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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#321 - 2015-08-28 04:54:25 UTC  |  Edited by: IbanezLaney
What I have noticed is most of the people who played eve when I started still play eve.

The big difference is they don't have as many alts.

Almost all of them (Myself included) now don't bother subbing extra alt accounts that were previously used for cyno toons.
The jump changes made keeping them useless.

As many of them were subbed for a year at a time - Those yearly subs have been running out over the last few months with no reason to resub them.

This is contributing a lot to the lower amount of characters logged in/subscriptions.


The decline will continue when boosts go ongrid. Thousands more accounts will be unsubbed at that time.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#322 - 2015-08-28 05:02:04 UTC
Meh, I don't know what the big deal is. All things end. EvE will end someday too. When it does, I'll consider the time and money well-spent. Personally, I'll keep playing until they shut down the servers. I've met a lot of great people here and made some good real-life friendships. The game changes, sometimes in ways I like, sometimes in ways I don't. So it goes. I enjoy it for what it is and don't worry too much about it.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
ArmyOfMe
Teddybears.
#323 - 2015-08-28 06:11:46 UTC
Spookay wrote:


Major null alliances are dying. The meta is broken. Big fights are dying. Major wars are a thing of the past.

CCP broke nullsec... and **** playing in lowsec or highsec.

Tbh, players broke nullsec with their massive blue donut, dont blame ccp for that.
Stop with the nap fest and the big battles might happen again.

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#324 - 2015-08-28 06:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
So, while you are at the bar getting one under, I will be talking with the people who don't have a one track vision of the demise of this game.

lol EVE is Dying™

yeah uh-huh, it only counts if you like the changes, whether or not others do, otherwise it doesn't count.
Anyway, like I've shown, EVE isn't in some demise, only evolving. EVE has been dying for over 10yrs now Roll



If your idea of dying is tripling its user base... then yeah sure.

Now, in the last two years, yes it has been dying.

But basically, since you appear to be completely giving up the argument you were so obviously wrong on, I must point out. *snip* Personal insults not necessary. ~ ISD Decoy

Anyone can look at the graphs, the data, and see there is a problem. If you can't, then it must be because you can't understand math.

Oh went over your head. I mean the EVE is Dying™ has been said for 10yrs (or it's demise etc etc). It's one of the most worn out cries for a lot of years, and while EVE if obviously still here. It's always on it's last keg er leg, though kegs are nice too *hic*, ready to fall, so OMG CHANGE THINGS NAOW sort of stuff.

PCU is only down because multi-boxing is down while account multi character training is up. But people don't want to admit that, it interferes with OMG CHANGE THINGS NAOW!!

thx Decoy, whatever he squaked.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#325 - 2015-08-28 06:29:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
My general impressions about the game now. from perspective of an explorer that tried everything but heard and read only about POS operation and Nullsec wars.

Missioner: same old ****, over and over again, no procedural missions. You have to be human bot to run them.
Mining: CODE will rip you a new one, a new ones, over and over again.
Hauling: beware of gankers. Be paranoid.
Industrialist: when starting, forget about that, you will not make a dime on those tech 1 ships. Try training for one year and hope somewhere someone have stopped production of anything to find your niche.
Market trader: the best idea to make ISK if you have severe Autism and dont mind a lot of numbers, you like numbers.
Low sec explorer: Hide and seek who's coming, scavenge deadspace modules while no one is in the system. If somebody comes, push directional scan every second. Be paranoid.
FW member: LP! Make some more.

Impressions on things I dont really know from a first hand.
PvPer: You will always find some noob to kill. Bring alt to be competitive in solo fights.
Wormholer: occasionally you will have to leave POS, BEWARE, push that directional scan some more, there are cloakers everywhere.
Null sec dweller: adapt or die, or just die.
CODE member: post on forum about how awesome you are, gank like a pro, be proud because you care about High sec by blowing up everyone lower in food chain than you. Worship space Hitler.


General inpression: a house full of fruitcakes.

If you dont mind fruitcakes and occasional heart breaking loss of freighter, Tech3, your belowed Faction fit marauder, you will be ok.

Put on your rhino hide and horned helmet and have fun.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#326 - 2015-08-28 06:31:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Foxstar Damaskeenus
why did i join this corp
Not Purple Shoot It.
#327 - 2015-08-28 06:49:24 UTC
I have a few good suggestions. First off though I have to say one reason I haven't played eve too much lately is that it is too good of a game in some aspects. I log on to Warthunder occasionally and shoot down some Germans in my Spitfire for an hour and call it a night. Eve online requires some commitment to truly enjoy. Unfortunately I just don't desire to put in that much time.

