Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Pretty much exactly that. There are ways to cheat yourself out of SP, but your gain is directly related to the time subbed. Any other MMO I can think of whether sub (i.e. WoW and whichever game it's going to grind into F2P next) or not either ties your power level to the time spent actively playing, or simply starts you off at or near the cap.

Which isn't to say that SP is the only way to gain power. Higher meta modules, drugs, links, friends or corp backup can all assist. SP is just special in how it doles out the advantages it gives.

A lot of people here say that getting rid of skills is stupid, because this would apparently lead to a deluge of cyno alts/Catalyst alts/Titans and Supercarriers living together.

I say that
A) that's bullshit.
B) A better way to get the depth that people pretend the SP system has would be to reverse the more commonly supported idea of dumping attributes and keeping skills.

Keep attributes, and have them modify how your skills behave. Instead of training Acceleration Control for your propulsion, remap/implant/whatever to boost the relevant attribute. Create some actual tradeoffs where being good at something comes at the cost of something else, instead of just knowing you'll be good at everything... eventually.

I could have seen this argument, but with the change to Jump clones...not buying it so much anymore.

Go get your +4s, then get a few Jump Clones. Want to PvP, jump out of your learning clone and go to it. When you are done, jump back into your learning clone and rack up the SP.

Don't be daft, that was entirely the point of the OP.

Problem is it will also help out the older players, possibly even more. They know the game far, far better. For example, while my main sucks at invention, manufacturing, etc. I do know how it works as I have some alts who I have alternated at training. Take away skills and SP and I will be able to enter any market. And with my understanding of invention, manufacturing, etc. I'll always out do the new players. Further, I already have a nice inventory of BPOs and BPCs already researched. So yes, technically the new guy could do just as well as I do...when he gets the BPOs, the BPCs and figures out how it all works.

your arguement with corraidhin's anecdote was superfluous to the discussion, hinging on whether the person he was aiding needed or wanted the help. If i'm grinding for standing the isk is trivial.

Now as to having everyone being a max skilled clone, why bother having a persistent universe in the first place. Just turn it into an arcade game, you have just eliminated the value of a name and reputation. Big parts of eve. I rely partially on non perfect skills of my enemies to get past blockades in haulers. I rely on having that extra bit givin to me by a rapidly gained jury rigging skill to give me the t2 rigs. sometimes i rely on the "oh its him, don't bother, watch for others" part of my reputation. it does happen.

Other points reiterated: why not go further and get rid of isk, manufacturing, mining. all are impediments of newbro's getting into PVP for not all are combat choices.

lets turn the entire game into a flavor of the moment, graphically outdated, no rewards for progression, a deluge of options for people that never had to get slowly used to things.

Why should i teach people to use anything when they are fair game, max skills and in a brand new super poorly fitted bling ship?
Massive battles? where would you find the flash in the pan newbros willing to put up with max tidi?
Bittervets would leave in droves, alot of hard work, waiting and gratification evaporated with a single stroke.

Eve's eternal september. yeah, I'm old, and have seen what your idea comes to time and time again: ruination.

suicide tackle is one of the most paying jobs a newbie can do in this game and gets plenty of praise as no one likes to die.

It can be the best isk in the game.

A FC will never turn down anyone for fleets.


If those 3 day old atrons like tackling things (not all die the moment they tackle something) then they can spend the next month getting skills that help them with tackling in the atron while working towards the ares.

So the problem is not skills but the NPE is problamatic because some players tell newbies that they have to skill for a T2 fitted T3 cruiser instead of giving them decent advice.

A rookie who doesn't know what they are doing is going to last a lot longer in L2 missions flying a battleship than a destroyer. They just add one or two battleship sized local tank modules, some cruiser-sized offensive modules and whittle the enemies down in a war of attrition. The battleship has the advantage over a "more suitable" ship in terms of HP, capacitor, targeting range, and sheer firepower.

Learning basic gameplay in a single 100M ISK rookie ship vs making 50 mistakes in 2M ISK "properly fitted" ships? The freedom from fitting tedium alone is worth the investment. All the while the rookie is learning, "I can solve my problems by throwing more ISK into the bucket while waiting for this year long skill queue."

Take away skill points and the decisions come down to travel time, ability to manage local tank or buffer, knowledge of overheating, traversal, range dictation, and optimum damage types.

Which skills do you want rookies learning?

Since when you considered BS for lvl2's? It would be restricted anyway.

quantity doesn't't mean quality