These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#661 - 2015-08-31 17:57:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Aaron wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Aaron wrote:
I remember when CCP wanted to help Africa with PLEX.

The forum that CCP made to appeal to the Eve players for help turned very ugly, I was very dissapointed in the community, generally most of the player base said stuff like "**** them they can die" . You know where my convo is going and I can dig up the thread if you don't believe me. CCP were great for trying to help and I respected that.

Mods, feel free to censor me if my talk is too real for you. I have no problem with that, this is Eve online after all.

Some of you player base are nasty and you have affected the game, Man up and deal.
I don't remember that thread, but given the fact that most of the financial aid that goes to Africa normally ends up in the pocket of a despot, people refusing to help further line their pockets doesn't surprise me. I seriously doubt that many said "**** 'em let them die" though.

What I do remember is that PLEX4Good has generally been a success when the funds raised actually goes to those in need, and not to corrupt officials that spend it on hookers and blow. In addition Eve players are not adverse to raising funds for the families of those that are no longer with us, or for players that have a need for specialised and expensive medical/mobility equipment that allow them to lead normalish lives.

We're not nasty people, we're realistic people.

Speaking of manning up and dealing with it, you should try doing so yourself where Eve is concerned.


Yes I agree plex for good has done great things and has raised lots of money for good causes. I'm not saying all the players have a nasty attitude, I said Some players do. I will find the thread and show you the nasty comments SOME of the players made.
I have no doubt that some players are nasty, the same type of person can be found in every walk of life, and in every game. Eve does not have a monopoly on nastiness.

In game and on the forums I can be a nasty bastard, I admit it; however I'll bend over backwards to help people, including those that I'm nasty to in game, if they have a genuine need of my help.

Knowing where to draw the line and and context is everything.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#662 - 2015-08-31 18:03:20 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I have no doubt that some players are nasty, the same type of person can be found in every walk of life, and in every game. Eve does not have a monopoly on nastiness.

In game and on the forums I can be a nasty bastard, I admit it; however I'll bend over backwards to help people, including those that I'm nasty to in game, if they have a genuine need of my help.

Knowing where to draw the line and and context is everything.


This...

You will have your share of 13 year old trolls in any game, but I think there are far less in EVE than other places.

In game? It's a different story. I ganked the same 10 day old newbie twice in the last week. He was cool, we talked and he listened when I gave advice, so I sent him isk to cover his losses plus a dozen or so new ships. If he would have raged at me, he would have gotten zero isk. Does that make me an a**hole?

To some people, apparently that answer is yes.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#663 - 2015-08-31 18:05:44 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Aaron wrote:
I remember when CCP wanted to help Africa with PLEX.

The forum that CCP made to appeal to the Eve players for help turned very ugly, I was very dissapointed in the community, generally most of the player base said stuff like "**** them they can die" . You know where my convo is going and I can dig up the thread if you don't believe me. CCP were great for trying to help and I respected that.

Mods, feel free to censor me if my talk is too real for you. I have no problem with that, this is Eve online after all.

Some of you player base are nasty and you have affected the game, Man up and deal.
I don't remember that thread, but given the fact that most of the financial aid that goes to Africa normally ends up in the pocket of a despot, people refusing to help further line their pockets doesn't surprise me. I seriously doubt that many said "**** 'em let them die" though.

What I do remember is that PLEX4Good has generally been a success when the funds raised actually goes to those in need, and not to corrupt officials that spend it on hookers and blow. In addition Eve players are not adverse to raising funds for the families of those that are no longer with us, or for players that have a need for specialised and expensive medical/mobility equipment that allow them to lead normalish lives.

We're not nasty people, we're realistic people.

Speaking of manning up and dealing with it, you should try doing so yourself where Eve is concerned.


Yes I agree plex for good has done great things and has raised lots of money for good causes. I'm not saying all the players have a nasty attitude, I said Some players do. I will find the thread and show you the nasty comments SOME of the players made.
I have no doubt that some players are nasty, the same type of person can be found in every walk of life, and in every game. Eve does not have a monopoly on nastiness.

