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Last thread about CSM was closed for not being constructive... Take 2 on the CSM
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Ai Shun
#321 - 2011-12-09 07:23:57 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Yikes!! I hope we're not encouraging this kind of shameless vote-grabbing. Isk is perhaps an effective way to obtain votes, but a candidate that relies heavily on this doesn't gain much in the way of legitimacy as truly representing the people. Its a lot harder to respect a candidate and trust their motivations if they openly bought their seat on the CSM.

With as many trust issues as pod people already have with the nullsec-dominate CSM6, hopefully CSM7 will see some cleaner campaigns that rely more on votes cast by people who genuinely agree with a candidate's ideas and principles.


Do you think Ishtanchuk Fazmarai is going to stand? Or is he still just on the bleating side and not really that interested in the doing?
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#322 - 2011-12-09 08:18:01 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I still want to know what this John and Phil thing is all about....am I missing something?


We just had our elections here in NZ. John Key, the charismatic leader of the National Party, versus Phil Goff, the stand-in Labour candidate because nobody else wanted the ****** job.


Ahhh ok. No wonder that made no sense to me :) I feel much less out of the loop now. Thanks!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#323 - 2011-12-09 08:50:30 UTC
Elect A Carebear wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
What exactly does a candidate need isk for to run a CSM campaign? I still haven't heard a great answer to this question yet. Engaging in dialogue with players, making up campaign posters / propaganda, doing interviews with media, rallying friends to invite their friends to vote, all these things are absolutely free.



The things you listed are things that candidates should be doing (I wouldn't vote for one if he didn't). The funding is a (perhaps hare-brained) idea of mine.

People are attracted to ISK, and particularly attracted to those who give it out for free. They develop a sort of loyalty to those they receive gifts from. In some countries, it has happened that candidates have glided into office on events where they give out the equivalent of $5 to every attendee for the attendee's promise to vote for said candidate.

In Eve, you can get more creative than just giving money out. For example, you could do a piñata event, when the candidate undocks in ships that a corpmate then pops, giving attendees the excitement of the "first grab", plus free stuff. Another idea is to go around belts, or to enter people's lvl 4 missions, drop a can with some symbolic amount of sweet loot in it, abandon it (not ganking carebears here), and give it a pithy slogan for a name or something.

There are probably much better ideas that I haven't had yet, mostly because this is all the result of a caffeine-fueled mind blast, but you probably get what I mean.

Someone who receives free stuff with no string attached is far more likely to tell their friends, if only because of the "wtf" factor.

Doing something like this costs spectacular amounts of ISK though, and I don't know of anyone who would be able to afford it single-handedly. Well... moon-goo funded nullsec alliances probably could, but that's not the sort of candidates I'm looking to support.

100 people donating 100 mil (a day or two worth of level 4 missioning), makes 10 bil. You can do a lot with that.


Yeah you could probably persuade 10 people to claim that they'll vote for you.

Of course, EVE being EVE, and voting being utterly anonymous and untraceable, 9 of them will likely make a point of not doing so just because they can.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#324 - 2011-12-09 22:36:39 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
get out.

please
Elect A Carebear
Doomheim
#325 - 2011-12-09 23:49:37 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

Yeah you could probably persuade 10 people to claim that they'll vote for you.

Of course, EVE being EVE, and voting being utterly anonymous and untraceable, 9 of them will likely make a point of not doing so just because they can.


True, Eve players are a slippery bunch.

Anyway, I suppose I should keep quiet until I have at least some worthwhile content on the site, so people don't immediately jump to the conclusion I'm just trying to scam them.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#326 - 2011-12-10 03:31:17 UTC
I can't believe we have some pubbie in here crying about not getting more space barbie shoes to dress up in because they got spaceships instead.

What the hell? Go play secondlife you overbearing faggle.
Xutech
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#327 - 2011-12-10 06:08:54 UTC
The OP has not yet invoked Puzzle pirates, but I have a feeling they will soon.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#328 - 2011-12-10 09:46:20 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Yikes!! I hope we're not encouraging this kind of shameless vote-grabbing. Isk is perhaps an effective way to obtain votes, but a candidate that relies heavily on this doesn't gain much in the way of legitimacy as truly representing the people. Its a lot harder to respect a candidate and trust their motivations if they openly bought their seat on the CSM.

