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[Galatea] First batch of sov capture iterations

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Author
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1101 - 2015-08-25 08:59:46 UTC
Kystraz wrote:
Orca Platypus wrote:
Kystraz wrote:
That has nothing to do with solo interceptor v. solo griffin being not enjoyable and fascinating for all players involved.


Solo interceptor is a roamer, not a sov contest fleet, thus having NOTHING to do with goals or fozziesov itself.
Please clarify what are you crying about: Roamers, or the fact you now have to react on a mighty 90 dps threat who just tackled itself on your station?


It has an entosis module and is participating in aegis sov mechanics in a way that is not "enjoyable and fascinating for all players involved".


They just cant grasp that point we keep on making. How many ways can we say having to respond trollcepters attacking sov is more boring than the old sov mechanics?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1102 - 2015-08-25 09:07:23 UTC
Speak for yourself. We have fun. As long as bored PVPers get into space and stop spinning ships in outposts or play other games, it is fine.

Numbers, on the other hand, are a far greater problem than people getting fed up by not getting a kill mail when they undock.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1103 - 2015-08-25 09:59:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kystraz wrote:
Orca Platypus wrote:
Kystraz wrote:
That has nothing to do with solo interceptor v. solo griffin being not enjoyable and fascinating for all players involved.


Solo interceptor is a roamer, not a sov contest fleet, thus having NOTHING to do with goals or fozziesov itself.
Please clarify what are you crying about: Roamers, or the fact you now have to react on a mighty 90 dps threat who just tackled itself on your station?


It has an entosis module and is participating in aegis sov mechanics in a way that is not "enjoyable and fascinating for all players involved".


They just cant grasp that point we keep on making. How many ways can we say having to respond trollcepters attacking sov is more boring than the old sov mechanics?


The point you're making is that essentially you're crying over a roamer who uses entosis without "fighting over a system" (thus making goal #1 inapplicable) just to force some holed up bears to undock their battle badger and waste 1 minute to deal with him. 30 seconds if he's entosising a station.

Is that a "nerf roam" tears I see?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1104 - 2015-08-25 10:05:41 UTC
Warmeister wrote:
it's amazing how the tune is changing after one night :D
It was never the tune. The plan was to invade Provi long before the mechanics were out. Since interceptors can't actually take sov and can only troll defenders into response, it would be weird to assume that we were going to attack in that way. We want to actually finish the timers and watch provi burn, not just ring the doorbell and run away.


Orca, you're not very good at trolling. Shush now. I have no interest in responding to your posts until you know what you are talking about and have the basic common decency to have a constructive discussion.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1105 - 2015-08-25 10:29:24 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Warmeister wrote:
it's amazing how the tune is changing after one night :D
It was never the tune. The plan was to invade Provi long before the mechanics were out. Since interceptors can't actually take sov and can only troll defenders into response, it would be weird to assume that we were going to attack in that way. We want to actually finish the timers and watch provi burn, not just ring the doorbell and run away.


Orca, you're not very good at trolling. Shush now. I have no interest in responding to your posts until you know what you are talking about and have the basic common decency to have a constructive discussion.


So first gewns teach others backbones, now decency? With all the ad gewnminems you thrown, decency? THE IRONY.

And I'm a bit lazy to browse posts (you may have deleted the relevant ones by now anyway) but it was exactly the tune you turned 180 degrees somewhere this night.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1106 - 2015-08-25 10:30:52 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kystraz wrote:
Orca Platypus wrote:
Kystraz wrote:
That has nothing to do with solo interceptor v. solo griffin being not enjoyable and fascinating for all players involved.


Solo interceptor is a roamer, not a sov contest fleet, thus having NOTHING to do with goals or fozziesov itself.
Please clarify what are you crying about: Roamers, or the fact you now have to react on a mighty 90 dps threat who just tackled itself on your station?


It has an entosis module and is participating in aegis sov mechanics in a way that is not "enjoyable and fascinating for all players involved".


They just cant grasp that point we keep on making. How many ways can we say having to respond trollcepters attacking sov is more boring than the old sov mechanics?


The point you're making is that essentially you're crying over a roamer who uses entosis without "fighting over a system" (thus making goal #1 inapplicable) just to force some holed up bears to undock their battle badger and waste 1 minute to deal with him. 30 seconds if he's entosising a station.

Is that a "nerf roam" tears I see?


Only its not 1 minute, its 4 hours at the very least.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1107 - 2015-08-25 10:32:44 UTC
Remove entosis COMPLETELY from frigates and T3 (avoid the nullification issue).

Give ab onus to Combat Battecruiser using entosis ( finaly they will have a role again)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1108 - 2015-08-25 10:44:11 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Only its not 1 minute, its 4 hours at the very least.


And those guys were telling me they know entosis mechanics... it's 2 hours at most unless you're one of the people whos rear parts gets on fire when mining laser is used. And even if you don't know how to camp node in a recon, dealing with him for the day, you only need to tend to the ceptor like once every 10 minutes for him to not make enough progress to complete capture within the vulnerability time window. And once only an hour is left and his progress is 0, you can ignore him for the rest of the duration.

