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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#221 - 2015-08-26 16:30:40 UTC
AtramLolipop wrote:


If people want PVP it is everywhere in the game. Problem is the people screaming that null sec is stagnant is because they are a sheep in a huge alliance. Alliances, in my game design should not exist and corporations should have a limited amount of members. Alliances have too many blues, are too big and ruin the game through dictatorship. At least make it harder for entities to become fweinds.


Alliance were added by CCP because out fo game tools were used to make them work when the game didn't officially support them.

Coalition are just another layer of player made alliance that goes beyond the internal feature of the game.

You are asking CCP to nerf diplomats. Good luck with that.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#222 - 2015-08-26 16:38:25 UTC
Adding to above post, but not edit since different direction. I had been in a sov controlled part of delve for three days. Saw zero people. Maybe got to just abandon some areas of space all together. Also with jump changes, maybe we need border alliances. So if moving abandon space between and let indie style take it and run like a freeport. Strategic freeports. The holder is blue to all sides, open stations. Would be interesting anyways. Supply and null sec market easier, a center of pvp, and adds like a transition point. Like a little pocket of pirate sov.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
AtramLolipop
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#223 - 2015-08-26 16:58:30 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
AtramLolipop wrote:


If people want PVP it is everywhere in the game. Problem is the people screaming that null sec is stagnant is because they are a sheep in a huge alliance. Alliances, in my game design should not exist and corporations should have a limited amount of members. Alliances have too many blues, are too big and ruin the game through dictatorship. At least make it harder for entities to become fweinds.


Alliance were added by CCP because out fo game tools were used to make them work when the game didn't officially support them.

Coalition are just another layer of player made alliance that goes beyond the internal feature of the game.

You are asking CCP to nerf diplomats. Good luck with that.


Everything but diplomacy is nerfed, why not? It amazes me time after time that people ***** and moan about game mechanics and yet the players themselves decide how to play the game.... Amazes how many people from blocks dry about having nothing to when you've blued up half of eve and sit in a flock of mindless sheep
Jenshae Chiroptera
#224 - 2015-08-26 17:07:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
... FozzieSov has proven not to be EveJesus. Instead, the best FozzieSov can claim is that it has not accelerated the decline. ...
Subscriptions cycles haven't ended in many cases. We can't know for sure either way yet.
For some the novelty hasn't even worn off yet.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#225 - 2015-08-26 17:10:56 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
IMO the most alarming thing about Eve's health is that historically after an expansion there is a spike in player numbers as folk come back to the game to see what's new. After FozzieSov there has been no spike. FozzieSov has proven not to be EveJesus. Instead, the best FozzieSov can claim is that it has not accelerated the decline.

Really, CCP needs to come to grips with the fact that the decline in numbers coincides directly with their efforts to make the game easier, more casual, and new player friendly. Most of their recent changes such as the safety, awok nerfs, and jump fat have not brought in new players while angering and driving away older folk. Much of the complexity of the game has been stripped away. And now instead of relying on the sandbox to create content, CCP as gone a full blizzard and is asking players to form up to battle npc (drifters) for their content. Well I dont want to shoot npc; I want to shoot players and I want the players to be making the content not ccp.


6 Week patch cycle sort of takes away from the patch hype effect.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#226 - 2015-08-26 17:17:04 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

Who the hell made you believe a small group would be able to face a larger more organised one?


Star Wars



Pretty much every revolution in history against an oppressive group.

Just to name some more famous ones:

Lucretian Revolution of 504BC
Boudica and the Celtic Revolution
The 30 some Revolutions of Muslims against Arab Kingdoms of the 8th century
The Scottish War of Independence, first and second (you know the one Mel Gibson led)
Ming Dynasty
The Battle of the Golden Spurs (love my Flandersian Brothers)
The 80 Years War
The Portuguese War of Independence
The French Revolution
The American Revolution
The Iberian Guerilla War 1807-1812
Most of the Battles of the American Civil War where the Confederation States won
Pretty much any battle the Allies won against Germany or Japan in the early years of World War II

Keep going?

