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Walking in stations

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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#821 - 2015-07-01 23:36:08 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
No, but they did manage to totally overhaul the way it handled messages, speeding up the game and making Time Dilation possible. It was not a wasted effort, it just fell short of the (admittedly ambitious) mark.
All that came later, after they quit playing with dolls. They have done a lot of work with the Carbon system (as I already said), but back then it was all about Barbie, not the spaceship game. People were friggin fuming, which brought on the reiteration phase eventually (the point I came back). It's not the first time they upgraded the engine, I remember the one before that. But that one, they didn't abandon the spaceship game to make avatars while leaving EVE broken and failing.

CCP now, well, look to things like Legion if you want that avatar play. If that door ever "opens" you'll likely load into another game. Much more realistic long-term plan. I don't think any spaceship game that has used avatars had an easy time with it. Not current mmo games and not past mmo games (e.g. EnB & SWG). CCP had even a harder time doing it, not even reaching the basic interaction as EnB did... which btw was very basic in that regard and never went further, in fact the game wound up being abandoned sadly... for EA Land funding (i.e. what they renamed from SIMS Online) boo. For SWG, the hit was to the spaceship game, delayed release and core game was a very dirty and buggy release due to it, one of the worst mmo launches in history. They had to push spaceships back until the later expansion as having ships and avatars was so complicated they could not launch it together but had to go back and recode it all over again. And because of the technical limitations of the two, spaceship remained sort of meh in that game.

Current games doing this are struggling, especially after they pump out so much hype about it then fail to deliver. But if they study history, maybe they wouldn't repeat those mistakes of promising so much where the norm is technically a very difficult road by example. I think even CCP has come to terms with history at this point, having already been an unfortunate victim of it's own history though.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Commissar Rain
Kesukka
#822 - 2015-07-02 01:15:22 UTC
They just need to get it over with and completely wipe out all traces of avatars from the game.

Member of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
Jenshae Chiroptera
#823 - 2015-07-02 01:54:49 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
... you forget that CCP maintains a version of EVE that runs on a custom version of WINE, ...
CCP don't.
They used to make EVE run on all three operating systems now they focus on Windows and Mac only.
Linux continues through that legacy and player work arounds.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#824 - 2015-07-02 02:54:07 UTC
Commissar Rain wrote:
They just need to get it over with and completely wipe out all traces of avatars from the game.

Well we know they are not going to do that, the avatars are suppose to be part of some bridge between games. Also AUR sales for apparel I think is sufficient to maintain the existing avatar system how it is. Oh wait, sorry, I know, it's about the tears Blink
Yup! Couldn't agree moar, get rid of 'em!!

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#825 - 2015-07-02 10:36:16 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
... you forget that CCP maintains a version of EVE that runs on a custom version of WINE, ...
CCP don't.
They used to make EVE run on all three operating systems now they focus on Windows and Mac only.
Linux continues through that legacy and player work arounds.

Well officially yes. However unofficially they support stock standard wine pretty well. We very rarely have a problem that is not resolved in under a week. I have had probably a total of 9 days i couldn't log on with stock wine in the almost 3 years of playing eve.

I suspect at least a few devs use wine. Since i havn't used windows for 10 years and won't buy a mac, if wine stops working i will be unlikely to keep playing. If that is some lame WiS dependency for some second life irrelevant game play. Doubly so on not subbing.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#826 - 2015-07-03 09:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
... you forget that CCP maintains a version of EVE that runs on a custom version of WINE, ...
CCP don't.
They used to make EVE run on all three operating systems now they focus on Windows and Mac only.
Linux continues through that legacy and player work arounds.
Well officially yes. However unofficially they support stock standard wine pretty well. We very rarely have a problem that is not resolved in under a week. I have had probably a total of 9 days i couldn't log on with stock wine in the almost 3 years of playing eve.
EVE used to run natively on Linux

I feel that the timing was poor luck. The Linux gaming community is burgeoning. More and more people are using the OS because there is such mouse happy, user friendly flavours such as Ubuntu.

When Valve converted their games to run natively on Linux, they discovered that all this time Nvidia had a hardware fault and DirectX was working around it. As a result this caused a lot of graphical problems with ATI / AMD cards.
They also found that their games run far, far better on Linux now.

So, I wonder ... would some work in Linux maybe uncover better ways to render our avatars so that a number of them can be rendered without melting the average user's graphic's card?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#827 - 2015-07-03 09:51:50 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
... you forget that CCP maintains a version of EVE that runs on a custom version of WINE, ...
CCP don't.
They used to make EVE run on all three operating systems now they focus on Windows and Mac only.
Linux continues through that legacy and player work arounds.
Well officially yes. However unofficially they support stock standard wine pretty well. We very rarely have a problem that is not resolved in under a week. I have had probably a total of 9 days i couldn't log on with stock wine in the almost 3 years of playing eve.
EVE used to run natively on Linux

I feel that the timing was poor luck. The Linux gaming community is burgeoning. More and more people are using the OS because there is such mouse happy, user friendly flavours such as Ubuntu.