Secondly, part of Eve's brilliance is that the players create the great content. That being said I have logged on many times in different alliances sitting behind my screen waiting with tons of other people for someone to make fun. The only time, myself I ever was able to lead fleets was when I was moving and didn't have to work a few months. After telling people what to do all day at my job without pissing them off I'm simply mentally incapable of leading a fleet.

So here's my take.

1. Create things in the universe that are worth fighting for. There should be new and fun PVE in highsec but people need to yearn to go to null to mine, etc.

2. On the leadership thing, could Eve implement some sort of matchmaking system where leaders can find followers for a few hours to roam or play with.

3. When the "this is eve" thing came out with player comms in the videos it seemed to fire many people up and get some new recruits. So marketing marketing marketing. In our aviation charter business we have plenty of regular customers that fly on our planes, probably enough to sustain us for a few years but we never stop working tirelessly to get people interested, even cable companies advertise and in many areas of the USA you don't have options if you want TV/internet, yet they still market.

4. If the blue donut or whatever is hurting content than have a few CCP employees log in to ships and go destroy something player owned or controlled. Make an event or whatever.

"[this thread] is a cesspit of trolling and flaming" ISD Buldath
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#328 - 2015-08-28 06:50:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Webvan wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
So, while you are at the bar getting one under, I will be talking with the people who don't have a one track vision of the demise of this game.

lol EVE is Dying™

yeah uh-huh, it only counts if you like the changes, whether or not others do, otherwise it doesn't count.
Anyway, like I've shown, EVE isn't in some demise, only evolving. EVE has been dying for over 10yrs now Roll



If your idea of dying is tripling its user base... then yeah sure.

Now, in the last two years, yes it has been dying.

But basically, since you appear to be completely giving up the argument you were so obviously wrong on, I must point out. *snip* Personal insults not necessary. ~ ISD Decoy

Anyone can look at the graphs, the data, and see there is a problem. If you can't, then it must be because you can't understand math.

Oh went over your head. I mean the EVE is Dying™ has been said for 10yrs (or it's demise etc etc). It's one of the most worn out cries for a lot of years, and while EVE if obviously still here. It's always on it's last keg, ready to fall, so OMG CHANGE THINGS NAOW sort of stuff.

PCU is only down because multi-boxing is down while account multi character training is up. But people don't want to admit that, it interferes with OMG CHANGE THINGS NAOW!!

thx Decoy, whatever he squaked.


As I've said a few times, training alts doesn't impacts PCU. Log in, snap is taken, log out, that minimal +1 peak is gone before having a chance to impact the PCU average because the session lenght is minimal. If queue alts are logged in 1% of the session length of a char actually being used for play, then their compounded weight in PCU would be 1% if there was 1 queue alt per 1 char used to play. Nobody would notice that they're missing.

That leaves us with multiboxers, on which my own experience is that they're back with a vengence, at least ice fleeters. At my home system, a specially infamous multiboxer moved from 12 Skiffs in december, to 8 after the broadcast change, to 14 now.

And then of course, there's the little issue that we're talking about 30% less PCU since the Incarna heydays. According to white knihgters, those chars did NOTHING in game and so we shouldn't have noticed them leaving...

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#329 - 2015-08-28 07:15:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jill Xelitras
Foxstar Damaskeenus wrote:
I have a few good suggestions. First off though I have to say one reason I haven't played eve too much lately is that it is too good of a game in some aspects. I log on to Warthunder occasionally and shoot down some Germans in my Spitfire for an hour and call it a night. Eve online requires some commitment to truly enjoy. Unfortunately I just don't desire to put in that much time.

Secondly, part of Eve's brilliance is that the players create the great content. That being said I have logged on many times in different alliances sitting behind my screen waiting with tons of other people for someone to make fun. The only time, myself I ever was able to lead fleets was when I was moving and didn't have to work a few months. After telling people what to do all day at my job without pissing them off I'm simply mentally incapable of leading a fleet.

So here's my take.

1. Create things in the universe that are worth fighting for. There should be new and fun PVE in highsec but people need to yearn to go to null to mine, etc.

2. On the leadership thing, could Eve implement some sort of matchmaking system where leaders can find followers for a few hours to roam or play with.