But you know what is awesome... none of that matters at all because that is RL and this is a game.


In all those historical references the small group had force multipliers or other advantages that allowed them to engage in asymmetrical warfare to overcome the numbers of the other side. Of course, in eve anything that allows a smaller group to take on a larger group, e.g. off grid boosters, ecm, etc..., is derided and nerfed.


It's usually nerfed when the alrge group demonstrate how broken it is when used on a large scale. Which one of those multiplier really gives the small guy an advantage when the large group can field it and then some?

Links don't help against large organisation because the organisation also have them.

E-WAR is also fielded by large organisation.

Have anything else you think give the small guy an edge?

If anything, all those revolution had something a shitload of people in EVE don't really have, an actual cause they cared about and were ready to put the very best they could on the line to get it. They put their life on the line. When is the last time you saw the "Grrrrr "insert entity" movement actually get it's act together and do something instead of just talking about it?


Thats the way it is in real life too. Large groups can engage in asymmetrical warfare just like small groups. Why should eve be any different? The reason why things like ECM get nerfed is because of feelings of entitlement. People think that because they out number some guy they should win automatically and that it is unfair when the falcon pops out. However, that's the whole point of the falcon - to change the game from rock, paper scissor to something less predictable. Now ofc the big group could use a falcon too - but then the smaller group should avoid that engagement and look for targets where it can engage in asymmetrical warfare.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#227 - 2015-08-26 17:20:42 UTC
Mir Jana wrote:


What can CCP do to re-build its populace
Learn from their mistakes instead of compounding them.

Mr Epeen Cool
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#228 - 2015-08-26 17:52:13 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

Who the hell made you believe a small group would be able to face a larger more organised one?


Star Wars



Pretty much every revolution in history against an oppressive group.

Just to name some more famous ones:

Lucretian Revolution of 504BC
Boudica and the Celtic Revolution
The 30 some Revolutions of Muslims against Arab Kingdoms of the 8th century
The Scottish War of Independence, first and second (you know the one Mel Gibson led)
Ming Dynasty
The Battle of the Golden Spurs (love my Flandersian Brothers)
The 80 Years War
The Portuguese War of Independence
The French Revolution
The American Revolution
The Iberian Guerilla War 1807-1812
Most of the Battles of the American Civil War where the Confederation States won
Pretty much any battle the Allies won against Germany or Japan in the early years of World War II

Keep going?

But you know what is awesome... none of that matters at all because that is RL and this is a game.


In all those historical references the small group had force multipliers or other advantages that allowed them to engage in asymmetrical warfare to overcome the numbers of the other side. Of course, in eve anything that allows a smaller group to take on a larger group, e.g. off grid boosters, ecm, etc..., is derided and nerfed.


Let us not forget one of the best small group v large group victories, where Dumbledore's army defeated the death eater army!

I have to say, I cant believe just how many HP fan fictions are out there! This was a great choice for Eve is dying thread responses, and id like to thank everyone who was involved in the decision making process. Soon, The Troll Bridge will roll out a new automated system for this, as well as a snazzy new acronym. Once again, we have top men working on this. Of course, all of our people at TL-DR are top men, so as long as someone is working on it, it is, in fact, being worked on by top men.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#229 - 2015-08-26 18:36:16 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:


Let us not forget one of the best small group v large group victories, where Dumbledore's army defeated the death eater army!

I have to say, I cant believe just how many HP fan fictions are out there! This was a great choice for Eve is dying thread responses, and id like to thank everyone who was involved in the decision making process. Soon, The Troll Bridge will roll out a new automated system for this, as well as a snazzy new acronym. Once again, we have top men working on this. Of course, all of our people at TL-DR are top men, so as long as someone is working on it, it is, in fact, being worked on by top men.


QFT ... quoting fiction trolling. It's like the drive-by shooting of forum gang-wars.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#230 - 2015-08-26 18:39:08 UTC
If you think the onus is on the players to alter their behavior so the sov system works, you're an idiot.

