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[Galatea] First batch of sov capture iterations

First post First post
Author
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2015-08-19 01:42:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Alp Khan
Wilhelm Knicklicht wrote:
Reagalan wrote:
Fozziesov is not engaging for the average fleet member, who has to wait around while the magical sov hackers do all the work. Under Dominion sov, your average fleet member got to contribute via DPS, and at least got killmails at the end.


TL;DR: fozziesov not attractive for the average goon member who just wants to get fleetwarped and press F1.

system working as intended.


I suppose you will edit your post out when a brighter crayon in the box you are in points it out to you that Reagalan is not some "average goon member who just wants to get fleetwarped and press F1" which, quite literally only exists in the collective imagination of the GRR GON crowd and instead, is a bloc level FC that often leads strategic fleets.

I will give you bonus points if you turn out to be some backwater PvE wormholer or a high-sec Noctis salvager, because you do certainly demonstrate the prerequisite mental faculties for being either of the two.
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#142 - 2015-08-19 01:44:01 UTC
I am curious about something.


Why has CCP decided that the minimum barrier to entry as a Sov holding entity is a 50 mill, T2 frigate?


Dominion sov was flawed. The investment required to be a player in the Sov game at that time was a massive super fleet, and the logistic acumen of a real life medium sized business. This was absolutely unsustainable and needed to change. I don't think too many people would disagree.

It did have some advantages however. Wars required commitment, both in time and assets. The wars and politics were unlike anything any other game has offered. They were in many ways, EVE's unique selling point. They were the narrative for the history of the game. They gave the game a prestige. That's gone now. You can obtain Sov using an unarmed ship.

To me, contesting sov should be a game of thrones. Sov wars should require commitment to initiate. 50 mill of T2 frigate is not a commitment. My corp, which doesn't live in null, should not have been able to take sov just for yuks.

Dominion had limited life left in it because there were only a finite number of entities that could reasonably contest it. It had to change, but I think it was a mistake to abandon everything learned from it. There is no sense of occasion in fozzie sov. There is no sense of loss when a system changes hands or accomplishment when it is taken. Somewhere, between the obscene commitment of dominion and the laughable execution of fozziesov must be a happy medium.

Bring back the game of thrones. Bring "epic" back.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.

OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#143 - 2015-08-19 01:47:15 UTC
Fozzie.
What if ppl STILL won't come to TAKE the Sov effectively? Because they won't. WHY in the blue hell would you expose yourself to trolling, and spend a LOT of isk too, if you can be the troll, and this for peanuts?
http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
This speaks for itself.
You still think your game is kept alive by 2 trolling small gang runners? Or 2-3 forum yellers? or they are just a convenable way to justify bad decisions/total lack of imagination?
....saw a lot of imbecility in corporate ranks. A great lot. But this batch beats them all. I suppose this is because they had ENOUGH things to destroy. And the corporation owners do not give a **** about it.
Once again: there is absolutely no real reasons to fight except the economical ones. Or trolling ones. EVERYBODY knows Sov is work, and will be actually worser after all this ****. THIS is a GAME, not a JOB.
WE all know you CCP boyz are out of ideeas. Presuming you had some back in time. Ok, HIRE someone able to fix the sandbox. It does cost? Stupidity does cost a lot. CCP lost already more than a good team of Devs does cost. It's already REALLY close to a point of no return, for this game. Every change is fun for exactly 3 days here, like the orthodox wonders. Hallelujah!
LolLolLol
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2015-08-19 01:47:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Alp Khan
Baku Saissore wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Baku Saissore wrote:
i cant believe the whining is still continuing!! You got what you wanted - f1 blobs are back!! with defense multipliers down to 24 minutes max , an attacking fleet doesn't have to worry too much about defenders - just bring a blob.

in particularly whats annoying is the whining re 4k speed limit. Have you never heard of a ceptor? .... you lazy F1 monkeys...


Well, maybe if you actually played this game under sov scenario related PvP fights instead of struggling with your keyboard to spell English words out correctly here, you would have already known that the 4000 m/s is more than enough in any ship equipped with an Entosis link to simply align away from the sov module the moment a hostile pops up in local to break grid (or burn such an amount of distance from the sov structure that any attempt to catch will be futile) and reach complete safety.



Instead of concentrating on my grammar learn how to play this game!!! Get a ceptor and undock instead of hiding behind an FC and press F1 and do check killboards before commenting nonsense. Even a basic ceptor can do over 4 k and even under current rules i caught over 20 entosis ceptors in the last month.

Seriously grow a pair or just quietly press F1 and leave the ones who actually like pvp to get on with it.


And where are those mythical entosis trollceptors that were all successfully caught by the PvP rockstar and god Baku Saissore instead of blasting away to ultimate safety by aligning out the second they saw a hostile pop up in local?

