EVE General Discussion

Your definition of Competetive PvE, and the example from EVE, are contradictory.
Your definition of Competetive PvE also oversteps your definition of PvP, as it includes interacting with players in competition.

Competition for rocks/anoms in EVE is not indirect.
It is direct.

The finite amount of these resources, means all players are in direct competition and interaction against each other, in the same environment, so as to exploit them, which falls under PvP.

If I arrive at the same rock or anomaly, I am competing with you, not the NPC environment.
You are a player, I am a player, and we are directly interacting in competition (PvP).

In WoW, if you and I both spot an ore vein, and rush for it, we are in PvP.
It is the not the environment, or any NPC element we are competing against, it is each other.

The thread (derailed as it is) has been attempting to define this new fangled buzz word "Competetive PvE" concept.
A google search of "definition Competetive PvE", is so lean, that this thread itself already stands as the 4th hit.

The fallacy in how some people are misconstruing "Competetive PvE", is that it specifically does not include direct interaction between players in competition (which in all cases is categorically PvP), but instead is instanced so that there is no player vs player competetive interaction. An example of "competetive PvE", is two players taking turns on a Space Invaders arcade machine, and comparing their scores, competetively, without ever having interacted ingame. Another example would be two separate and non-interactive WoW instance groups, that compare duration of completion and efficiency.

So basically, "EVE is dying™" trend all over again.

Let us try a different approach: Is there any proof you could show me that your losses are real, not speculative and have been afflicted to you by another player? Do you have a killmail for any of your market losses?

Webster 100
Whitehound 0

Sorry bro, you lost

Forum Posters hit Whitehound with a Critical Thinking Wrecking Shot for 5456321218798712315489651321.7 damage!

Let it die, you are digging a hole of stupidity from which you will never crawl out.

The closest EVE related activity I can think of, that would fit the constraints of "competetive PvE" as sandwiched between PvP and PvE, is players comparing ish/hr figures or killboards.

To do that, I have to liberally extend the definition (for the benefit of the discussion) to include players as part of the E in PvE, rather than just NPCs, as players are an integral part of that environment.

But.

In reciprocation, and with the same levity allowed to the counterargument, even comparing isk/hr and killboards, constitutes PvP in and of itself, as two players competing against each other over whos result is better.

So the concept of "competetive pve" really struggles to justify itself ingame as a real thing between the already established and justified constraints and limits of PvP and PvE.

PvP: Players(!) interacting in competition against each others interests.
PvE: Player(s) competing against NPC/AI elements.
=
Competetive PvE: Player(s) competing against NPC/AI elements (PvE), without interacting with another player against each others interests (which would be PvP).

As you can see, Competetive PvE, is actually still just plain old PvE.

So Competetive PvE is an abstract that doesnt actually exist ingame, except as an expression of comparing PvE results between players, that categorically did not include interacting with competetive players (or else it would be PvP).

Again, how people categorise is what makes the definitions blurry. When you are mining a rock that someone else is mining, you are not directly interacting with them. If you bump them off the rock, you are. That's what splits it out from PvP.

That's competitive PvE. You are both doing PvE and you are competing with it.

But that's not competitive PvE from the point of view of the game, that's simply playing a game and comparing your results externally to the game.

Edit: Oh, and by the way, it doesn't surprise me that searching for a misspelling of competitive pve brings you to this thread which is full of said misspelling.

Except of course that it's not. You simply want to move everything into 2 categories instead of 3. It's like defining continents. There's loads of different models and none are inherently wrong, it's all just about where the lines are drawn. Yes, everything that is competitive PvE could be categorised into one or the other groups, just like Europe and Asia could be grouped into Eurasia, but there's clear differences between them.

No, you're interacting with a rock. You're competing with me, but interacting with the rock. Yes, you can categorise it into PvP or into PvE if you wish, but when looking at the 3 definitions it's competitive PvE.

Trading is primarily a PvP activity as you buy from or sell to players. There's a small subset of exceptions where you can buy and sell to NPC orders, which become competitive PvE as their prices change as other people trade with them (why these still exist I do not know).

We are both doing PvE, and competing while doing it. We are both interacting with the environment, not with each other.

Yes it does, as above. The label "competitive PvE" just helps further describe the type of content beyond the definitions of PvE and PvP.

Lucas=Whitehound.

What a surprise.

Incorrect. And I'm pretty sure that falsely claiming that someone is someone else falls under impersonation.

That said, I accept your concession of defeat.

Your views are the same as his.
Read the thread and you how your, and his, positions have been annihilated already.
Ascribing to his views is an automatic concession of defeat.

If Im mining the same rock as you, Im in direct competition and interaction against you (as per your own definition of PvP).
The resource is finite. Either you, or I, get it, as a result of competition.

Its PvP with mining lasers.
That the rock itself is a non-player element, is not relevant.
Fact is we are engaged in competition over it, player versus player,

If Im buying/selling the same commodities off the market, Im in direct competition and interaction against you (as per your own definition of PvP).
The resource is finite. Either you, or I, get it, as a result of competition.

Its PvP with buy/sell orders.
That the item itself is a non-player element, is not relevant.
Fact is we are engaged in competition over it, player versus player.

PvP: Players(!) interacting in competition against each others interests.
PvE: Player(s) competing against NPC/AI elements.
=
Competetive PvE: Player(s) competing against NPC/AI elements (PvE), without interacting with another player against each others interests (which would be PvP).

As you can see, Competetive PvE, is actually still just plain old PvE.

Competetive PvE, as a concept, doesnt exist within EVE (or arguably, anywhere, except when people try to label a banana as a boomerang, just cos they want to, regardless of whether it makes sense or not. Try throwing a banana. It wont act as a boomerang, no matter how much you call it that, or think it superficiallyblooks like one.).

This is even more the case in EVE, than in other games, because we all exist in one single environment (no instancing), and are all affected directly by the actions of other players, in all aspects of the game, no matter how near or far we are to them.