The system needs to be designed to accommodate how players are known to behave. Anything else is destined to fail.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#231 - 2015-08-26 18:43:28 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:


The system needs to be designed to accommodate how players are known to behave. Anything else is destined to fail.
Good quote. I think I'll link it every time you go on one of your 'force them out of high sec' rants.

Mr Epeen Cool
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#232 - 2015-08-26 18:44:37 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
If you think the onus is on the players to alter their behavior so the sov system works, you're an idiot.

The system needs to be designed to accommodate how players are known to behave. Anything else is destined to fail.


Oh, in that case: let's set everyones mutual standings to blue and remove neutral and below. That should keep players busy for a while.

But you're right. You can't force people down one way, not in a sanbox game like EvE. Sandbox EvE, best EvE.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#233 - 2015-08-26 18:52:30 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:


The system needs to be designed to accommodate how players are known to behave. Anything else is destined to fail.
Good quote. I think I'll link it every time you go on one of your 'force them out of high sec' rants.

Mr Epeen Cool

You'll be waiting a very long time.
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#234 - 2015-08-26 19:00:44 UTC
Another aspect I remembered that has caused me to reduce my time within the game. Perhaps I am just a role player at heart, but back in the day *waves cane*, both CCP and outside sources used to have articles, books, chronicles, and print magazines that touched on aspects to the game not normally a part of a player's gaming experience. They added depth to a gaming world. But today, many of the videos CCP releases are not to promote a sense of lore, but to highlight what they have coming out soon.

And it did not help that the "cold, dark universe" has become warmer and brighter through the fear of not being real life politically correct...
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#235 - 2015-08-26 19:07:39 UTC
Direct correlation between heavy ISD moderation and EvE's decline in numbers.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#236 - 2015-08-26 19:25:33 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
If you think the onus is on the players to alter their behavior so the sov system works, you're an idiot.

The system needs to be designed to accommodate how players are known to behave. Anything else is destined to fail.



I would say the system needs to be designed to accommodate how players have learned to behave. Present behaviour patterns are the result of living with other sov systems for years. We have no data on how players would be behaving if the sov system had started out like this, and if players and alliances weren't shaped by years of coalition level thinking.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#237 - 2015-08-26 19:31:58 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
If you think the onus is on the players to alter their behavior so the sov system works, you're an idiot.

The system needs to be designed to accommodate how players are known to behave. Anything else is destined to fail.


A system designed to work with how player learned to play leads us back to an absent landlord system...
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#238 - 2015-08-26 19:47:54 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
If you think the onus is on the players to alter their behavior so the sov system works, you're an idiot.

The system needs to be designed to accommodate how players are known to behave. Anything else is destined to fail.


Then that explains why CCP is developing the game based on what they wish that players did rather than what players actually do.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#239 - 2015-08-26 19:55:41 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
Another aspect I remembered that has caused me to reduce my time within the game. Perhaps I am just a role player at heart, but back in the day *waves cane*, both CCP and outside sources used to have articles, books, chronicles, and print magazines that touched on aspects to the game not normally a part of a player's gaming experience. They added depth to a gaming world. But today, many of the videos CCP releases are not to promote a sense of lore, but to highlight what they have coming out soon.

And it did not help that the "cold, dark universe" has become warmer and brighter through the fear of not being real life politically correct...


Not too different from me, but it snuck back in riding an armored cybernetic triceratops... That only eats human flesh... The new scope videos and events are quite engaging, roleplayer or not. Even if not RP, that is months of story and news, wondering what was up. In game stuff as well. Maybe mags and stuff witll make a comeback. Online newsletters, etc. The art of new eden book was quite well done. Chronicles I believe on the rise as well.

I suspect colder, darker and harsher is coming back. Hence the hate of fozziesov. People carebear pvp only fight if they can take no losses.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#240 - 2015-08-26 20:27:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
If you think the onus is on the players to alter their behavior so the sov system works, you're an idiot.

The system needs to be designed to accommodate how players are known to behave. Anything else is destined to fail.

Then that explains why CCP is developing the game based on what they wish that players did rather than what players actually do.

Their vision of nullsec

where freighters are convoyed
where frigates are the endgame
oh and ""slippery" kiting doctrines

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?