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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

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Estevan Valladares
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#861 - 2015-09-01 17:21:22 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5438509

And what if the game rules change ? One of the rules that has never changed is that rules can change.

On a side note, there is not a single reason why CONCORD wont start podding people. There was something that prevented NPCs from podding people which is not true anymore.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#862 - 2015-09-01 17:23:09 UTC
Throth wrote:
-obviously I don't, since I am choosing not to play anymore, and you're ignoring the fact that it wasn't always this way and attempting to perpetuate the assumption that it was.
But that's just it: it was always like that — if anything, it's far less so now than ever before. The change you're blaming for your decision to leave has gone in the opposite direction of the one you're implying.

Quote:
I clearly said I am taking responsibility for not wanting to research out of game resources on griefer techniques
Why would you do that, when you can just petition them? No research or OOG-resources needed.

Quote:
Again, I'm leaving the game.
…after a decade, when the interactions you complain about should have been obvious to you from day 1.

Britney Fears wrote:
Imagine that you have a pilot with max align skills, mid-grade nomad set, faction inertial stabs in lows, a web alt but you get bumped just once undocking in a HS 1,0 system.
There's little to no reason to ever get bumped on an empire undock ramp.
Throth
Doomheim
#863 - 2015-09-01 17:24:44 UTC
Estevan Valladares wrote:
Yeah, yeah. For the entirety of EVE existance people come with delusions of importance brought from the experience of other games or other deluded people.

And if you really know EVE, you know this was never a solo or casual friendly place, EVER.

But you can try to indulge on self pity as long as you like. People does that all the time.

"Oh, I lost stuff, the game is not what it used to be."
"Oh, they exploded my ship and I did nothing, I gonna quit."
"Oh, they were mean in the chat and ccp didnt do nothing, I gonna quit."

And other some such "everyone has to make me the epic hero in this game every other game does".

There is always one of those around.


To the guys that quote the "entirety of Eve existence" from their toons that have existed since 2015, use a toon that would be able to back that experience up, or STFU. You make my lawls hurt.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#864 - 2015-09-01 17:27:13 UTC
Throth wrote:


"you pay 15 bucks to take part in a sandbox game where everyone you meet could be out to get you"
-obviously I don't, since I am choosing not to play anymore, and you're ignoring the fact that it wasn't always this way and attempting to perpetuate the assumption that it was. I admit that it has become this, and am therefore leaving. How is this defending my ego again? It obviously isn't.

"rather than take responsibility like an adult"
-I clearly said I am taking responsibility for not wanting to research out of game resources on griefer techniques, and consequently I have decided to leave.


"Why not jsut accept that you aren't cut out for the kinds of interactions this game provides?"
-Again, I'm leaving the game.


Then why are you here right now again? Why not just biomass now and save you and the rest of us the headache of your presence?

And you are right, I wasn't here from the beginning. I started in 2007. Since 2007 (the earliest time I can personally verify) it's been "like this".

Which means you spent 8 years at least playing a game you weren't cut out for. Somehow you claim the game has no PVE. The 2 8/10s and 1 10/10 I did last night, and the high sec incursions I ran with an armor community (for a change, still love the guys in TVP thought) must have been my imagination. I fly 4 bil worth of Machariel in High sec a couple times a week (casually...sometimes I don't even warp I'm so casual), and yet because I actually know how to play, I haven't been ganked and feel no need to publicly rage quit.

Again, good luck in whatever form of entertainment you choose later on.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#865 - 2015-09-01 17:28:35 UTC
Throth wrote:
Estevan Valladares wrote:
Yeah, yeah. For the entirety of EVE existance people come with delusions of importance brought from the experience of other games or other deluded people.

And if you really know EVE, you know this was never a solo or casual friendly place, EVER.

But you can try to indulge on self pity as long as you like. People does that all the time.

"Oh, I lost stuff, the game is not what it used to be."
"Oh, they exploded my ship and I did nothing, I gonna quit."
"Oh, they were mean in the chat and ccp didnt do nothing, I gonna quit."

And other some such "everyone has to make me the epic hero in this game every other game does".

There is always one of those around.


To the guys that quote the "entirety of Eve existence" from their toons that thave exitsted since 2015, use a toon that would be able to back that experience up, or STFU. You make my lawls hurt.


What percentage of pre 2005 characters are still under the ownership of their creators?
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#866 - 2015-09-01 17:28:53 UTC
Estevan Valladares wrote:
Everyone uses the same excuse about exploits.