With as many trust issues as pod people already have with the nullsec-dominate CSM6, hopefully CSM7 will see some cleaner campaigns that rely more on votes cast by people who genuinely agree with a candidate's ideas and principles.


Do you think Ishtanchuk Fazmarai is going to stand? Or is he still just on the bleating side and not really that interested in the doing?


As I stated a while before...

Quote:
I would try and forward as candidate if i thought I was fit to that job, but I am aware of my limitations and so will just point the direction rather than lead there; i am a thinker, not a maker.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
May Zonday
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#329 - 2011-12-11 17:51:30 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
So... no affordable NEx store... no full-fledged Incarna... no new casual content... no new solo content... no new PvE content...

Why should I keep paying to play this game?


Uh, I think the answer there is obvious.

Get out.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#330 - 2011-12-11 19:08:50 UTC
May Zonday wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
So... no affordable NEx store... no full-fledged Incarna... no new casual content... no new solo content... no new PvE content...

Why should I keep paying to play this game?


Uh, I think the answer there is obvious.

Get out.


True? Oh my god, I hadn't thought of it! Thank you, you are my hero!

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Kai Jyokoroi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#331 - 2011-12-19 16:31:14 UTC
ITT people complaining that they're bored of the game when they're so risk averse in a video game that they'll only ever do the In The Forest, Killing Boars part of the game, and wonder why no-one cares about banding together to elect a space MP to improve it when the Hear The Lamentations Of Their Women part lurks temptingly over the horizon
Kai Jyokoroi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#332 - 2011-12-19 16:31:52 UTC
Oh and also people who literally care that they can't spend enough on their space barbie
Torja Sineda
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#333 - 2012-01-03 15:05:06 UTC
There appears to be two schools of thought here – I repeat them to check that I’ve understood them properly:

Status Quo:
CCP introduced CSM to give players more say in the direction of Eve. CCP is happy to give players equal opportunity to participate, and failure to participate comes at your own personal loss. This effectively makes the CSM, like the forums part of the “official” meta-game of Eve, and like all parts of Eve, there will be winners and losers.

OP proposal :
CCP intends for the CSM to be a part of their development/customer feedback process, and it’s primary goal is to improve Eve. We would also have to assume that having more even representation from the different parts of the game would be better in achieving the goal of a “better” Eve. It is not intended that the CSM be used to advance the interests of individuals in the game.

I don’t know enough to comment on the validity of all these assumptions, but for my personal opinion, I’m happy to lose “equity of opportunity” in exchange for a greater likelihood of a “better” Eve. Of course I may be somewhat optimistic in assuming that a more representative CSM will lead to a “better” game. I am pretty sure that CCP would like to have the best of both worlds.

I’m guessing most of the posters would not put any credence in the second philosophy, and thus default to the first?
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#334 - 2012-01-03 21:19:42 UTC
Torja Sineda wrote:
There appears to be two schools of thought here – I repeat them to check that I’ve understood them properly:

Status Quo:
CCP introduced CSM to give players more say in the direction of Eve. CCP is happy to give players equal opportunity to participate, and failure to participate comes at your own personal loss. This effectively makes the CSM, like the forums part of the “official” meta-game of Eve, and like all parts of Eve, there will be winners and losers.

OP proposal :
CCP intends for the CSM to be a part of their development/customer feedback process, and it’s primary goal is to improve Eve. We would also have to assume that having more even representation from the different parts of the game would be better in achieving the goal of a “better” Eve. It is not intended that the CSM be used to advance the interests of individuals in the game.

I don’t know enough to comment on the validity of all these assumptions, but for my personal opinion, I’m happy to lose “equity of opportunity” in exchange for a greater likelihood of a “better” Eve. Of course I may be somewhat optimistic in assuming that a more representative CSM will lead to a “better” game. I am pretty sure that CCP would like to have the best of both worlds.

I’m guessing most of the posters would not put any credence in the second philosophy, and thus default to the first?


That's what i feel. i am waiting for the minutes to be released as apparently Hilmar wanted to talk about the CSM, but dunno wether they did so.

Anyway, I still think the same as when i started the thread (with my main account, now cancelled). And after trying to contact the CSM member I voted with both my accounts, with null result, I really think all those nullsec CSM only can speak for their friends.