3. When the "this is eve" thing came out with player comms in the videos it seemed to fire many people up and get some new recruits. So marketing marketing marketing. In our aviation charter business we have plenty of regular customers that fly on our planes, probably enough to sustain us for a few years but we never stop working tirelessly to get people interested, even cable companies advertise and in many areas of the USA you don't have options if you want TV/internet, yet they still market.

4. If the blue donut or whatever is hurting content than have a few CCP employees log in to ships and go destroy something player owned or controlled. Make an event or whatever.



Regarding your suggestions:

4. What good is a sandbox without sand ? CCP needs to stay neutral toward players.

3. I agree, but I think that CCP is budgeting to market Gunjack, Valkyrie and possibly Legion.

2. You can create an open fleet ... it's called fleetfinder .... or did CCP remove that while I was not looking Bear

1. They just did add Drifter Incursions. Concerning mining in 0.0 ... for that miners just need to join a nullsec alliance with a mining branch. Those who stay in highsec, don't want to leave and that's fine. High-sec is just overly profitable when you compare the risk vs reward from various places. IMO PI should never have been allowed in high-sec systems. Low-sec needs a buff. Yeah FW is not all of low-sec.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#330 - 2015-08-28 07:15:41 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

As I've said a few times, training alts doesn't impacts PCU. Log in, snap is taken, log out, that minimal +1 peak is gone before having a chance to impact the PCU average because the session lenght is minimal. If queue alts are logged in 1% of the session length of a char actually being used for play, then their compounded weight in PCU would be 1% if there was 1 queue alt per 1 char used to play. Nobody would notice that they're missing.

That leaves us with multiboxers, on which my own experience is that they're back with a vengence, at least ice fleeters. At my home system, a specially infamous multiboxer moved from 12 Skiffs in december, to 8 after the broadcast change, to 14 now.

And then of course, there's the little issue that we're talking about 30% less PCU since the Incarna heydays. According to white knihgters, those chars did NOTHING in game and so we shouldn't have noticed them leaving...

no no because I remember quite well people complaining that they wanted to train alts but didn't like needing to open another account to do it. And of course, if you do that, may as well multi-box. But CCP said ok we'll offer account multi-character training, filled that demand, and so those alt accounts and those multi-boxers dried up, but still active on their accounts. If you look at Chribba data site, that's when PCU/Avg started going down some. It started a decline in 2014, right when CCP started selling MCT's. If it weren't so, and CCP was losing all this money, they would already be well into lay-off mode like they did before.

MCT's are in demand, they are above PLEX prices now! 1.2b and moving. Then people like me that just buy them with AUR and use them so not even making it to the market. It's really-really hard to overlook that. And that is exactly when Europe's PCU took a little slide, when these nifty things came into the game. It's good business, and I like good business, recognize it when I see it. Less PCU, less server demand, same money. Business is business.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#331 - 2015-08-28 07:21:23 UTC
I stopped playing Eve for awhile. My main reason:

- Steam just makes alternative games so much cheaper. For $15, you can grab yourself a few cheap games that can entertain you for a month. You can buy $3 bundles from discounters outside of Steam. Basically your library grows every month, and thus your entertainment options. And lets not forget the F2P AAA MMOs that have saturated the market (like SWTOR or LOTRO).

But with Eve, $15 just buys you the same experience. Meh.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#332 - 2015-08-28 07:38:25 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
If you think the onus is on the players to alter their behavior so the sov system works, you're an idiot.

The system needs to be designed to accommodate how players are known to behave. Anything else is destined to fail.


It cannot be made to circumvent nullsecs desire to never fight and yes because you are free to choose to do nothing you have, while ironically nullsec us often heard to whine that the blue donut is boring.

Possibly, but most likely not, nullsec will someday realize they are the problem and they must be the solution, CCP provides the oppertunity to engage in large scale fights but cannot force you to utilize what they have provided.

The onus will always be on the player to engage in opportunities, while CCP has given nullsec everything it whines for, advantages that make a complete mockery of anything remotely resembling balanced game play, you choose to do nothing but whine even more that CCP is to blame, like any spoiled child would be expected to do, mommy can never give her spoiled brat enough to end her brats insessant whining and crying. "you are not fair mommy, you are just not fair".

*pouts, stomps feet, while enjoying obscene levels of privelage*

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#333 - 2015-08-28 07:47:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jill Xelitras
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
I stopped playing Eve for awhile. My main reason:

- Steam just makes alternative games so much cheaper. For $15, you can grab yourself a few cheap games that can entertain you for a month. You can buy $3 bundles from discounters outside of Steam. Basically your library grows every month, and thus your entertainment options. And lets not forget the F2P AAA MMOs that have saturated the market (like SWTOR or LOTRO).

