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Dev blog: I feel safe in Citadel city

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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#61 - 2015-08-13 17:45:43 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Urziel99 wrote:
Looks good overall. I would rather have limited choice for where the assets end up. I.e. If we lose a Citadel in Vale we can choose any lowsec station in the nearest constellation for asset packages containing capitals Pilots without restricted items could select a highsec station in the same or adjacent constellation. If the location where the asset will end up is known then the attackers will be able to hellcamp the station where they know the assets will end up.

This prevents heavy abuse (having assets from Branch, for example get magically sent to Aridia.) but provides enough security to not have defacto lost the assets due to camps.


This is a good point, however we are also very concerned with players abusing this as an asset delivery system especially in high / low sec. So having any amount of choice creates different problems for us.

Having said that we'll have a think about this some more. Thanks.


Please keep it the way it is - until players figure out a way to break it. Then change it. Don't give players the option to abuse it right up front.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#62 - 2015-08-13 17:46:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Axhind
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Kel hound wrote:
So what I'm getting from this is; never log off docked in a citadel when you have expensive implants, use a cloaky scanning interceptor instead. Got it.


This is a really good point and one we discussed. In general we don't like the idea of design that have annoying workarounds like this.

So if the structure explodes you would rather log back in space in your pod?

EDIT: Far away from the original location so you don't get camped



I would rather that as it saves my implants on the other hand I don't think that should be the case. By podding people and moving them to another place it gives the tactical victory more power as it's hard for them to recover than if everyone shows up in pods in the system.

The system sounds real good but I do have some remarks:


  • Let people with assets in null and low sec have a pick of a few stations (pick a station in the closest constellation) to avoid insta camps (although with 5+ days delay I don't see that as being a huge issue)
  • I feel that 10% is a bit too much. Think it would be better to trade lower cost for longer lock down time.
  • There needs to be a way to fight NPC outposts/stations. All this talk about risk goes away if you can just park everything in the NPC station and laugh at all your enemies.


PS: Thank god for being able to dock the coffins :)
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#63 - 2015-08-13 17:47:53 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Lim Yoona wrote:
What about existing NPC stations in 0.0 right now? WIll those be able to be destroyed too?


No plans to change NPC stations at the moment. We are considering at some point (far into the future) that we will make player built outposts destructible, but its so far away we don't have to worry about the details of that just yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hen92QFrDUo#t=38m47s


Good. Please don't change NPC stations. On the other hand, please speed up the process of making player built outposts destructible. The sooner the better.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#64 - 2015-08-13 17:49:02 UTC
So not only do the contents of a citadel get magically teleported to a station, but at any point during the whole attack process the owner can just unanchor the thing, pick it up and leave?

That's terrible, not only do you have to screw around with the incredibly tedious entosis mechanics multiple times to accomplish anything at all, but you get nothing but an empty structure kill for your effort and the owner can take the thing down whenever they want.

That's worse than current POS mechanics by an pretty big margin.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#65 - 2015-08-13 17:49:34 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Kel hound wrote:
So what I'm getting from this is; never log off docked in a citadel when you have expensive implants, use a cloaky scanning interceptor instead. Got it.


This is a really good point and one we discussed. In general we don't like the idea of design that have annoying workarounds like this.

So if the structure explodes you would rather log back in space in your pod?

EDIT: Far away from the original location so you don't get camped


Yes. Getting podded while you are logged off is a terrible idea.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Hendrink Collie
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2015-08-13 17:51:55 UTC
Tuzy Naranek wrote:
Can we PLEASE get an answer to how current stations/upgrades will be reimbursed for those of us that have spent years dropping stations and upgrading them in our space? Aegis simply destroyed many billions isk with of IHUBs in our space with no compensation what-so-ever. Because it only really affected Goons (because we were the only people using dual IHUBs in many of our systems), and the attitude towards Goons and other nullsec power blocks from Team Five O is generally condescending and hostile, no move was made to compensate us for IHUBs. If it was an issue that affected all of nullsec equally, I'm sure they would have had a plan to appease everyone, but since it only affected us they barely even acknowledged that it was an issue for anyone and refused to address the issue.

I get that a lot of CCP devs hate us, but you need to be a little less obvious about it when your usual passive aggressiveness boils over into obviousness.