In game and on the forums I can be a nasty bastard, I admit it; however I'll bend over backwards to help people, including those that I'm nasty to in game, if they have a genuine need of my help.

Knowing where to draw the line and and context is everything.


http://eve-search.com/thread/1490384-0/page/1


Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#664 - 2015-08-31 18:11:56 UTC
Aaron wrote:
http://eve-search.com/thread/1490384-0/page/1


Remember that whole "context" thing?

Someone saying "hey, it would be cool to think about africa" will not be taken seriously (ie, that thread).

Someone linking a charity/program set up to convert plex into donations, with an explanation of HOW to actually help will be taken seriously.

This seems obvious to me...
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#665 - 2015-08-31 18:15:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus Reese
Cidanel Afuran wrote:


This...

You will have your share of 13 year old trolls in any game, but I think there are far less in EVE than other places.

In game? It's a different story. I ganked the same 10 day old newbie twice in the last week. He was cool, we talked and he listened when I gave advice, so I sent him isk to cover his losses plus a dozen or so new ships. If he would have raged at me, he would have gotten zero isk. Does that make me an a**hole?

To some people, apparently that answer is yes.


It depends. How did you approach it. If they were chatting and raging, did you go, woah woah, is a game and explain the hows and why? Or did you just go, nom nom delicious tears.

Years back, I had been mucking around and got a newb concorded. He was mad! Like brand new to eve. I didn't give him isk, I just explained eve.

That player after a bit of banter back and forth? Playing eve years later still. Had I trolled, probably would have left that day.


That is difference. Eve is made of two parts. There is the game, and then there is the social networking side. The game is the pew pew and ganks. The social side are those little things called chat channels. When you are trolling or being a jerk on em, you are one person being a complete a-hole to another. Doesn't matter what little picture and name is beside the text. Gotta know when to draw the line. Two forces who know each other, troll away. But if somebody is literally in rage, cool em down. Doesn't mean you have changed your play, but now it is back to being a game for em. Might still quit, or maybe they play better.

Best yet, they now have increased interest in eve...

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#666 - 2015-08-31 18:17:28 UTC
Malt Zedong wrote:
q

THAT is what I was talking about. I remember PLEX for good for that stuff in Japan, and the one for Maldives or somewhere southeast asia, but Africa I dont really remember.

What I remember is a thread risen after PLEX for good from a player saying she wanted CCP to donate money for africa because in iceland is full of white people.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1450306#post1450306


Dude, that is a troll post. Reread the title ... it doesn't say Africa, it says "african americans". That's not exactly the same thing.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#667 - 2015-08-31 18:19:16 UTC
Sorry but only someone from a certain culture may think he is not an asshat for destroying someone first to give advice and money afterwards.

I dont care about not being nice, but you claiming to be nice by doing paid douchebaggery is funny.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#668 - 2015-08-31 18:20:28 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:

Best week (in early 2013) 36K



Sunday August 30 2015

34509 Ppl logged in...

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#669 - 2015-08-31 18:22:02 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
It depends. How did you approach it. If they were chatting and raging, did you go, woah woah, is a game and explain the hows and why? Or did you just go, nom nom delicious tears.

Years back, I had been mucking around and got a newb concorded. He was mad! Like brand new to eve. I didn't give him isk, I just explained eve.

That player after a bit of banter back and forth? Playing eve years later still. Had I trolled, probably would have left that day.


That is difference. Eve is made of two parts. There is the game, and then there is the social networking side. The game is the pew pew and ganks. The social side are those little things called chat channels. When you are trolling or being a jerk on em, you are one person being a complete a-hole to another. Doesn't matter what little picture and name is beside the text. Gotta know when to draw the line. Two forces who know each other, troll away. But if somebody is literally in rage, cool em down. Doesn't mean you have changed your play, but now it is back to being a game for em. Might still quit, or maybe they play better.

Best yet, they now have increased interest in eve...


I don't troll, and don't do suicide ganking. I generally try to explain how things work. If someone refuses to even accept a convo invite and also sends me hate mail? I won't lose sleep about them not learning the game.

