EVE General Discussion

Then how do you prove that you have won?

Then you slap the other guy and tell him to do it properly.

Again, repeating the question does not change the answer.

I suppose that's why you won't provide the definitions: because the remains that you simply can't.

You can shrug your shoulders and stick with the ill-fitting model or you can look at the game clear-eyed and come up with one that fits. I'm always in favor of the latter. (And no, I'm not flogging my own blog.)



And that's a real, serious problem, because how many people come here assured that "EVE is all PVP all the time" and imagine some sort of endless, giant, immediately accessible battle in space? If anything, it's even more destructively wrong than the "I just want to PVE" mindset, because at least you can show people operating under that assumption that EVE isn't a PVE game. The guy who was seriously bent out of shape about how the loot from the wrecks of his dueling victims wasn't his by right, because he'd earned it in combat? He was much harder to bring around, because what he expected was PVP by any sane definition. It just wasn't EVE.

1) His position has been explored, explained and annihilated.

2) On your part, show me one legitimate and accepted definition of "competetive pve" as sourced from a reputable site online.

3) When I interact with the same rock as you, I am interacting with you also, in competition.
By example, if I interact with the same football as you in a match, I am interacting with you also, by means of competition for the football. Thinking otherwise is worrisomely autistic.

4) As shown by Tippia, dynamic NPC pricing is a result of player manipulation, and hence inherently PvP insofar as it affects other players. Also, as in my example, trading is pvp in all the same ways as mining is pvp.

5) There is no relevant difference between interacting with people to compete with them, or in interacting with the environment to compete with them. Both constitute PvP. For example, Sov is an environment element. People interact with the Sov environment and mechanics, inorder to compete with other players, and again, ultimately translating as PvP. Its not the environment youncompete against, it is the other players who want it also. Asnit involves other players againstnyou, its inherently and completely PvP.

6) Yes, its arguable whether PvE actually exists at all in EVE, except as incidental and superficial. Though players can engage in PvE, the game itself, as an environment, is inherently PvP. PvP is the competetive element. "Competetive PvE" is a misnomer and fallacy that makes no sense. Its either PvE, or PvP.

7) Warm and cool are not buzz words. They are terms that define temperature between hot and cold, on a linear temperature spectrum.

I quit because there is nothing left for me as a casual gamer. I'm tired of the expectations that I have too keep up with every exploit and change or else I'm deserving of griefing. It's another version of victim blaming, only in a virtual world.

Sorry, but I could declare your opinion as just as irrelevant. Let's best not go there. Either you take part in a discussion and accept that people have opinions or you are just at risk of trolling others.

Now we already accept that while EVE is a PvP game do we recognize fractions of it as PvE. In no other way am I saying that some of it can be classed as competitive PvE. We are not making generalizations here, but we are make distinctions. Will you let us have this discussion or do you insist that what we do here is irrelevant?

Nope, nope, and nope. In that order. That's just some nonsensical strawman you've come up with since you've, as always, not been able to cobble together anything even remotely resembling a coherent argument.

Those are all your opinions, not mine, and they do not follow from anything I've said.

Here's a bit of logic that you should probably pick up for future reference:
If you ask a question and I say “no”, the answer is ‘no”. If you repeat the question just because you didn't want the answer to be “no”, that does not change the answer to “yes” — the answer is still “no”, only with the addendum “…and you already know this, so stop embarrassing yourself.”

Assuming that I was a freighter pilot (I'm not): My proof might be a long history of completed courier contracts. If I only hauled for myself, it would be exactly one freighter purchase in my wallet transaction history and everything where I wanted it, when I wanted it; or maybe, a long list of successful sales from arbitrage in my wallet history.

If you mean externally documented proof, meh. Killmails are incidentals: there are kills that don't show up on any killmail, killmails that don't show critical information (logistics ships), or which provide a woefully wrong impression of the encounter, and killmails that have been forged to "prove" kills that never happened.

Not to mention that when you win by evading direct encounters, it's completely unreasonable to expect the game to figure out that you have. Killmails don't record victories, they record a specific result of direct and unambiguous interactions between players, because that's the sort of task that a computer can easily do.

None of which changes the underlying PVP nature of the game and every interaction we have with the game. Which is the point of this no inane discussion. For some reason, some people calling a thing what it is (such as calling EVE a pvp game because everything you do pits you against others, intentionally or unintentionally) is hard to do.

It doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me, I'm a pve player, I'm playing a pvp focused game, the PVE I do has PVP consequences. The fact that I generally only do 'ship combat' pvp to defend my PVE space doesn't change the underlying fact of EVE being a pvp game. Hell, if EVE wasn't a PVP game, it's PVE would be utterly boring as far as I'm concerned, but that's just me.


On a side note , I think seeing people's inclination towards narrow definitions is enlightening. It suggests a general narrow mindedness in certain poster's view.

And thus.... the conversation has degraded into monkey flinging poo.

Our markets are Indirect PvP. I do something, it affects you directly. If I put something lower on market, you do not get sales. I put something higher on buy order, you cannot get items.

A person can directly manipulate prices to their own end. One person's tactics affects every other player. There is absolutely nothing in the game that is environment to make it PvE. There are scams, deals, trading in different hubs to get more items at a cheaper price than the other guy. That is return is then back into market. If I am richer, I can put you right under.

Lets go with something simple like ship hulls. Everybody needs em. I trade em and I don't want you to. I am rich so I drive the prices so low, you are taking a loss. You stop dealing in said ship hulls. Now I have the supply since nobody else is buying or making. Suddenly, I spike prices for my area. People need that hull so will pay the nose. I won PvP cause I forced you to stop playing that part of the market. How is it PvE? Where is the E?????

The bit with brokers and it leaving your hangar is mechanics only. It is like saying somebody isn't a carpenter because they are using a modern lathe for wood working! The mechanics are tools. PvP isnt PvP since there is little people in your ships actually aiming your turrets...

Competitive PvE is when one person's action is not directly affecting eachother. If both were mining in some belt where they had their own protected rocks, then it would be correct. There is competition, but each person is still running independently.

My corp many moons ago used to competitive mine. We would warp in with our fleet to a belt, and take the rocks we wanted, right out from another player. We as players, caused effect on another player through competion, hence we were player competing against a player. The environment was just a tool, no different than a track in a racing game or a base in an FPS. Mining = capture the flag.

Hrm... Dust514 must be pve. It is people trying to get objectives.