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Crime & Punishment

 
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HighSec Ganking and Appropriate Punishment
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Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#221 - 2015-07-22 08:22:31 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I'm suggesting that knocking down an industrial ship is more competence than the indy player is showing. The better player won, and that's what upsets you the most.
Whichever way you swing it, it's still you being a carebear, picking only the easy mode gameplay.


Remember kids, neg ten is "easy mode". Roll


im not neg 10 but i still get chased in highsec, and trying to get a kill in highsec while being chased is not easy at all, so if anyone says its not skill then they are wrong and clearly dont understand the concept of being on a death timer and having to coordinate perfectly to be effective

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Lady Areola Fappington
#222 - 2015-07-22 09:00:46 UTC
So, which side of the cognitive dissonance pendulum are we on today?

Ganking is such an immensely powerful activity it requires more nerfing (thereby proving how wildly effective groups like CODE are).

OR

Ganking is worthless scrub behaviour that has no impact on Eve at all (thereby establishing that ganking needs massive buffs to be on par with other Eve professions)

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#223 - 2015-07-22 09:22:23 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I'm suggesting that knocking down an industrial ship is more competence than the indy player is showing. The better player won, and that's what upsets you the most.
Whichever way you swing it, it's still you being a carebear, picking only the easy mode gameplay.
Remember kids, neg ten is "easy mode". Roll
lol, yes, having a neg ten alt in disposable ships shooting targets that stand no chance is in fact easy mode.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lady Areola Fappington
#224 - 2015-07-22 09:41:52 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I'm suggesting that knocking down an industrial ship is more competence than the indy player is showing. The better player won, and that's what upsets you the most.
Whichever way you swing it, it's still you being a carebear, picking only the easy mode gameplay.
Remember kids, neg ten is "easy mode". Roll
lol, yes, having a neg ten alt in disposable ships shooting targets that stand no chance is in fact easy mode.



In that case, any use of alts in Eve is "EZ Mode".

Salvager alt after running lvl4's, EZ mode, you should be doing that on your main.
Cyno alt for your carrier, EZ Mode, you should be getting a corpmate to light that for you
Hauler alt for mining ops, EZ Mode even more, you should be hauling those loads back in your mining ship, or getting a buddy to haul for you.


Just remember kids, using alts to mitigate the effects of bad sec status is contemptuous and should be mocked. Using alts to mindlessly hoover up ISK in PVE activities is smart game play.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#225 - 2015-07-22 10:06:01 UTC
In most cases, yes, that is easy mode, you have no argument from me there. I'm not claiming that a lot of PvE isn't easymode either. I'm not even claiming I don't do the same (I do, I have a gank alt that flies with miniluv). I just find it amusing that there's these people hiding in highsec shooting unarmed rookies using cheap disposable ships and they have the nerve to complain about "the carebears" as if what they are doing is any better. Using "but my alt is neg ten" is a terrible excuse for what is effectively carebear PvP.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#226 - 2015-07-22 10:27:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I'm suggesting that knocking down an industrial ship is more competence than the indy player is showing. The better player won, and that's what upsets you the most.
Whichever way you swing it, it's still you being a carebear, picking only the easy mode gameplay.
Remember kids, neg ten is "easy mode". Roll
lol, yes, having a neg ten alt in disposable ships shooting targets that stand no chance is in fact easy mode.


You must really hate mining then. I can't think of an easier mode.

Besides, if you want to tilt the windmills against alts existing, this is the wrong place to do it. Pick which angsty rant you're going with, and stick with it, don't flip/flop all over the place.

[edit: Hells bells, with the three month long bitchfit you pitched about ISBoxer finally being banned, one wonders how you have the gall to call anyone else's way of playing "easy mode"

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#227 - 2015-07-22 11:00:36 UTC
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I don't think you understand what I am getting at, maybe a buff to the Charon in some way, but the thing is that I am not so bothered about the value of the cargo being the determining factor like you suggest, the changes I am thinking of is a buffing of the penalties so that CONCORD blow us anything the ganker is in for 15 minutes period, or have some docking penalties that are meaningful, what it would do is change things slightly. I certainly am not in favour of a typical CCP over the top nerf approach, did you see what they did to the drake... or more importantly to the heavy missiles.

EDIT: I just want to say even though I am opposed to CODE I do respect their sheer organisation and the skill of many of their players, they are skilled and very good at what they do.


Someone mentioned this before, and I addressed it, but I guess you missed it...CONCORD already does blow up anything a GCC player is in for the whole 15 min GCC timer, whether they engage in new criminal activities in that time or not. That's part of what allows hyperdunking to work lol.


Nope after the second ship you can jump into another ship and then can shoot again, thats how hyperdunking works, doh!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#228 - 2015-07-22 11:01:49 UTC
At the end of the day if players have a problem with a player activity they should do something about it. CCP shouldn't have to fix a problem that can be done by a player. NPC's are busy enough they don't need an increased workload.