If it takes them 10 minutes to calm down after being upset at losing their ship before they listen/take advice? That's 100% understandable.
Whitehound
#670 - 2015-08-31 18:24:53 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Cidanel Afuran wrote:


This...

You will have your share of 13 year old trolls in any game, but I think there are far less in EVE than other places.

In game? It's a different story. I ganked the same 10 day old newbie twice in the last week. He was cool, we talked and he listened when I gave advice, so I sent him isk to cover his losses plus a dozen or so new ships. If he would have raged at me, he would have gotten zero isk. Does that make me an a**hole?

To some people, apparently that answer is yes.


It depends. How did you approach it. If they were chatting and raging, did you go, woah woah, is a game and explain the hows and why? Or did you just go, nom nom delicious tears.

Years back, I had been mucking around and got a newb concorded. He was mad! Like brand new to eve. I didn't give him isk, I just explained eve.

That player after a bit of banter back and forth? Playing eve years later still. Had I trolled, probably would have left that day.


That is difference. Eve is made of two parts. There is the game, and then there is the social networking side. The game is the pew pew and ganks. The social side are those little things called chat channels. When you are trolling or being a jerk on em, you are one person being a complete a-hole to another. Doesn't matter what little picture and name is beside the text. Gotta know when to draw the line. Two forces who know each other, troll away. But if somebody is literally in rage, cool em down. Doesn't mean you have changed your play, but now it is back to being a game for em. Might still quit, or maybe they play better.

Best yet, they now have increased interest in eve...

Honestly, after years of EVE and excursion into other games is the rant, the smack talk and even the spam in local still more enjoyable than all the chatter in most other games. The nasty contributions a 14-year old EVE player can make to a conversation still strike me as more mature than those in other games. At least here in EVE does one know they got all their gender preferences right whereas in other games I am never quite sure.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#671 - 2015-08-31 18:29:18 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
[quote=Markus Reese][quote=Cidanel Afuran]

Honestly, after years of EVE and excursion into other games is the rant, the smack talk and even the spam in local still more enjoyable than all the chatter in most other games. The nasty contributions a 14-year old EVE player can make to a conversation still strike me as more mature than those in other games. At least here in EVE does one know they got all their gender preferences right whereas in other games I am never quite sure.


There is a difference between smack talk and making things personal. Hell, I smack talk and troll people in eve, but do it from the perspective of one gamer talking to another. It is when people start making stuff heavy duty personal, that is where I draw the line. Downgrading a person's entire nationality/gender/whatever over a game? That isn't smack talk.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#672 - 2015-08-31 18:33:54 UTC
Aaron wrote:
http://eve-search.com/thread/1490384-0/page/1
TBH there's a lot of valid concerns raised in that thread, some African nations have become so dependent on aid from abroad that they have no incentive to get their own houses in order, especially with regards to birth control and agriculture.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#673 - 2015-08-31 18:51:21 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Aaron wrote:
http://eve-search.com/thread/1490384-0/page/1
TBH there's a lot of valid concerns raised in that thread, some African nations have become so dependent on aid from abroad that they have no incentive to get their own houses in order, especially with regards to birth control and agriculture.



Yup. One clan leader I knew from Ethiopia, in his visit here was saying that people send money there, and just that. They end up contributing to the maintenance of things as they are and not to change, because money is money, it does not change anything as the problem is the hands deciding what to do with it.

Much like some people in EVE, who want this to be of their liking as they imply that what they like is how the game should be.

humans are humans, wherever they go.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#674 - 2015-08-31 18:57:26 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:


I don't troll, and don't do suicide ganking. I generally try to explain how things work. If someone refuses to even accept a convo invite and also sends me hate mail? I won't lose sleep about them not learning the game.

If it takes them 10 minutes to calm down after being upset at losing their ship before they listen/take advice? That's 100% understandable.


I am a little similar. I have done freighter ganking ops in days gone past (one had a horrendous pile of plex). But never suicided new players in new player areas. The concord incident was actually caused by snowball launchers. Player had just undocked the first time. I was randomly snowballing people at new years eve time. He saw lock, panic and shot me. He was mad and legitimately thought I killed him. How does it relate? He was mad, I could have trolled and been off. Even if I had shot him, I would have explained. Still would have been more mad, but knowing the guy now, probably would have thought it was badass in how it worked.