If you are going to lie, at least spend some effort to do so and put some thought in it.
Baku Saissore
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2015-08-19 01:50:51 UTC
[/quote]

And where are those mythical entosis trollceptors that were all successfully caught by the PvP god Baku Saissore instead of blasting away to ultimate safety by aligning out the second they saw a hostile pop up in local?[/quote]

It seems your typing skills extend only as far as pressing F1 goes, so let me give you a helping hand.

https://zkillboard.com/character/94944579/solo/
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#146 - 2015-08-19 01:51:25 UTC
My Lap wrote:
Reagalan wrote:
I'm saying this as nicely as possible. Fozziesov is a broken and fundamentally flawed system. No amount of tweaking will ever make it work as well as either of the two previous sov systems.

...

The only solution to the problems of Fozziesov is to scrap the whole thing, return to Dominion sov, and iterate upon a proven system.


Truer words are seldom spoken as this. I doubt Fozzie will take the time to comment on this but it would be nice.

Only if he comments by showing him a gif of spitting out a glass of milk from laughing so hysterically.

If you though Dominion was good or even "proven" you're playing a different game than the rest of us have been for the past 5 years.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#147 - 2015-08-19 01:56:41 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. With vacation season winding down here in Iceland, we're fast approaching the first release since the Aegis Sovereignty deployment: Galatea on August 25th.

Galatea will contain the first (and definitely not the last) set of updates to the sov capture system released in Aegis, thanks in large part to your excellent feedback and observations we've made of the first few weeks of the new system on Tranquility. This first set of adjustments is focused on the capture times and maximum number of Command Nodes, as well as some tweaks to the Entosis Link penalties itself.

The first and most significant change in this release is that we are reducing the base capture time of Structure Command Nodes from 10 minutes to 4 minutes, and Station Services from 5 minutes to 4 minutes. This means the capture times for these structures will range from a minimum of 4 minutes (for defenders and when the multiplier is at its base of 1) to a maximum of 24 minutes (for attackers against a 6x multiplier structure). This change only applies to Command Nodes and Station Services, NOT to the initial reinforcement of a sov structure (which keep their current base capture time of 10 minutes).

To help ensure that defenders maintain a robust but fair advantage, we are also starting the defending alliance off with 60% control in the overall event tug of war when nodes start spawning. This means that an uncontested defense will now require capture of 8 nodes at 4 minutes (plus warmup) a piece, down from 10x10 before. In total, the fastest possible defense would require 4 players and 12 minutes post-Galatea, compared to 5 players and 24 minutes pre-Galatea.

To help reduce the clutter that builds up in lower value systems when capture events are left for extended periods of time uncontested, we are also reducing the cap on total nodes that can spawn per structure from 20 to 10. We are also reducing the spawn rate of randomly appearing extra nodes by approximately 50% (this second part only applies to the randomly spawning extra nodes, not the the nodes that spawn instantly when old ones are completed).

We are also making an adjustment to the penalties on the Entosis Link module itself. The mass penalty is being replaced with a "speed limit" to 4000m/s. This means that the normal subwarp engines of a ship with an Entosis Link fitted will never accelerate it past 4000m/s. This limit was chosen to have the smallest possible impact on ships fit for engagement and combat while having a larger impact on the escapability of evasion fits than the mass penalty.

We are also releasing the first batch of Sov UI little things, which CCP Punkturis and CCP Sharq sourced from your feedback in this thread. These changes include an overview of sov data in the constellation show-info window, direct access to the default vulnerability timer and a new region column in the sov dashboard and improved tooltips in the infrastructure hub UI. Punkturis is continuing to work on improving the sov UI and we encourage people to keep posting their requests in the little things thread.

Finally this release also contains a number of bug fixes, some of which are quite visible (Alliance logos once again appearing in space on the TCU) and others which improve handling of rare edge cases (such as alliances disbanding mid-fight) and back-end code.

The Galatea is just the beginning of our commitment to iterating and improving nullsec and sov. We are hard at work on the changing coming in future releases, including formal methods for dropping sov, the ability to turn IHub upgrades on and off, updates to the formula for calculating activity defense multipliers, new PVE experiences for sov nullsec and much more. Nullsec and Sov remain our focus here at Team Five 0 and we'll be continuing to update you on progress as we go forward. We are listening to your feedback and continuing to observe the results of our changes as we make them.

These Galatea changes will also obviously not be the final changes to the capture mechanics themselves. We have some changes we know we want to make (like partially captured structures returning to defender control at a slow constant regeneration pace to reduce the need for "maintenance linking") and others that we don't want to rule out but that also need more investigation and internal/external discussion before making final decisions (such as ship restrictions on Entosis Links). Thanks to everyone who's been providing constructive feedback so far, we hope you'll continue.