But with Eve, $15 just buys you the same experience. Meh.


Yes and no ... the 15$ you pay for:

- Server upkeep. If EvE was run by EA, Ubisoft ... it would have been shut-down a long time ago.
- Continuous bug-fixing. Major publishers don't like spending money on bug-fixing.
- "Free expansions". Other publishers choose paid expansions, DLC, micro-transaction pay-walls ...
- Ongoing support. Yeah, we know CCP is slow ... but they do offer support. Sometimes they even help on the forum ... 12 years after the game was released.
-edit: - CCP hunting down and banning cheaters
- additional services: VoIP, streaming of the alliance tournament, o7 web-show, moderated forum ...

additional benefits you get:
- players who actually want to play EvE ... why would you pay a monthly sub or work ingame towards a PLEX if it wasn't because you like playing EvE.
- No little kiddies (This alone is worth the money)
- the feeling that the ship you just lost or made somebody else lose is actually meaningful / painful. Recently again somebody got his ship blown up with 30 PLEX inside, which dropped btw.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#334 - 2015-08-28 07:56:20 UTC
Jill Xelitras wrote:
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
I stopped playing Eve for awhile. My main reason:

- Steam just makes alternative games so much cheaper. For $15, you can grab yourself a few cheap games that can entertain you for a month. You can buy $3 bundles from discounters outside of Steam. Basically your library grows every month, and thus your entertainment options. And lets not forget the F2P AAA MMOs that have saturated the market (like SWTOR or LOTRO).

But with Eve, $15 just buys you the same experience. Meh.


Yes and no ... the 15$ you pay for:

- Server upkeep. If EvE was run by EA, Ubisoft ... it would have been shut-down a long time ago.
- Continuous bug-fixing. Major publishers don't like spending money on bug-fixing.
- "Free expansions". Other publishers choose paid expansions, DLC, micro-transaction pay-walls ...
- Ongoing support. Yeah, we know CCP is slow ... but they do offer support. Sometimes they even help on the forum ... 12 years after the game was released.
- additional services: VoIP, streaming of the alliance tournament, o7 web-show, moderated forum ...

additional benefits you get:
- players who actually want to play EvE ... why would you pay a monthly sub or work ingame towards a PLEX if it wasn't because you like playing EvE.
- No little kiddies (This alone is worth the money)
- the feeling that the ship you just lost or made somebody else lose is actually meaningful / painful. Recently again somebody got his ship blown up with 30 PLEX inside, which dropped btw.

+ you don't need to pay $30/mo to unlock tiny little portions of the game hahaha! I was in close beta for lotro, open beta and then a sub. Then they went f2p and ain't worth a dime any longer. Horrible game now. And if you play f2p, may as well take out a loan on the house to pay over - it's turned into such a money grubbing game with f2p. swtoroto never played, just not into rail shooters :/

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Astral Azizora
Doomheim
#335 - 2015-08-28 09:09:39 UTC
Jill Xelitras wrote:
Yes and no ... the 15$ you pay for:

- Server upkeep. If EvE was run by EA, Ubisoft ... it would have been shut-down a long time ago.
- Continuous bug-fixing. Major publishers don't like spending money on bug-fixing.
- "Free expansions". Other publishers choose paid expansions, DLC, micro-transaction pay-walls ...
- Ongoing support. Yeah, we know CCP is slow ... but they do offer support. Sometimes they even help on the forum ... 12 years after the game was released.
-edit: - CCP hunting down and banning cheaters
- additional services: VoIP, streaming of the alliance tournament, o7 web-show, moderated forum


Apart from free expansions, all of those things are features of F2P/B2P games too.

"But they have a cash shop"... so does EVE.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#336 - 2015-08-28 10:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Astral Azizora wrote:
Jill Xelitras wrote:
Yes and no ... the 15$ you pay for:

- Server upkeep. If EvE was run by EA, Ubisoft ... it would have been shut-down a long time ago.
- Continuous bug-fixing. Major publishers don't like spending money on bug-fixing.
- "Free expansions". Other publishers choose paid expansions, DLC, micro-transaction pay-walls ...
- Ongoing support. Yeah, we know CCP is slow ... but they do offer support. Sometimes they even help on the forum ... 12 years after the game was released.
-edit: - CCP hunting down and banning cheaters
- additional services: VoIP, streaming of the alliance tournament, o7 web-show, moderated forum


Apart from free expansions, all of those things are features of F2P/B2P games too.