I would assume they are gathering feed back about current stations/upgrades. I wonder if it would work to turn those outpost INTO XL citadels once the patch releases? Seems to be the best way about it to me. Is there a way to exploit that? I can't think of any, but we are a sneaky group. Cool

As for the extra IHUBs.... meh? What is that, like .1% of goon assets? Yeah it sucks, but it seems like split milk to me. Still should have been some compensation obviously, but perhaps they were worried about it getting gamed somehow?
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#67 - 2015-08-13 17:52:12 UTC
Tuzy Naranek wrote:
Can we PLEASE get an answer to how current stations/upgrades will be reimbursed for those of us that have spent years dropping stations and upgrading them in our space? Aegis simply destroyed many billions isk with of IHUBs in our space with no compensation what-so-ever. Because it only really affected Goons (because we were the only people using dual IHUBs in many of our systems), and the attitude towards Goons and other nullsec power blocks from Team Five O is generally condescending and hostile, no move was made to compensate us for IHUBs. If it was an issue that affected all of nullsec equally, I'm sure they would have had a plan to appease everyone, but since it only affected us they barely even acknowledged that it was an issue for anyone and refused to address the issue.

I get that a lot of CCP devs hate us, but you need to be a little less obvious about it when your usual passive aggressiveness boils over into obviousness.


We honestly don't have any answers for you today other than to say you will be reimbursed at some stage for existing POS and Outpost. When we have that figured out we'll let you know.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
Hendrink Collie
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2015-08-13 17:52:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Hendrink Collie
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So not only do the contents of a citadel get magically teleported to a station, but at any point during the whole attack process the owner can just unanchor the thing, pick it up and leave?

That's terrible, not only do you have to screw around with the incredibly tedious entosis mechanics multiple times to accomplish anything at all, but you get nothing but an empty structure kill for your effort and the owner can take the thing down whenever they want.

That's worse than current POS mechanics by an pretty big margin.


The owner has to repair the structure via entosis first, I believe. So for example, if you don't show for the third timer they can rep it up BEFORE folding up shop.
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#69 - 2015-08-13 17:53:43 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So not only do the contents of a citadel get magically teleported to a station, but at any point during the whole attack process the owner can just unanchor the thing, pick it up and leave?.


No they cannot unanchor it while reinforced, they would have to successfully defend it first. However they can remove their personal assets if they wish.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
Challus Mercer
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2015-08-13 17:54:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Challus Mercer
Me and lot of other people have concerns about the fact that characters will be poded after destruction of the citadel. While it sounds really cool in fact it will force players to undock in an inty and warp to safe spot before logging out. In this way the pod can be easily saved. Thats why i think the best solution is to not pod the characters and instead just eject all pods to random spots in the system so that players can login safely and decide what to do next: selfdistruct or fly away and save the pod. You can even tie this feature to a special enmergency module that can be fitted to the citadel.

All other descibed mechanics sound reasonable and interesting. Thank you for the devbogBig smile
Hendrink Collie
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2015-08-13 17:56:00 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So not only do the contents of a citadel get magically teleported to a station, but at any point during the whole attack process the owner can just unanchor the thing, pick it up and leave?.


No they cannot unanchor it while reinforced, they would have to successfully defend it first. However they can remove their personal assets if they wish.


Woo, I guessed right. Pirate
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#72 - 2015-08-13 17:56:36 UTC
I like the ISK sink for recovering your goods from an NPC station. 10% sounds about right as straight up loss to NPC's.

As a way to reward the successful attacker, you should consider raising the recovery percentage to 20%. Have 10% go to the NPC faction as ISK sink and 10% go to the alliance that destroyed your structure.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Current Habit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2015-08-13 17:56:47 UTC
Can we have Jump Clones in the Citadels?

If yes, are the clones (and their implants) also magically moved to the nearest LS station (so nobody has to risk anything ever)?
Sabastian Cerabiam
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#74 - 2015-08-13 17:56:48 UTC
I am more worried about the release timeline then compensation. I'm sure there is plenty of individuals/corps/alliances that are expanding and looking to drop stations/pos's. Anyone that is smart is holding off doing this but that has drawbacks as well.
Tuzy Naranek
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#75 - 2015-08-13 17:57:43 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Tuzy Naranek wrote:
Can we PLEASE get an answer to how current stations/upgrades will be reimbursed for those of us that have spent years dropping stations and upgrading them in our space? Aegis simply destroyed many billions isk with of IHUBs in our space with no compensation what-so-ever. Because it only really affected Goons (because we were the only people using dual IHUBs in many of our systems), and the attitude towards Goons and other nullsec power blocks from Team Five O is generally condescending and hostile, no move was made to compensate us for IHUBs. If it was an issue that affected all of nullsec equally, I'm sure they would have had a plan to appease everyone, but since it only affected us they barely even acknowledged that it was an issue for anyone and refused to address the issue.