And that is the awesome part of eve. It is harsh, it is not for everybody, but when they are new, they don't know that. Many players will accept and look for a difficult and harsh game. But if the gaming community is a bunch of expletives, then why would they want to play and learn eh? LoL is a great example of this and their tribunal. Toxic trolling and such kills gameplay. I will admit, in LoL I did lots of bot fights. I enjoyed em. But the player base, if it was left unchecked would have had me leaving it in short order and not spend money on it. In pvp, we troll, but we also do it in good sportsmanship.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#675 - 2015-08-31 19:12:34 UTC
In most cases learn to play eve means playing the way people want you to.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
Aquilan Aideron
Wardecs go here
#676 - 2015-08-31 19:30:11 UTC
Hi,

all the doors upstairs are bolted and some overly obese people are crashing the parties floor 1 and up.

So, why are there so few players?
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#677 - 2015-08-31 19:47:12 UTC
Malt Zedong wrote:
In most cases learn to play eve means playing the way people want you to.


Can you extrapolate on that? It is a common thing. Is it you are being forced to play their way, or is your way just not playable. It is like if you like american football and go over to UK and try forcing Manchester to play the Dallas Cowboys. Both are called football so how to can each play? Do you force one or the other to play by their rules or do both adapt to counter how each other plays? One would say (And I agree) that if you chose to come and enter the field and issue the challenge, you play by house rules.

Eve has those house rules. CCP stands by them. We can explain the rules but if they chose to come, why should it be changed without valid reasoning?

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#678 - 2015-08-31 20:04:17 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Malt Zedong wrote:
In most cases learn to play eve means playing the way people want you to.


Can you extrapolate on that? It is a common thing. Is it you are being forced to play their way, or is your way just not playable. It is like if you like american football and go over to UK and try forcing Manchester to play the Dallas Cowboys. Both are called football so how to can each play? Do you force one or the other to play by their rules or do both adapt to counter how each other plays? One would say (And I agree) that if you chose to come and enter the field and issue the challenge, you play by house rules.

Eve has those house rules. CCP stands by them. We can explain the rules but if they chose to come, why should it be changed without valid reasoning?


You see the issue ?
Rules are one thing. Playstyle another. Activities you do ingame another.

But yeah, it is exactly that. It is like an american going to the UK and saying Manchester is not a football team because "soccer" is not football, and better analogy yet when you consider that english football (misnomered soccer) is the original form of football.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#679 - 2015-08-31 20:14:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus Reese
That is the most interesting part about that misnomer. People think the two are related when in fact American football evolved from rugby and has no relation at all to European football (soccer).

Like eve, people come expecting one thing, we have another. But both want to play. so assuredly there is some common ground that makes it better for both. Rough US players are like the light hearted pvpers. Beat eachother up, go out and "gank". EU football is like the serious gamer. Strict on rules, but very cautious play. If both want to play, find some common ground. Rugby.

Edit:

Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Rugby evolved from Football (Soccer). Webb Ellis.


Idea

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#680 - 2015-08-31 20:23:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Malt Zedong
Markus Reese wrote:
That is the most interesting part about that misnomer. People think the two are related when in fact American football evolved from rugby and has no relation at all to European football (soccer).

Like eve, people come expecting one thing, we have another. But both want to play. so assuredly there is some common ground that makes it better for both. Rough US players are like the light hearted pvpers. Beat eachother up, go out and "gank". EU football is like the serious gamer. Strict on rules, but very cautious play. If both want to play, find some common ground. Rugby.


Yeah, the problem is the common ground is not usually achieved because the so called light hearted pvpers get upset when they are treated like offenders and hunted down and mercilesly killed by people who consider their losses ofenses and call on a dozen friends to beat the ship up of one lone light hearted pvper. Proof of that are the 4 threads currently trending about people upset we foreigners dont know to fight fair.

Edit: I just saw how odd it is to someone from US call us foreigners when the game is actually from a Iceland corp and hosted in the UK. But whatever, they said that at one point.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.