EVE General Discussion

I like your perspective.

When I see people talking about isk per hour it makes Eve seem like a job, this very thread is proof that lots of us define our Eve existence by how much can be earned in an hour and there is clear envy aimed at others who earn more IPH. This is not what I call fun, I call it a bitter rat race.

I prefer belt ratting to incursions and most other PVE, I know most of you will think I am crazy for believing this, I enjoy warping belt to belt and hoping I get lucky with a special spawn, I enjoy the risk, and I even enjoy getting my loot to hi sec so the jita boys can earn a small % while I settle for an immediate payment.

It's not right to say nerf incursions just because people are earning more than you, or because YOU think the balance is incorrect.

Addng to my previous posts about revamping incursions I really like the idea of well organised NPC PVP fleets, they could have RR, ecm, and the ability to hold a good FC at a stalemate. I know you can do this CCP I have done a couple of burner missions and I like their intelligence, try to build on this and design an NPC fleet that can respond to lots of different actions by player fleets. I could go on all day about NPC Rat intelligence.

I know what I'm proposing would be a programming nightmare, there would be so many lines of code involved in making an NPC rat consider what is happening to 10 other NPC rats and selecting a unified reaction. I understand that running the type of code I mention here would use more CPU and Memory because the rats need to be constantly aware of the whole fleets situation. I know someone has worked hard on the burner AI all I can say is please keep going and build upon it and have a look at applying it to incursions.

Any other programmers out there that could shine some light on this? is it even possible in games as yet?

Then post with your main so we know who to wardec.

"Look how much money I make IRL. "

I can make well over 120mill/h, solo and near indefinitely in either HS or null. in fact if you have contacts you don't even have to ship the LP store stuff to the market, they will come pick it up where you run your missions. This isn't a theoretical isk/h either. This is something I measured by entering my starting isk & time and then entering my end isk and time and doing a very simple little isk/h calculation. No booster alts or even mission pulling alts, just little old me.

However I don't think that is in any way wrong. I currently enjoy doing this and once I no longer find any enjoyment in it I move on and do something else, maybe Null PvP again. It's as valid a gamestyle and if you disagree you are free to come make me not play that way as is the way of eve. Me making and having isk equates to content for at least someone, be it the Belt ratter in null, the exploration toon getting me dedspace mods, the low/nullsec mission runner getting me pirate ships or the renter farming T2 moongoo for modules I use and even the wormhole guy making me the T3 stuff I want. I can't pay for any of that without isk and I cant transport any of that without the risk of getting ganked.

There is a lot of butthurt in this thread about people not liking the way other people play and it is quite amusing to read.

Please insert fantasy hi-sec isk per hour here...

Anything less than 100m per hour in a Velator armed with civilian mining lasers does not count.

Those dont happen cuz of the Logi.
Nice try.

Thats more than half what people are cryimg/complaining about here dude.
The fact it is harder to awox 1 man FF illegal Incursion wardec imune corps
And lol ganking.
You need to alpha them which good luck doing that to a maurader or bling BS without bringing 15 gank ships yourself.
Youd be better to just use those 15 tornados on 15 separate haulers and get more kills and more loot.


They need to be easier to kill all around if they make the most isk of all of eve while having the least risk.
High isk=high risk=high chance of death.

And of course this isn't true. It hasn't been true for a very very long time. And CCP keep making stuff that makes easy isk making using cheapish ships possible. Burner mission blitzing is a prime example. A tech2 incursion Scimitar trained to logi 4 doesn't take that long, doesn't cost that much and will get you in a blingy incursion fleet making more than 120 mil an hour once the fleet gets rolling

The above poster is an excellent example of what I always talk about. He can't figure out how to do it, so no one must be able to do it, and that leads to woefully incorrect assumptions about everything. That's the incredible thing about EVE, it's so diverse, people can not only be bad at PVP, in EVE you can totally suck at PVE too lol.

And even if he was right (he is not, you should see his missions and complexes posts), 120 mil is per hour means that you can spend one hour a day playing EVE doing pve with 1 ship and plex 4 accounts per month or plex 1 account and have the equivilant of 3 plexes worth of isk in your wallet to blow on other things. or spend 30 minutes per day PVEing, use have your isk for a plex and the other half for ships to explode 1 900 mil+ is enough for a good month of frig/cruiser and some battlecruiser whelping.

It's cool and all that people consider them hard to gank but that's kind of the fault of the content itself. The incursion runners have a minimum threshold of tank required or they just lose ships after ships. This mean the average incursion runner boat is probably much more tanky than any hauler, mission runner or miner boat. Who's fault is it that the ship has to handle the initial spawn of a TCRC with otunis neuting your cap hard enough to sometime even turn off a DCU? The ship are harder to gank because the runners are FORCED by the content itself to fit better than the average bear.

They would all run thinner tank to get a few % more performance for added isk/hours if they could but the barrier of entry is there.

Logi also has a role to play but then again, the content require them to be there. You can't run HQ sites without logi. It just does not work.

Forced halfway decent tank fitted + forced logi support makes for harder ship to gank.

The only thing you can do is reduce the income or reduce the required buffer on the ships by lowering sansha's total applicable DPS. Then their total income will be lower OR they will be easyer to gank by virtue of being bears optimising their ISK/hours with just as much tank as the content require.

These are good suggestions.

Here is the thing that is the core of the discussion. Is it the isk that is the problem or the means at which one gets it?

I approve of incursions, and the isk, but my complaint is with the latter. Incursions are very stagnant. If a person made similar (well, maybe a bit less but higher than L4 in highsec incursions) but it did require an on the ball FC where the sites no longer had any predictable nature to them, would that be a bad thing for the client base? How does discussion of incursions in current iteration affect potential new players vs if they brought in different mechanics?