I get that a lot of CCP devs hate us, but you need to be a little less obvious about it when your usual passive aggressiveness boils over into obviousness.


We honestly don't have any answers for you today other than to say you will be reimbursed at some stage for existing POS and Outpost. When we have that figured out we'll let you know.



Thank you. That you acknowledge that this is something that needs to happen is a big relief. I appreciate the answer.
Aker Krane
OMEGADYNE LABS
Rising Darkness
#76 - 2015-08-13 18:00:31 UTC
One of the more interesting suggestions I heard was that stuff should deorbit to a planet or moon in that system.
You could reclaim it like you are proposing-- having to have an equivalent structure in place.
or
You could hire Dust Mercs to go get it for you.

You can designate any station for its return. (Capitals/Supers etc restrictions apply of course)

You would lose x% of value or volume for each failed attempt.

Would be very interesting to see how lucrative some of those contracts got for jobs you knew had to get done right.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#77 - 2015-08-13 18:02:16 UTC
So CCP choose to ignore wormholes - Again.

Could You please tell me WHY would a WH group choose to attack another WH??? Main recompensation for booooring weekend was phat loot, and its gone (dont even mention the petty drop of minerals - few billion tops).

If that players want loot they dont get it, if they want to evict someone they will just comes back week later with new citadel and regain all lost stuff and essentially rebuild with a click of a button.

So not only the time it takes to take down structures huuugly increased (with balanced timeslots - 6hour per day - XL structure will be destroyed after almost a week when second reinforcment will end) WH will became stangant farmville where everyone farms because they will fill invulnerable. their assets will be safe unless someone else will move in and decide to stay in system.

And im not talking about attacking small entity, Im talking about attacking large one in both sides prime time.

So instead of one weekend op we end up with a week long deployment with no reward for it.

Can we have a WH Citadel roundtable/townhall or something so we can discuss this? No promise that it wont end up just like FozzieSov roundtable few days ago :P

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Fifth Blade
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
#78 - 2015-08-13 18:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Fifth Blade
Question - What happens to jump clones in a citadel that is destroyed? Are they lost like a docked pod?
To clarify; If you have a clone + pod in the same Citadel, will you lose both?
Lycus Emyr
Doomheim
#79 - 2015-08-13 18:08:59 UTC
could we make it where like 5% of the players goods drop? that way there is a bit of a hit for not defending and a larger reward for attacking. Also I like the idea of convoys moving the goods,and would love to see that (maybe drop that 5% or so into convoys and have them move to HS so the attackers can hunt them down and get them or the defenders can protect that last bit of goods.
Cynica Deetric
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#80 - 2015-08-13 18:17:00 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
So CCP choose to ignore wormholes - Again.

Could You please tell me WHY would a WH group choose to attack another WH??? Main recompensation for booooring weekend was phat loot, and its gone (dont even mention the petty drop of minerals - few billion tops).

If that players want loot they dont get it, if they want to evict someone they will just comes back week later with new citadel and regain all lost stuff and essentially rebuild with a click of a button.

So not only the time it takes to take down structures huuugly increased (with balanced timeslots - 6hour per day - XL structure will be destroyed after almost a week when second reinforcment will end) WH will became stangant farmville where everyone farms because they will fill invulnerable. their assets will be safe unless someone else will move in and decide to stay in system.

And im not talking about attacking small entity, Im talking about attacking large one in both sides prime time.

So instead of one weekend op we end up with a week long deployment with no reward for it.

Can we have a WH Citadel roundtable/townhall or something so we can discuss this? No promise that it wont end up just like FozzieSov roundtable few days ago :P


The more poeple in WH space = more targets for pvp. The more isk poeple have the more isk stupid poeple will put onto their ships because purple is better rite?