Thanks everyone, and good hunting!



YAY!!!! A whole fleet of 4 to capture Sov! Massive Multiplayer Game.. Officially Nerfed.. EVE Online Officially Minimal Multiplayer Online Game... A new Classification for the RPG Genre. At least I can stop bringing friends into the game now. Small corp is nuff to take sov, why bring more! Thanks Fozzie Sov... Taking the Massive out of Multiplayer since his start
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2015-08-19 01:56:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Alp Khan
Baku Saissore wrote:
It seems your typing skills extend only as far as pressing F1 goes, so let me give you a helping hand.



Forgive me because it seems that I've made a grave mistake by assuming that you could count properly. It is all very clear to me that you can't do that either, because there aren't "more than 20 entosis trollceptor killmails" on your KB as you have previously claimed. Please enlighten us on what other basic tasks you aren't able to conduct successfully.

Now that we have established without a doubt that you can't effectively count as well as being unable to spell out English words correctly, I would like you to take the helping hand you've kindly offered before and put it to certain other uses.

The best one would be using your fingers to help you count. If you use all your fingers on your hands in two sets, you'll be able to count up to a staggering high of 20.

You're welcome.
Lincoln Fleet
No Pulse Holdings
Flatline.
#149 - 2015-08-19 01:57:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lincoln Fleet
A nice try, but you're not really fixing the true problems. Aegis sov creates a situation where the attacker can aggravate and disrupt the current sov holder with little-to-no risk, which not only weaponizes boredom but opens the door to trolling attacks that have no intention of actually taking part in the sov system. This massive source of annoyance and disruption makes the ownership of sov space more of a burden than a boon to those who truly want to take part in the system. The result is that sov alliances feel less like they own something meaningful and more like a sad carnival worker sitting on the break-away seat above a tank of water, getting dunked by every little snot-headed kid that has 25 cents and a taste for human suffering.

The lone entosis-fitted interceptor is a nearly unstoppable scourge. Even at 4km/s it is highly effective because of its size, agility and nullification, and its existence prevents the Aegis sov system from achieving its goals. Modifying the time that someone has to orbit the structure is also pointless, especially considering that one of the stated purposes of the new system is to reduce time spent shooting structures.

Instead, what if an increased system level meant that multiple entosis links were needed to attack a structure? If someone really wants to attack a "well defended" sov system at least make them bring a fleet. Not only does this give the defender a better chance to actually defend but it requires some basic coordination from the attackers, which (hopefully) would be enough of a barrier-to-entry to deter a large portion of the trolls whose only goal is to create boring, meaningless tasks for the owners.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#150 - 2015-08-19 02:01:51 UTC
The only thing proven about Dominion is that it's been slowly but surely killing EVE's fun and subscriber count since launch.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

Baku Saissore
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2015-08-19 02:04:18 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Baku Saissore wrote:


And where are those mythical entosis trollceptors that were all successfully caught by the PvP god Baku Saissore instead of blasting away to ultimate safety by aligning out the second they saw a hostile pop up in local?


It seems your typing skills extend only as far as pressing F1 goes, so let me give you a helping hand.

https://zkillboard.com/character/94944579/solo/ [/quote]

Forgive me because it seems I made a grave mistake by assuming you could count properly. It is all very clear to me that you can't do that either, because there aren't "more than 20 entosis trollceptor killmails" on your KB as you have previously claimed. Please enlighten us on what other basic tasks you aren't able to conduct successfully.[/quote]

seriously it's getting pathetic now... you are unable to look through zkillboard and want me to prove something thats on there in black and white? :) I linked the solo killboard to help your F1 mind understand things better but it seems you cant master anything beyond a singular click or press of a button ( the button being F1 ofcourse).

a hint - there is more than one tab on that website, so dont be scared, click it and have a look. Make sure you dont press F1, i know it's hard but please try as it is likely you will learn something new about this game. if you follow my instructions.
Marech Bhayanaka
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#152 - 2015-08-19 02:05:23 UTC
dancing ninja wrote:

I would still like to see some kind of spreading system index. If you max the index in your system the extra mining/ratting/sov should spread to a nearby system you control. Have it spread with a exponential loss so that it only goes 2-3 systems. It fixes the problem of trolls hitting the systems that you use often but cant safely rat/mine in because of location or low true sec.


If this helps sov holders to control 5 or 10 systems for every one they rat and mine in, then it is pretty much contrary to the whole point of recent changes, isn't it?

Marech.
Amy Garzan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2015-08-19 02:05:27 UTC
Wilhelm Knicklicht wrote:
Reagalan wrote:
Fozziesov is not engaging for the average fleet member, who has to wait around while the magical sov hackers do all the work. Under Dominion sov, your average fleet member got to contribute via DPS, and at least got killmails at the end.


