If you want to keep kinetic lock on Caldari, make Minmatars missiles boats - explosions lock, an Amarr EM lock. That would be interesting distinction, don't you think? You are denying your own missiles philosphy - selectable damage.

I do not understand the ruckus about the Kinetic damage bonus. The difference on a Cerb with 3 BCU between CN Scourge and CN Mjolnir is 90 DPS. Considering that some races have extremely high Kinetic resistances, they can reduce your applied kinetic DPS and if you chose another damage type, you can apply more DPS.

cerb has a 5% bonus to kinetic damage plus a 5% rof bonus, where the drake has a 10% kinetic damage bonus. The drake loses a lot more damage by switching damage types. so cerb loses ~100 damage, drake loses ~150 damage. this was based on the first setups I had in eft both 3x bcus and heavy missiles with furry ammo. with faction ammo looks like the cerb loses ~80 damage where the drake loses ~130 dps,

I'm tempted to say bring back the 7x launcher drake with a 5% kinetic damage bonus for 8.75 launchers with kinetic but 7 otherwise. where the current drake has 9 effective launchers with kinetic but 6 otherwise. Or maybe give the drake a 5% bonus to other damage types, Some other missile ships have the 10% primary 5% other damage types.

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