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#229 - 2015-07-22 11:02:58 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I don't think you understand what I am getting at, maybe a buff to the Charon in some way, but the thing is that I am not so bothered about the value of the cargo being the determining factor like you suggest, the changes I am thinking of is a buffing of the penalties so that CONCORD blow us anything the ganker is in for 15 minutes period, or have some docking penalties that are meaningful, what it would do is change things slightly. I certainly am not in favour of a typical CCP over the top nerf approach, did you see what they did to the drake... or more importantly to the heavy missiles.

EDIT: I just want to say even though I am opposed to CODE I do respect their sheer organisation and the skill of many of their players, they are skilled and very good at what they do.


Someone mentioned this before, and I addressed it, but I guess you missed it...CONCORD already does blow up anything a GCC player is in for the whole 15 min GCC timer, whether they engage in new criminal activities in that time or not. That's part of what allows hyperdunking to work lol.


Nope after the second ship you can jump into another ship and then can shoot again, thats how hyperdunking works, doh!

Concord will still shoot the ship even if it doesn't shoot again.

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Lady Areola Fappington
#230 - 2015-07-22 11:04:42 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
In most cases, yes, that is easy mode, you have no argument from me there. I'm not claiming that a lot of PvE isn't easymode either. I'm not even claiming I don't do the same (I do, I have a gank alt that flies with miniluv). I just find it amusing that there's these people hiding in highsec shooting unarmed rookies using cheap disposable ships and they have the nerve to complain about "the carebears" as if what they are doing is any better. Using "but my alt is neg ten" is a terrible excuse for what is effectively carebear PvP.


I see what you're saying now, thanks.

The whole "X is more difficult than Y" arguments in Eve do tend to get a little silly. You need a different set of skills for ganking than you do for running PVE. Hauling takes different skills than mining. Sure they overlap in places, and you can learn multiple different "roles", but ultimately, I don't really see one playstyle as more or less difficult than another.

Yeah, blapping newbs is pretty easy (and kind of pointless IMHO). Flipside, trying to run an efficient freighter gank for profit setup can be quite hard to pull off. Making a blanket statement of "Ganking is easy lol only scrubs do it" is kind of silly (not that I'm accusing you of saying that).

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#231 - 2015-07-22 11:07:52 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

I don't think you understand what I am getting at, maybe a buff to the Charon in some way, but the thing is that I am not so bothered about the value of the cargo being the determining factor like you suggest, the changes I am thinking of is a buffing of the penalties so that CONCORD blow us anything the ganker is in for 15 minutes period, or have some docking penalties that are meaningful, what it would do is change things slightly. I certainly am not in favour of a typical CCP over the top nerf approach, did you see what they did to the drake... or more importantly to the heavy missiles.

EDIT: I just want to say even though I am opposed to CODE I do respect their sheer organisation and the skill of many of their players, they are skilled and very good at what they do.

It is pretty obvious what you are getting at. You think one more nerf will fix ganking, just like all the carebears before. I just explained to you why this will never work and why it will create even fatter targets for us.

About a year ago they already buffed Freighters. Befor that it was not possible to fit modules on them. Not even a day went by after said buff to potential Freighter EHP one of the biggest tear threads emerged on the forums and the carebears asked for more buffs thinking again one more nerf will fix it. This happens all the time, and all you are doing is monopolizing this kind of stuff for big alliances while at the same time increasing the value of the targets because they feel safer.

Anyway, I feel like I am talking to a wall here, so I will probably just add you to the ignore list like Lukas and not waste any more time with your unreflected calls for that one more nerf.

Btw, wasn't that awoxing nerf going to fix Highsec life?


Block me then, my focus is on the CONCORD derived deterrence, not buffing of freighters and hence their adjustment for cargo value which you started talking about. The simple fact is that the current CONCORD deterrence is not sufficient and needs adjustment, the first is to CONCORD do police that 15 minute GCC. The second is no docking for 15 minutes if you are -10.

whining about people whining about buffing freighters is rather passe, just earlier I told a Charon pilot to train up a Providence or Obelisk and fit resistance plates to it and dump the Charon.

As for defining me a carebear, lol...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#232 - 2015-07-22 11:09:50 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I don't think you understand what I am getting at, maybe a buff to the Charon in some way, but the thing is that I am not so bothered about the value of the cargo being the determining factor like you suggest, the changes I am thinking of is a buffing of the penalties so that CONCORD blow us anything the ganker is in for 15 minutes period, or have some docking penalties that are meaningful, what it would do is change things slightly. I certainly am not in favour of a typical CCP over the top nerf approach, did you see what they did to the drake... or more importantly to the heavy missiles.