When Valve converted their games to run natively on Linux, they discovered that all this time Nvidia had a hardware fault and DirectX was working around it. As a result this caused a lot of graphical problems with ATI / AMD cards.
They also found that their games run far, far better on Linux now.

So, I wonder ... would some work in Linux maybe uncover better ways to render our avatars so that a number of them can be rendered without melting the average user's graphic's card?

Like using OpenGL instead? Lol

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Jenshae Chiroptera
#828 - 2015-07-03 11:09:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Like using OpenGL instead? Lol
Is suspect you are teasing. However,
Quote:
... if the programmer's codepath was different from that anticipated by the driver maker, the code would have fallen back to software rendering, causing a substantial performance drop. However, widespread support for the "frame buffer objects" extension, which provided an OpenGL equivalent of the Direct3D method, successfully addressed this shortcoming, and the "render target" feature of OpenGL brought OpenGL up to par with Direct3D in this respect.
Personally, I would go for OpenGL because I support operating system independence.
(One reason that I love Wurm Online is that it is done in Java and can run on almost anything)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#829 - 2015-07-03 11:23:55 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Like using OpenGL instead? Lol
Is suspect you are teasing. However,
Quote:
... if the programmer's codepath was different from that anticipated by the driver maker, the code would have fallen back to software rendering, causing a substantial performance drop. However, widespread support for the "frame buffer objects" extension, which provided an OpenGL equivalent of the Direct3D method, successfully addressed this shortcoming, and the "render target" feature of OpenGL brought OpenGL up to par with Direct3D in this respect.
Personally, I would go for OpenGL because I support operating system independence.
(One reason that I love Wurm Online is that it is done in Java and can run on almost anything)
No, I'm not teasing. OpenGL simply is the better choice for many reasons, including compatability, features and ease-of-use.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Jenshae Chiroptera
#830 - 2015-07-03 15:51:22 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
... No, I'm not teasing. OpenGL simply is the better choice for many reasons, including compatability, features and ease-of-use.
+1
Now the important question:
Would it render mammaries better for young newbies? P

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Raven Null
Brethren Sons
#831 - 2015-07-22 03:40:10 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
We raised a riot, shot up the Jita monument and convinced CCP to drop development of non-space content in favour of fixing existing issues and reiterating on abandoned features.

It's a little more complicated than that.

The rundown...

- CCP spent more than a year developing it
- While developing it, CCP basically ignored a whole bunch of "little" problems and imbalances throughout the game
- the half-joking phrase "in 18 months" was coined from the above points (because that was how long we were told before CCP would get back to working on "other things")
- CCP kept praising and hyping up WiS (Walking in Station)
- Everyone hated the Dramiel.

- The Captain's Quarters was finally released.
------ We got one room (Minmatar) and no access to the rest of the station (because no content had actually been made).
------ It was both buggy and a major resource hog (some video cards overheated)
------ The Captain's Quarters was "not optional." In fact... the original station view was removed entirely. If you disabled the Captains Quarters you would be given a static image of your ship in the hanger (see: no station spinning).
------ The Captain's Quarters was revealed mostly to be a R&D thing for the future... and players were all being used as "beta-testers."
- Microtransactions were introduced.
------ The Microtransaction items costed way more than "micro-amounts" (there was a Monocle that costed about $70 USD in PLEX... shirts and pants were no better).
- A DEV leaked an internal newsletter where various other DEVs were discussing "gold ammo" type items (see: items you paid for via microtransactions that would give you tangible boosts in the game).

- Players revolted.
------ The forums were filled with flames and rage and ranting.
------ A "substantial" amount of players threatened to unsubscribe (I think it was 10% of the total playerbase)
------ Players went to Jita and began to shoot at a monument indefinitely to show their discontent.
- CCP stayed stubbornly (and infuriatingly) silent about the whole thing.
------ The CSM was requested by CCP to come to Iceland and talk about the situation.
- When CCP made their first public statement about the whole thing they attempted to rationalize it.
------ Players got angrier.

- CCP acquiesced.
------- An apology was written by CCP's CEO himself (though, there are rumors that it may have been ghostwritten).
------- Players were promised that "gold ammo" type items would never become a thing. Microtransactions would be limited strictly to "vanity" stuff or things that were already available in some form (basically, "lateral benefits")
------- A new hanger view was made... just like the old one.
------- Captains Quarters view was made "optional."
------- CCP promised to refocus their efforts on space related stuff and work on all the "little things" that players had been basically begging for for almost 2 years.
- CCP silently put WiS on the backburner.

- The Crucible Expansion was released 6 months later.
- Players rejoice.
- Many "little" things are fixed and/or polished.
- Some interesting things are introduced (i.e. Attack Battlecruisers)
- Some old favorites were brought back (i.e. engine trails)
- The current ship rebalancing efforts more or less started here.
- Subscriptions hit an all time high (at the time).

- Today...
------ WiS still brings up some bad memories.
------ It probably IS being worked on... somewhere in the background.
------ the biggest problem (that I see) is making it fit into the larger EVE universe without taking away from the space part of it.


tldr; Walking in Station was delayed/shelved due to a whole combination of events (poor planning, poor investments, poor execution, poor public relations) that led to an explosion of frustration among the playerbase (which had been building for some time). People are still sensitive about the whole thing.