TL;DR: fozziesov not attractive for the average goon member who just wants to get fleetwarped and press F1.

system working as intended.


News for CCP (and you since you cant think). When Goons and the Imperium make up one of the largest player blocks, and we all quit, whos paying the bills?

Think that over.
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#154 - 2015-08-19 02:06:17 UTC
I would like to have an honest answer on how under the new system a fight of over 500 people would take place? I am not talking over a POS I am talking about structures there will never be a massive fight in eve if the current system is kept as it is.
Athryn Bellee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#155 - 2015-08-19 02:08:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Athryn Bellee
Are there any plans to the indefinitely long timers that the current system creates if no one shows up after a structure has been reinforced? There are currently timers for structures from July 27 still.

http://timerboard.net
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2015-08-19 02:09:56 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Entosis active should reduce speed to ZERO. DOUBLE the mass.

Reduce number of control nodes further, they are still AIDS.

Also, this. With the new 'local' model in null and requisite defensive posture of entities to hold what they take, a much needed content-generating land-rush of new entrants won't happen until the elephant in the room of 72% calling hisec home is addressed substantively It's time.

F


Good suggestions overall. Would stop trolling and ensure some amount of actual commitment to the sov events.
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#157 - 2015-08-19 02:11:10 UTC
Marech Bhayanaka wrote:
dancing ninja wrote:

I would still like to see some kind of spreading system index. If you max the index in your system the extra mining/ratting/sov should spread to a nearby system you control. Have it spread with a exponential loss so that it only goes 2-3 systems. It fixes the problem of trolls hitting the systems that you use often but cant safely rat/mine in because of location or low true sec.


If this helps sov holders to control 5 or 10 systems for every one they rat and mine in, then it is pretty much contrary to the whole point of recent changes, isn't it?

Marech.


While I agree with what you are saying the idea would also cause conflict as if the influence from your neighbors next door were effecting your system on a daily basis then there might be fights that pop up to bring it back down.

Imagine if you are living next to a blue neighbor that lives the next system from you but they are using their system more then you are so they start to turn of features of your IHUB or get a portion of the taxes generated by your system. After a time you are going to get fed up and either move or do something to effect the neighboring system to bring it back down to a level where it is not cutting into your "profit"
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#158 - 2015-08-19 02:11:14 UTC
Amy Garzan wrote:
News for CCP (and you since you cant think). When Goons and the Imperium make up one of the largest player blocks, and we all quit, whos paying the bills?

Think that over.


Why, the unwashed masses of pubbies, free from the threat of goon imperialism will bubble out of highsec in their officer fit incursion ships to take up all the space left behind. Not only that, they'll invite all of their friends to join the game and mine and rat their little pigeon brains out with them! It'll save EVE!



Roll

Whole Squid: Get Inked.

Star Bellatrix
Harmony Industries
#159 - 2015-08-19 02:14:15 UTC
Fredric Wolf wrote:
I would like to have an honest answer on how under the new system a fight of over 500 people would take place? I am not talking over a POS I am talking about structures there will never be a massive fight in eve if the current system is kept as it is.



The problem with people fighting for space has nothing to do with the mechanics.
the mechanics are only there to judge who actually owns the system (or the grid).

Conflict drivers are a different issue that ccp needs to address at some point.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2015-08-19 02:15:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Alp Khan
MASSADEATH wrote:
Reagalan wrote:
Won't do jack **** to a system that is fundamentally and critically flawed and unsalvageable.

Until you get off of this "small gang" and "local conflict" soapbox the decline of Eve will continue. We didn't sign up for small gang impermanent bullshit and we detest your attempts to force this playstyle upon us.



More goon BLOB ...

just as we start actually taking CFC systems... we have 3 under control now
Y-C3EQ
7RM-N0
GA-P6C

the biggest advantage we have SPEED is taken away.... so they can just roll BLOBS onto the grid. BLOB BLOB BLOB.... back to n+1 fighting


Instead of MOA whining ...we are going to ADAPT (like the big blocs should do) and try our best.


IMO however this is a mistake , only a few weeks of this system has been in place and its already being changed to suit the power bloc whiners.


You mean you will send out in game evemails to your pilots, instructing them to just sov troll and avoid fights while doing entosis runs? I'm looking forward to read your posts when the ability to avoid fights on sov offensives is curbstomped.

Not to mention your own forum posts advising to avoid entosis fights at all in MoA forums, but hey, please do continue to act and pretend as if MoA is able to do actual PvP here, it's our pride and joy and we actually do enjoy good comedy.

(We also don't use ratting ships and industrials as our strategic PvP doctrines, so you will find that you are unable to function just as you weren't able to before and get wiped out of the grid -that is if you aren't able to run away the moment your scout tells you about an incoming Goon fleet several jumps away -)