EDIT: I just want to say even though I am opposed to CODE I do respect their sheer organisation and the skill of many of their players, they are skilled and very good at what they do.


Someone mentioned this before, and I addressed it, but I guess you missed it...CONCORD already does blow up anything a GCC player is in for the whole 15 min GCC timer, whether they engage in new criminal activities in that time or not. That's part of what allows hyperdunking to work lol.


Nope after the second ship you can jump into another ship and then can shoot again, thats how hyperdunking works, doh!

Concord will still shoot the ship even if it doesn't shoot again.


Well I see the players shoot something, get blown up, jump into a shuttle get blown up, then jump into a catalyst and then shoot something which gets them blown up and so on. Do I believe my lying eyes or the statements here?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#233 - 2015-07-22 11:17:29 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

Well I see the players shoot something, get blown up, jump into a shuttle get blown up, then jump into a catalyst and then shoot something which gets them blown up and so on. Do I believe my lying eyes or the statements here?

highlighted where your own sentence confirmed my point

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#234 - 2015-07-22 11:19:44 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Well I see the players shoot something, get blown up, jump into a shuttle get blown up, then jump into a catalyst and then shoot something which gets them blown up and so on. Do I believe my lying eyes or the statements here?

highlighted where your own sentence confirmed my point


I did say after the second ship loss, so you mis-read what I said.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#235 - 2015-07-22 11:37:25 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Well I see the players shoot something, get blown up, jump into a shuttle get blown up, then jump into a catalyst and then shoot something which gets them blown up and so on. Do I believe my lying eyes or the statements here?

highlighted where your own sentence confirmed my point


I did say after the second ship loss, so you mis-read what I said.


No he didn't, you're just spouting nonsense. You suggested that Concord be "buffed" to shoot anything a criminal flag player flies for 15 minutes.

... but they already do that.

Once again, your ignorance is simply delightful.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#236 - 2015-07-22 11:43:08 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Well I see the players shoot something, get blown up, jump into a shuttle get blown up, then jump into a catalyst and then shoot something which gets them blown up and so on. Do I believe my lying eyes or the statements here?

highlighted where your own sentence confirmed my point


I did say after the second ship loss, so you mis-read what I said.


No he didn't, you're just spouting nonsense. You suggested that Concord be "buffed" to shoot anything a criminal flag player flies for 15 minutes.

... but they already do that.

Once again, your ignorance is simply delightful.


As if I care what you think I said!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Lady Areola Fappington
#237 - 2015-07-22 11:46:15 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Well I see the players shoot something, get blown up, jump into a shuttle get blown up, then jump into a catalyst and then shoot something which gets them blown up and so on. Do I believe my lying eyes or the statements here?

highlighted where your own sentence confirmed my point


I did say after the second ship loss, so you mis-read what I said.



Yeah, I actually gank, so....Yes, during the 15 minute GCC, if you climb into any ship that's in space, or undock in a ship, Concord comes over and blows you up. You don't have to fire another shot.


You're confused about how concord works after the initial GCC timer. Its simple. Ganker shoots ship. Concord arrives, blows ship up. Ganker moves Concord off grid. Ganker boards new ship, concord starts returning. During the return period, ganker shoots target again.

Only the warp jamming effect of GCC is system wide. Guns are not disabled system wide, that depends on Concord arriving and activating the relevant godmode mods on you.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#238 - 2015-07-22 11:46:53 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

As if I care what you think I said!


Dracvlad wrote:
the changes I am thinking of is a buffing of the penalties so that CONCORD blow us anything the ganker is in for 15 minutes


Try harder. Roll

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Alastair Ormand
Mine all the things
#239 - 2015-07-22 12:00:56 UTC
Your measures are far too extreme. Probably the only thing I agree with is the podding (now that clone grades aren't a thing).

I discourage running with scissors.
Lady Areola Fappington
#240 - 2015-07-22 12:28:51 UTC
Alastair Ormand wrote:
Your measures are far too extreme. Probably the only thing I agree with is the podding (now that clone grades aren't a thing).



Even then, if you think about it logically, podding isn't going to be much of a deterrent. The first thing I would do on starting ganking under a "concord pods" system is reset my clone to a station within the system I'm working. We don't have clone costs anymore, so that's out the window as a punishment. If need be, you can do without implants, or just use the cheap ones and figure them into cost of gank.

It'd also make hyperdunking that slight amount easier. Instead of having to pod fly your way off grid to move Concord, you can just let concord pod express you back to station. Undock, pull Concord, then head right back to the gank site to pick up a new Catalyst and get back to work.


People who advocate Concord podding are the perfect example when I say "Gankers aren't playing the same game you are". Sure, for the "normal" dude playing Eve, getting podded is going to hurt. For a ganker, all getting podded means is a faster trip back to station to wait out GCC.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide