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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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AT XIII RULING: Together We Solo vs Gone Critical - Team Warp-in

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Elig
Doomheim
#121 - 2015-08-18 16:36:26 UTC
CCP's decision in this is hilariously bad.

Imagine a StarCraft 2 match where one competitor was allowed to confer with a coach for an unfair advantage and the organizer said "well they did cheat, but after consideration we'll have the match stand without any penalty applied because our referee didn't know that wasn't allowed."
Tallardar
Doomheim
#122 - 2015-08-18 16:48:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallardar
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
So why did the warp in not matter?
1.) By the time TWS applied its damage to a GC target that mattered (i.e.the blackbird at about 3 minutes in), GC had full control of their positioning. That's enough time for an Onieros to slowboat 50 km's, which is within medium repper range, let alone the 75 km's rep range of large reppers.

What I want to know, is how could the match have started without GC pointing out the inappropriate warp in range? That makes no sense to me! Of all the people on field, it should have been most obvious to them, and I really don't understand why no one said something in local during the 60s prior to the match.


Except the extra 50km bought TWS extra time to not receive any damage from GC that would have not occurred if they were at the maximum 50km range. At 50km starting, the GC ships wouldn't have needed to spend as much time burning towards TWS to apply damage, effectively the starting time between being able to apply damage on GC's part was doubled. You can spin it however you want, but that's certainly a factor in the outcome of the match.

Also the onus isn't solely on GC to call out a violation of the rules. TWS supposedly were aware of the rules as well given that they've spent the past few months prepping their comps and skirmishes around those rules. It's also CCP's job to enforce the rules with their referees on field. The excuse shared by TWS's captain that, "oh we didn't know 100km warp ins aren't allowed" is pretty weak. It's like an NFL player going "oh I didn't know holding wasn't allowed." No one is going to buy that because you have spent your time practicing with the rules of the game enforced. GC could have called it out sure, but again it's not their sole responsibility when the other two parties are supposed to know the rules as well.

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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#123 - 2015-08-18 17:44:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Tallardar wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
So why did the warp in not matter?
1.) By the time TWS applied its damage to a GC target that mattered (i.e.the blackbird at about 3 minutes in), GC had full control of their positioning. That's enough time for an Onieros to slowboat 50 km's, which is within medium repper range, let alone the 75 km's rep range of large reppers.

What I want to know, is how could the match have started without GC pointing out the inappropriate warp in range? That makes no sense to me! Of all the people on field, it should have been most obvious to them, and I really don't understand why no one said something in local during the 60s prior to the match.


Except the extra 50km bought TWS extra time to not receive any damage from GC that would have not occurred if they were at the maximum 50km range. At 50km starting, the GC ships wouldn't have needed to spend as much time burning towards TWS to apply damage, effectively the starting time between being able to apply damage on GC's part was doubled. You can spin it however you want, but that's certainly a factor in the outcome of the match.

Also the onus isn't solely on GC to call out a violation of the rules. TWS supposedly were aware of the rules as well given that they've spent the past few months prepping their comps and skirmishes around those rules. It's also CCP's job to enforce the rules with their referees on field. The excuse shared by TWS's captain that, "oh we didn't know 100km warp ins aren't allowed" is pretty weak. It's like an NFL player going "oh I didn't know holding wasn't allowed." No one is going to buy that because you have spent your time practicing with the rules of the game enforced. GC could have called it out sure, but again it's not their sole responsibility when the other two parties are supposed to know the rules as well.


I think you are overestimating the damage projection that TWS had. Sure, their Cruise Missile fit SNI's could hit that far, but the rattlesnake dps was lacking at that range. And to be frank, the Rattlesnake's drones apply much more dps to a fast moving cruiser than cruise missiles from two SNI's.

Had the appropriate penalty action been taken by CCP, the entire TWS team would have been moved to zero, and I don't think we know enough to accurately call the outcome. Target calling would probably have changed, and I doubt Oni reps would have held with the additional damage from the Rattlesnake. Additionally, I'm pretty sure the Basi would still have tanked the entire GC team (since it already demonstrated it could!). The big wild card is Jams. Neither Widow nor Rook jams are very effective at 100 km's, as only the BB had a jam range bonus.

In my analysis of the match, GC had the upper hand until 3 minutes into the match, despite any advantage the TWS warp in provided. GC then lost the upper hand when their target calling and EWAR application resulted in poorly applied damage, while TWS identified the weak points in GC's composition and capitalized on it. I don't dispute that the match would have been different had corrective action been taken, but GC did NOT lose the match because of the abnormal TWS warp in.
Bird Flu Vulnero
The Classy Gentlemans Corporation
Moist.
#124 - 2015-08-18 19:00:17 UTC
CCP ******* up isn't new to this years tourney. Last year they warped the other team to us before the match giving them free info on our comp. Instead of letting us reship or something they just let the match go on and the other team just happened to come in at max range even with their frigate wing and pick our blaster team apart at range. But at least CCP is posting about this kind of stuff this year we didn't even get a sorry.
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2015-08-23 14:33:05 UTC
The assumption why the decision was left standing was probably; "They brought a turtle we look at DPS graphs and think they cannot break them."
Thing is; **** ups happen and turtles can easily be smashed if you just bring enough DPS, primary the right target and neuts also help...