Exploits arent EVERY single way game mechanics can be used against you.


True, but if you read CCP's conclusion to the hyperdunking thread, they acknowledge that they're not going to consider it an exploit as long as it remains nothing more than a dull roar. If it becomes too prevalent, they'll reconsider the decision.

It's not a cut and dried, open and shut case. CCP's ruling rests primarily on the assumption that it's too difficult for most people to pull off.

And that's the flip side of your point: machines are terrible referees, so if you are continuously bending the rules-as-written until they scream, you must acknowledge that you're working within a grey area, that your tricks might not survive examination by human GMs.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Britney Fears
EVE Corporation 98582134
#867 - 2015-09-01 17:30:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
There's little to no reason to ever get bumped on an empire undock ramp.



Again you talk with knowing little small bits about something.
Do you recomend instant undock?
Throth
Doomheim
#868 - 2015-09-01 17:31:52 UTC
Odie McCracken wrote:
Throth wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Throth wrote:
I quit because there is nothing left for me as a casual gamer. I'm tired of the expectations that I have too keep up with every exploit and change or else I'm deserving of griefing. It's another version of victim blaming, only in a virtual world.


If you are a 'victim' in a video game, your leaving is no losss to anyone. The only people who use the term 'victim blaming' are people who don't like to take responsibility for their actions. And yes, it's your job to keep up with game changes.

You played a game that doesn't really fit into what you want (and never really has) and yet somehow that's the games fault? No it's not, it's yours.


I don't have a job in a game. I didn't pay $15 to have a job; I paid to play a game. I played a game since 2004 that changed from a game where you got to pilot space ships to a game for griefers. I held on as long as I could to the small amount of PvE that was left in the game until it was gone. And now I'm leaving. I never said it was anyone's fault; I clearly stated the facts. Griefers like to grief, and then blame the victims of their griefing because the victims weren't 100% up to date on the techniques the griefers were currently using based on whatever outside sources some choose to use. I take responsibility for not spending the extra time to surf the internet for out-of-game resources to combat the griefers. I take responsibility and clearly state that a game that treats it's players as if the game is a job is not a game I wish to play anymore, and as a player from the beginning I will correct you in your false assumptions and false perceptios that the game was always this way; it was not. You can't use you deception on me - I was here at the beginning. Try that "it was always this way" bull sht on someone else.


Everything you are describing has been around since 2003. If you bury your head in the sand you may not see it.

I remember back in 2004 it was cruise missle Kessies in Yulai. The 'griefing' as you seem to want to call it has always been a part of Eve, and is not against any rules of the game.

Sorry you're not having fun anymore, but a 10+ year run in any game will do that to someone. However, don't say that this type of behavior is something new that CCP is encouraging. It has been this way since the start.


I'm still loving the 2015 toons telling me how "it has always been"... As a legitimate player since 2004, I've never been a victim or know of victims of "missile kessies". The fact that it doesn't still exist negates your example - if it still existed and I failed to recognize it, then it would fit you example. There "was" and exploit according you you (one that a legitimate player as myself does not recognise) that no longer exists - CCP fixed it. I am talking about an occurrence of CCP officially stating that all is as intended. Phk off twt.
Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#869 - 2015-09-01 17:32:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Odie McCracken
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Throth wrote:
Estevan Valladares wrote:
Yeah, yeah. For the entirety of EVE existance people come with delusions of importance brought from the experience of other games or other deluded people.

And if you really know EVE, you know this was never a solo or casual friendly place, EVER.

But you can try to indulge on self pity as long as you like. People does that all the time.

"Oh, I lost stuff, the game is not what it used to be."
"Oh, they exploded my ship and I did nothing, I gonna quit."
"Oh, they were mean in the chat and ccp didnt do nothing, I gonna quit."

And other some such "everyone has to make me the epic hero in this game every other game does".

There is always one of those around.


To the guys that quote the "entirety of Eve existence" from their toons that thave exitsted since 2015, use a toon that would be able to back that experience up, or STFU. You make my lawls hurt.


What percentage of pre 2005 characters are still under the ownership of their creators?


I still have 3x 2004 characters where I was the original owner. I started this one because I came back to Eve and wanted to relearn and not just jump in with 100mil+ skillpoints.

Edit: none of the accounts are active.
Estevan Valladares
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#870 - 2015-09-01 17:35:12 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Throth wrote:
Estevan Valladares wrote:
Yeah, yeah. For the entirety of EVE existance people come with delusions of importance brought from the experience of other games or other deluded people.

And if you really know EVE, you know this was never a solo or casual friendly place, EVER.

But you can try to indulge on self pity as long as you like. People does that all the time.

"Oh, I lost stuff, the game is not what it used to be."
"Oh, they exploded my ship and I did nothing, I gonna quit."
"Oh, they were mean in the chat and ccp didnt do nothing, I gonna quit."

And other some such "everyone has to make me the epic hero in this game every other game does".

There is always one of those around.


To the guys that quote the "entirety of Eve existence" from their toons that thave exitsted since 2015, use a toon that would be able to back that experience up, or STFU. You make my lawls hurt.


What percentage of pre 2005 characters are still under the ownership of their creators?


Exactly. I can go right now to the Bazaar and buy one to back my claim in that reasoning of his.

And his can be bought one aswell.

I have been selling characters for their ages from a long time, and this one will in some years be one of those.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul
Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#871 - 2015-09-01 17:37:07 UTC
Throth wrote:
Odie McCracken wrote:
Throth wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Throth wrote:
I quit because there is nothing left for me as a casual gamer. I'm tired of the expectations that I have too keep up with every exploit and change or else I'm deserving of griefing. It's another version of victim blaming, only in a virtual world.


If you are a 'victim' in a video game, your leaving is no losss to anyone. The only people who use the term 'victim blaming' are people who don't like to take responsibility for their actions. And yes, it's your job to keep up with game changes.

You played a game that doesn't really fit into what you want (and never really has) and yet somehow that's the games fault? No it's not, it's yours.


I don't have a job in a game. I didn't pay $15 to have a job; I paid to play a game. I played a game since 2004 that changed from a game where you got to pilot space ships to a game for griefers. I held on as long as I could to the small amount of PvE that was left in the game until it was gone. And now I'm leaving. I never said it was anyone's fault; I clearly stated the facts. Griefers like to grief, and then blame the victims of their griefing because the victims weren't 100% up to date on the techniques the griefers were currently using based on whatever outside sources some choose to use. I take responsibility for not spending the extra time to surf the internet for out-of-game resources to combat the griefers. I take responsibility and clearly state that a game that treats it's players as if the game is a job is not a game I wish to play anymore, and as a player from the beginning I will correct you in your false assumptions and false perceptios that the game was always this way; it was not. You can't use you deception on me - I was here at the beginning. Try that "it was always this way" bull sht on someone else.


Everything you are describing has been around since 2003. If you bury your head in the sand you may not see it.

I remember back in 2004 it was cruise missle Kessies in Yulai. The 'griefing' as you seem to want to call it has always been a part of Eve, and is not against any rules of the game.

Sorry you're not having fun anymore, but a 10+ year run in any game will do that to someone. However, don't say that this type of behavior is something new that CCP is encouraging. It has been this way since the start.


I'm still loving the 2015 toons telling me how "it has always been"... As a legitimate player since 2004, I've never been a victim or know of victims of "missile kessies". The fact that it doesn't still exist negates your example - if it still existed and I failed to recognize it, then it would fit you example. There "was" and exploit according you you (one that a legitimate player as myself does not recognise) that no longer exists - CCP fixed it. I am talking about an occurrence of CCP officially stating that all is as intended. Phk off twt.


My 2004 character is not active because I came back to Eve after a long break and wanted to re-learn the game because I'm a noob all over with all of the recent changes.

When I started Eve in 2004 (after playing beta and keeping an eye on the game news since 2001) there were people flying Kestrels fitted with standard launchers which at the time held cruise missles. They were suicide ganking haulers in Yulai, which was the Jita of the time.

Point being, that is just one example of how Eve has always had suicide ganking, and a need to be aware of local and your own situation.

I'm sorry if you missed that, but I'm really not surprised as you've clearly had your head in the sand this whole time.

"Phk off twt" indeed, you're a real nice one aren't you?
Throth
Doomheim
#872 - 2015-09-01 17:37:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Throth wrote:
-obviously I don't, since I am choosing not to play anymore, and you're ignoring the fact that it wasn't always this way and attempting to perpetuate the assumption that it was.
But that's just it: it was always like that — if anything, it's far less so now than ever before. The change you're blaming for your decision to leave has gone in the opposite direction of the one you're implying.

Quote:
I clearly said I am taking responsibility for not wanting to research out of game resources on griefer techniques
Why would you do that, when you can just petition them? No research or OOG-resources needed.

Quote:
Again, I'm leaving the game.
…after a decade, when the interactions you complain about should have been obvious to you from day 1.

Britney Fears wrote:
Imagine that you have a pilot with max align skills, mid-grade nomad set, faction inertial stabs in lows, a web alt but you get bumped just once undocking in a HS 1,0 system.
There's little to no reason to ever get bumped on an empire undock ramp.


-Why would I petition them when they have stated that it is working as intended? Hyperdunking is a thing fully endorsed by CCP. Loot it up for yourself.

-Hyperdunking has not been around for 10 years just because i have. Your logic is fail.

I'm not understanding why there are arguments opposed to what I've written. I've clearly stated that I am unhappy with the way the game is, and as such will be leaving the game. There are no idle threats. The fact that the game changes often is evidence that there are changes I might be unhappy with. Anyone arguing is just looking to argue lol, and it's as sad as it is funny. Calm down, I'll be gone soon lol.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#873 - 2015-09-01 17:40:04 UTC
Britney Fears wrote:
Do you recomend instant undock?
Yes, and in that case, not just in empire space.

Throth wrote:
As a legitimate player since 2004, I've never been a victim or know of victims of "missile kessies".
That's pretty much just an admission on your part that you weren't paying attention, or that your memory is very selective. It wasn't an exploit, by the way, nor did Odie suggest that it was — it was an example of what he remembers from the time, same as your misidentified “griefing”. The difference is that, while the kestrels in question are gone, the gameplay you call “griefing” is still around, and then as now, it's not actually griefing (because then, as now, griefing gets you banned).

Also, just because your argument and reliance on heavily edited and rose-coloured memories doesn't hold water does not mean that you should revert to personal abuse…
Estevan Valladares
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#874 - 2015-09-01 17:41:47 UTC
The only thing I am talking about which is the truth is that the game was always that way, it doesnt BECAME what it is, it has always been.

You are the one saying it is not, but anything mentioned here you can look up it will give you a post about it as long as the forum exists.

And your reasoning of implying you know what you say because your character has X birth date is as empty as you make imply that my alt means I cant be from that time. The more you try to argue that your CHAR age means something, the more you imply that you dont know how eve works.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#875 - 2015-09-01 17:42:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Britney Fears wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
You didn't. YOU failed. Not the griefers. They outplayed you and rather than take responsibility like an adult, you throw a 5 year old's "I'm taking my ball and going home" hissy fit.
Arguably, they did exploit, clearly breaking the ruling about reshipping under a criminal timer and CCP OKed it. I can certainly understand why people wouldn't like that decision and choose to protest with their wallets and they should certainly do so. The game rules clearly did change, so saying it's all the same is pretty dumb.


If you do the things you need to do to keep from getting hyperdunked in the 1st place, you don't have to petition anything. What he or anyone else does with his wallet is his choice and no concern of mine, simply saying that the way of thinking these people exhibit is the problem, not the fact that someone else did something (even if they cheated).

Not unlike real life, you can either walk around unaware of your surroundings, get victimized by some criminal who is clearly breaking the law, and then HOPE that criminal gets caught and you get 'reimbursed' (after dealing with myriad lawyers, cops, prosecutors and judges) in some way after waiting months/years....

....OR you can not let yourself be a victim in the 1st place and not have to worry about dealing with any of it.



Easy to talk about a subject knowing little about it. Imagine that you have a pilot with max align skills, mid-grade nomad set, faction inertial stabs in lows, a web alt but you get bumped just once undocking in a HS 1,0 system.


That means "buy jump freighter, laugh at bumpers".

If people used as much time thinking as they did shifting blame, most of the worlds problems would not exist.
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#876 - 2015-09-01 17:42:50 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Jill Xelitras wrote:
You are confusing the buy/sell order mechanic with buying / selling to NPC.

When you buy a skillbook from one of those 365 days offers, you're buying from an NPC at a fixed price (yes, it varies ... but only so small). Your ISK leaves the game.

When you buy an item from a player made sales order, the function of the broker is just to block the item until the sales offer either runs out or to hand you the item and transfer the money into the sellers wallet. While this happens during the absence of the seller, the transaction is still between you, who got the item and the seller, who got the money.

Saying otherwise is like saying that two players do not compete against each other in a round based strategy game, because they can't move their units at the same time ... Roll
No, I'm not. You need to read back.

I'll summarise here.
I was stating that trading, in general is PvP. You buy to and/or from a player. There is no argument there.

To ensure I covered all my bases however, there's a tiny subset of the market which is NPC driven. Look at items like Soil for example. These are sold and bought by NPCs, and the price changes in a station as you buy and sell them. Some people transport and trade these items, which is PvE as no other players are involved. Because the price changes for everyone though, it's competitive PvE as two or more players will push buy prices up and sell prices down for each other as they do it.

Make sense?


Yes that makes sense.

I find it remarkable that you manage to find the smallest fraction of a subset of subsets to prove your point. I wonder how many players trade in soil and how profitable that is. Do they fly industrial ships or freighters ?

So yes indeed: items that can only be bought AND sold to NPCs and have no other use in game are fitting your definition.

I don't remember if buy and sell orders are in different stations ... I would think so. That forces players to undock at some point, if they want to make a profit. In space, you can again interfere with making tht profit.

Trading in those commodities is however so marginal ... picking that was really the last straw, and it's not going to redeem your prior arguments.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Throth
Doomheim
#877 - 2015-09-01 17:42:59 UTC
Odie McCracken wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Throth wrote:
Estevan Valladares wrote:
Yeah, yeah. For the entirety of EVE existance people come with delusions of importance brought from the experience of other games or other deluded people.

And if you really know EVE, you know this was never a solo or casual friendly place, EVER.

But you can try to indulge on self pity as long as you like. People does that all the time.

"Oh, I lost stuff, the game is not what it used to be."
"Oh, they exploded my ship and I did nothing, I gonna quit."
"Oh, they were mean in the chat and ccp didnt do nothing, I gonna quit."

And other some such "everyone has to make me the epic hero in this game every other game does".

There is always one of those around.


To the guys that quote the "entirety of Eve existence" from their toons that thave exitsted since 2015, use a toon that would be able to back that experience up, or STFU. You make my lawls hurt.


What percentage of pre 2005 characters are still under the ownership of their creators?


I still have 3x 2004 characters where I was the original owner. I started this one because I came back to Eve and wanted to relearn and not just jump in with 100mil+ skillpoints.

Edit: none of the accounts are active.



So say you, and convenient for you. For all the 2015 toons, use references if you can't use experience, of you can choose not to post.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#878 - 2015-09-01 17:44:24 UTC
Throth wrote:
Why would I petition them when they have stated that it is working as intended? Hyperdunking is a thing fully endorsed by CCP. Loot it up for yourself.
But I'm not talking about hyperdunking. I'm talking about griefers and their techniques — the stuff you think you need to research, when in reality you can just report them and have them thrown out.

Quote:
Hyperdunking has not been around for 10 years just because i have.
Griefing has — you know, the thing you're complaining about — as have the rules that prohibit it.

Quote:
I'm not understanding why there are arguments opposed to what I've written.
Because what you're written is, in large parts, simply not true, or pure hyperbole.
Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#879 - 2015-09-01 17:45:30 UTC
Throth wrote:
Odie McCracken wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Throth wrote:
Estevan Valladares wrote:
Yeah, yeah. For the entirety of EVE existance people come with delusions of importance brought from the experience of other games or other deluded people.

And if you really know EVE, you know this was never a solo or casual friendly place, EVER.

But you can try to indulge on self pity as long as you like. People does that all the time.

"Oh, I lost stuff, the game is not what it used to be."
"Oh, they exploded my ship and I did nothing, I gonna quit."
"Oh, they were mean in the chat and ccp didnt do nothing, I gonna quit."

And other some such "everyone has to make me the epic hero in this game every other game does".

There is always one of those around.


To the guys that quote the "entirety of Eve existence" from their toons that thave exitsted since 2015, use a toon that would be able to back that experience up, or STFU. You make my lawls hurt.


What percentage of pre 2005 characters are still under the ownership of their creators?


I still have 3x 2004 characters where I was the original owner. I started this one because I came back to Eve and wanted to relearn and not just jump in with 100mil+ skillpoints.

Edit: none of the accounts are active.



So say you, and convenient for you. For all the 2015 toons, use references if you can't use experience, of you can choose not to post.


Yes I do say, and anyone who was also around then can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But I know I'm not Blink
Britney Fears
EVE Corporation 98582134
#880 - 2015-09-01 17:46:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Britney Fears
Tippia wrote:
Britney Fears wrote:
Do you recomend instant undock?
Yes, and in that case, not just in empire space.




You clearly know verry little edit (on the subject of hyperdunking tactics)