"But they have a cash shop"... so does EVE.

No you don't get support in lotro as an f2p. You gotta pay something every month, then you are flagged to receive support if you need it (vip I think it was). Otherwise you go to forums and maybe get help from other players there, or in player chat. Or I think a forum-GM will answer serious account issues there etc. But in game support, no no not at all period, you're on your own unless you spend something in the game shop within like 30 days. Someone wants to try to grief you in-game, you just gotta htfu and take it or log out, if you even make the que to log in anyway.

I've tried a bunch of f2p's, you get what you pay for (such as nothing).... unless you lose control and spend huge monies then you get less than you pay for, what they really hope for. f2p's are really for those guys. Nope, I stick to either classic subscription games (some have limited access to try it out) or indie hobby games that are actually free (full access) and not free to pay but usually take donations.

Even games like Battlefield (popular fps game) are junk now, everyone wants to link the item shop, just ruining games. And I don't like to play/group with people that are weak because they won't pay a dime which then effects me or our group. Just junk.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#337 - 2015-08-28 10:29:52 UTC
Spookay wrote:
Darek Castigatus wrote:
What i think a lot of people are missing is thats theres a general downturn in MMO numbers at the moment, its not just eve and Wow. Pretty much every major MMO has seen a fall in numbers or a slowing of growth over the past three to four months.

TLDR It isn't just EvE, this is happening in the whole MMO market.



Wrong. I hate all the new changes from phoebe onward. I let all my subs lapse. The tedium CCP is adding to this game is making it dumb.

Major null alliances are dying. The meta is broken. Big fights are dying. Major wars are a thing of the past.

CCP broke nullsec... and **** playing in lowsec or highsec.


It wasn't CCP that "broke" nullsec.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#338 - 2015-08-28 10:47:20 UTC
Webvan wrote:
[quote=Astral Azizora]
No you don't get support in lotro as an f2p. You gotta pay something every month, then you are flagged to receive support if you need it (vip I think it was). Otherwise you go to forums and maybe get help from other players there, or in player chat. Or I think a forum-GM will answer serious account issues there etc. But in game support, no no not at all period, you're on your own unless you spend something in the game shop within like 30 days. Someone wants to try to grief you in-game, you just gotta htfu and take it or log out, if you even make the que to log in anyway.

I've tried a bunch of f2p's, you get what you pay for (such as nothing).... unless you lose control and spend huge monies then you get less than you pay for, what they really hope for. f2p's are really for those guys. Nope, I stick to either classic subscription games (some have limited access to try it out) or indie hobby games that are actually free (full access) and not free to pay but usually take donations.

Even games like Battlefield (popular fps game) are junk now, everyone wants to link the item shop, just ruining games. And I don't like to play/group with people that are weak because they won't pay a dime which then effects me or our group. Just junk.


F2P MMOs are suited for casual players. When you have a stable of MMOs, you're not emotionally attached to any single one. This week I might play a bit of LOTRO because of an interesting update. Next week, I might play SWTOR to roleplay my smuggler and advance the storyline a bit. The week after, some Runescape to do some crafting. It's all free.

Or you can pay $15 to CCP for the same experience you had last month.

I still think that $15 is very good value for what you get in Eve. But these days, there are so many other options that are even cheaper or free. Mount & Blade: Warband, a sandbox medieval RPG, is going for $6.80 on Steam. In conjunction with free mods, that is unbelievable value. And it's a one-time purchase only, so it's yours forever. This is the marketplace that CCP is competing in in 2015.
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#339 - 2015-08-28 10:52:53 UTC
Mir Jana wrote:
I was wondering about something...

January 2014 - average was 41k online
June 2014 - average was 32k online
December 2014 - average was 27k online
May 2015 - average was 21k online
August 2015 - average is 16k online

today I logged in at 14793 online.....

What can CCP do to re-build its populace cause obviously something is rotten in the state of Iceland...?


honestly I think eve improved the last two years, a lot more is going on due to good changes like mobile depots or nullified interceptors, if people are leaving then its just those who have been cancer to the game, I see this like a healthy surgery... you cut out the tumor to assure you can breath again and grow, CCP is doing that with nearly perfect execution

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#340 - 2015-08-28 11:00:36 UTC
God have mercy...

CCP forgot to cut out everything. Roll

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!