Get up to date with your tactics already.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1109 - 2015-08-25 11:04:27 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Orca Platypus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Only its not 1 minute, its 4 hours at the very least.


And those guys were telling me they know entosis mechanics... it's 2 hours at most unless you're one of the people whos rear parts gets on fire when mining laser is used. And even if you don't know how to camp node in a recon, dealing with him for the day, you only need to tend to the ceptor like once every 10 minutes for him to not make enough progress to complete capture within the vulnerability time window. And once only an hour is left and his progress is 0, you can ignore him for the rest of the duration.

Get up to date with your tactics already.


And when we look at sov space we find we find that only two regions had high industrial index so most of sov null fall under your "people whos rear parts gets on fire when mining laser is used". You can also attack station services at any time. So that comment you made saying we only needed to spend 30 seconds to a minute defending space is an outright lie, glad you admitted it.

We also know that the vast bulk of entosising is being done with interceptors followed by nullified cloaky t3s, built to avoid fights which is the exact opposite of the goals set for the new sov system.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1110 - 2015-08-25 11:14:17 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


We also know that the vast bulk of entosising is being done with interceptors followed by nullified cloaky t3s, built to avoid fights which is the exact opposite of the goals set for the new sov system.



And that is why removing all frigates and nullified t3 from using entosis is the most important thing to fix the issues with fozzie sov.

A bonus to ships like BC that are almost never used would be a cherry over the cake.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1111 - 2015-08-25 11:14:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Orca Platypus
baltec1 wrote:
And when we look at sov space we find we find that only two regions had high industrial index so most of sov null fall under your "people whos rear parts gets on fire when mining laser is used".

gewnull is not all null.
There is a lot of systems various alliances will not be able to hold, give it time. Not getting ADM at 6 in a system you use is what I'm talking about, obviously.
You somehow talk sov based on regions, well, it's not region-quantity game anymore, gewnie. Catch up.

baltec1 wrote:
You can also attack station services at any time.

Except you cannot attack them if you have an active entosis cycle after being chased away and have to redo warmup.
Seriously, I had no idea you are so bad at fozziesov. I started handing you advanced stuff and now I know why you couldn't understand it - it's because you haven't even drilled the basics yet.

baltec1 wrote:
So that comment you made saying we only needed to spend 30 seconds to a minute defending space is an outright lie, glad you admitted it.

The fact you understood nothing from what I said, rather. Gewn's trademark reading comprehension failure.

baltec1 wrote:
We also know that the vast bulk of entosising is being done with interceptors followed by nullified cloaky t3s, built to avoid fights which is the exact opposite of the goals set for the new sov system.

Citation needed (c).

Once again, and I'll repeat it till even the dimmest of gewns get it, trollceptor can only grab uncontested sov, and if your sov goes uncontested, you don't deserve it.

I've yet to see T3 used in entosis in south, but how the hell does it avoid being caught? Can't even imagine, unless it's a T2 entosis fit, which I admittedly haven't seen yet. Is it?
I mean, you can just land on it like you do on a 100MN links T3 except entosis T3 can't just warp away, which is like the only defense link T3 has. So how?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1112 - 2015-08-25 11:25:11 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:


Once again, and I'll repeat it till even the dimmest of gewns get it, trollceptor can only grab uncontested sov, and if your sov goes uncontested, you don't deserve it.

I've yet to see T3 used in entosis in south, but how the hell does it avoid being caught? Can't even imagine, unless it's a T2 entosis fit, which I admittedly haven't seen yet. Is it?
I mean, you can just land on it like you do on a 100MN links T3 except entosis T3 can't just warp away, which is like the only defense link T3 has. So how?



The point is not about people getting sov with interceptors. IS that peopel are not wantign to get sov, they just want to **** and make angry sov holders using interceptors.

And clearly a LOT of people are doing that, and the result is a not fun scenario for a large player base. Interceptors are very hard to keep away from your territory due to nullification. SO you not only need to keep the territory guarded and sued, you need to keep goign into your backyard every few minutes to scare the pigeons that land there and start doing anoying noises.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

AtramLolipop
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#1113 - 2015-08-25 11:29:16 UTC
bye bye caps, hello troll ceptors and 10 man frigate gangs.... we hope.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1114 - 2015-08-25 11:30:02 UTC
Just hide his posts. He doesn't want to get it and has no intention of having a constructive discussion because "grr goons".

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1115 - 2015-08-25 11:31:23 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The point is not about people getting sov with interceptors. IS that peopel are not wantign to get sov, they just want to **** and make angry sov holders using interceptors.

They are legit roamers with a newfound ability to make bears undock. Except that, nothing is there which wasn't there in roams, except roams don't get self-tackled on your station.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
And clearly a LOT of people are doing that

Citation needed (c).
I don't see a lot of people in trollceptors, because there's no uncontested sov they can grab nearby.
If your sov can be grabbed uncontested, it shouldn't be yours in the first place.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
and the result is a not fun scenario for a large player base. Interceptors are very hard to keep away from your territory due to nullification. SO you not only need to keep the territory guarded and sued, you need to keep goign into your backyard every few minutes to scare the pigeons that land there and start doing anoying noises.

Well sorry if defending your territory from a mighty 90 dps self-tackled threat is too much to ask.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1116 - 2015-08-25 11:35:08 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Just hide his posts. He doesn't want to get it and has no intention of having a constructive discussion because "grr goons".

I find your lack of arguments disturbing.
If you have any, bring them on.
If all you have is more tears, by all means keep crying, delicious.

And that was a nice switcheroo you pulled on a trollceptor there today! Like a true propagewndean.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1117 - 2015-08-25 11:54:19 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The point is not about people getting sov with interceptors. IS that peopel are not wantign to get sov, they just want to **** and make angry sov holders using interceptors.

They are legit roamers with a newfound ability to make bears undock. Except that, nothing is there which wasn't there in roams, except roams don't get self-tackled on your station.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
And clearly a LOT of people are doing that

Citation needed (c).
I don't see a lot of people in trollceptors, because there's no uncontested sov they can grab nearby.
If your sov can be grabbed uncontested, it shouldn't be yours in the first place.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
and the result is a not fun scenario for a large player base. Interceptors are very hard to keep away from your territory due to nullification. SO you not only need to keep the territory guarded and sued, you need to keep goign into your backyard every few minutes to scare the pigeons that land there and start doing anoying noises.

Well sorry if defending your territory from a mighty 90 dps self-tackled threat is too much to ask.



Citation needed is one of the most stupid thigns you can post on a forum discussion, specially when you are posting with a NPC corp character. People that are in the sov hodlers corps are the ones that get the bennefit of not needign a citiation, if YOU want to prove otherwise it is up to you to bring proof, because you are not in a position to make anyoen beleive in you when you post from an NPC corp that has no place in sov game.

The fact that you point the 90 dps as even a factor just proves how ignorant of the problem you are, a gunless ship is as dangerous to sov as a a 1 trillion dps ship would be.

If you cannot understand that sacrificing a interceptor every few minutes just to anger other players is too effective way of MEta warfare tha do nto generate combat, just play the psycological game, then you do nto deserve new answers.

Trollceptors are just the new version of the "DENY ALL CONTENT"problem of the previous system.

Fozzie, we need content, not trolceptors. Banish frigates from using them and you will achieve it.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1118 - 2015-08-25 12:02:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Kagura Nikon wrote:
And clearly a LOT of people are doing that, and the result is a not fun scenario for a large player base. Interceptors are very hard to keep away from your territory due to nullification. SO you not only need to keep the territory guarded and sued, you need to keep goign into your backyard every few minutes to scare the pigeons that land there and start doing anoying noises.
This is the entire point of occupancy based sov. You need to be there to claim it as yours. If you are not there, your claim is void and open to attacks. If you need to get there, you do not occupy it, you only exert an empty claim.
The only issue is that entities like CFC still need more than 1 region to sustain themselves and thus offer such a large attackable surface. As soon as you can cram dozens of active people into one system, provide them with what they need to live there (PVE and PVP-wise. Only having PVE ships in a system because it's your ratting location is already something that needs to be abolished), and have them active, trolling of whatever kind is quickly dealt with.

Banishing ceptors from using ELs is not going to give fights. It is, as said, only going to shift the problem from evading fights to not being able to start a fight to begin with. If nothing else, the current steamrolling of Providence at least tells that. Making it possible for powerful entities such as CFC (2/5 of the Null population is powerful) to be practically unassailable as any attempt can be easily dealt with, is nothing that should be supported.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1119 - 2015-08-25 12:09:34 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Fozzie, we need content, not trolceptors. Banish frigates from using them and you will achieve it.


I would like to take this opportunity to repeat my earlier suggestion. Have it so entosis link now gives a 5% speed boost, qualifies as a prop mod, and thusly you cannot activate another prop mod with it engaged. This way interceptors and T3's cannot be used to troll nearly as much, as they are a near-guaranteed kill while entosising unless they have a supporting fleet and they have genuine control of the grid.

I'd rather that, than strip the entosis link from any given ship class, due to Fozzie having stated that he wants to put the most minimal impact on ship doctrines to capture sov.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1120 - 2015-08-25 12:52:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Orca Platypus wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Just hide his posts. He doesn't want to get it and has no intention of having a constructive discussion because "grr goons".

I find your lack of arguments disturbing.
If you have any, bring them on.
We've had plenty, you've just chosen not to respond to them and just sit about going "grr goons abloobloobloo". It's not surprising since that character appears to have been designed specifically to whine about goons, but there's simply no point in engaging you in this discussion. You've not intention of even acknowledging the arguments being made let alone having a constructive discussion about them.

At the end of the day, sov mechanics are supposed to be entertaining for all sides and for most people they aren't. CCP will eventually get around to fixing these issues even if they take an extraordinarily long time to do it. Your butthurt over whatever it was that goons did to upset you will not change that.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
Trollceptors are just the new version of the "DENY ALL CONTENT"problem of the previous system.
This is a pretty good summary right here.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.