Do you think WiS will ever become a thing? I really like the idea and would love to see it one day...
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#832 - 2015-07-22 04:12:18 UTC
It's not going to happen.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#833 - 2015-07-22 04:49:28 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
It didn't happen.

ftfy Smile

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#834 - 2015-07-22 06:50:44 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
It's not going to happen.


PCU rising back from 2007 to 2011 levels is something that's not going to happen neither. Straight

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#835 - 2015-07-22 07:25:26 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It's not going to happen.


PCU rising back from 2007 to 2011 levels is something that's not going to happen neither. Straight


Why don't you post that in the 40 page thread where I claimed it would.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tyler Startide
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#836 - 2015-07-22 07:37:26 UTC
Why do people want this at all? I don't get it.
It doesn't add any form of gameplay and it's just a worse interface than the standard station interface.
It might be nice once to walk around a little bit but after that it's just a fancy, but worse interface that doesn't add anything to the game and takes a lot of resources to develop.
Darth Terona
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#837 - 2015-07-22 08:49:30 UTC
I want

Being a CEO I do a lot of menue cruising and typing. Would be nice to do that from the local pub
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
#838 - 2015-07-22 10:02:42 UTC
Tyler Startide wrote:
Why do people want this at all? I don't get it.
It doesn't add any form of gameplay and it's just a worse interface than the standard station interface.


If the original ideas of casinos and bars would have been implemented it would have added some real new content and opened up new careers. While I don't think a Second Life-like EVE would really have worked, it would at least added another level to the game that it is lacking compared to other games.

I mostly miss an easy version of showing a newbie around. EVE is already rather harsh, and having an avatar to literally hand-hold someone around is a great way to recruit new players.
Sure, once he is in his ship I can make a fleet and warp him around, but what does he learn from that? In other games he gets to WASD around and learns the controls while following my avatar (never mind that there is no relevant content to show then, contrary to "follow me and I show you where you need to kill the rats are"). I cannot hand him weapons or show him how to do something, it's literally me typing "now press F1".

Also when trying to show EVE to friends it usually became really awkward after they created their avatars and were trying to meet up with me. They spent a lot of time and effort to make their characters look like they want, and then they realize it's basically wasted time because no one is going to take the effort to look at them since its a bunch of clicks you have to do and there's no point in it.

IMO CCP should either scrap the CQ completely (AUR sales and clothes be damned) or expand them to something meaningful, if only to remove that awkward moment of "Hey, I told you all the time to just hurry through the generation process and get some skills into your queue!".
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#839 - 2015-07-22 10:04:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Darth Terona wrote:
I want

Being a CEO I do a lot of menue cruising and typing. Would be nice to do that from the local pub

Well maybe you guys should just raise all hell. Like when the jita riots happened and we did. But since less people... maybe all hold hands, sit on your CQ couches and biomass all together. Yeah, that'll send CCP a message, don't mess with WiS development.

Pytria Le'Danness wrote:
I mostly miss an easy version of showing a newbie around.

Yeah! Think of the newbies. Everyone, start holding hands. *flushhhh*
Come on guys, you can do it!

Pytria Le'Danness wrote:
Also when trying to show EVE to friends it usually became really awkward after they created their avatars and were trying to meet up with me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWNaR-rxAic

and no, no "scrap", it's fine in maintenance mode. It'd just screw things up ripping it out.
And what's wrong with SL?? hah

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#840 - 2015-07-22 10:15:00 UTC
Walking In Stations.......

Techincally it wouldnt cause lag to system server if allowed to load like a seperate game.

Those crying about "space barbie" etc, why would you care if some paid CCP to log in and spend a large portion of their time as real merchants, bar owners, playing in actual approved in game gambling instead of 3rd party crap. If those players are paying a sub or plxing up some how.....well CCP would have more revenue for those that spend most of their time in space.

Overall WiS could potentially be the needed requirement for better immersion into the RP side of things, again a chance to bringing in those type of players.

Face it, EvE is a long way from dying off....but I would love WiS, the chance to occasionally walk hallways, visit stores, play a bit of poker or real slot machines, smoking and joking in a social enviorment, and maybe see the occasional shoot out between players or local station security.

Ive played many games like Final Fantasy 7 & 8, the entire line of Elder Scrolls, Phantasy Star, things like that....and besies the actual game value, yes it i thought it was cool both in graphics and immersion.
I'm about to be 40, and i personally feel EvE needs to start being fleshed in more ways than just balancing ships.
We need more ways to entice players of different styles an attitude to keep the revenue coming in.....or well, one day EvE will just close one day with or without warning, CCP will just flip the switch and it will be announced later on the Mittani or some other site why it happened after the fact.

Face it, those like me getting older. The younger generations need flashy. Dust514 maybe a key to getting some involved from the FPS realms.....but i have even heard some of them starting to ask why they can not integrate better with EvE.
CCP most likely should of just not worked on WoD, pfft what a waste. But now they have a chance to invest only in the EvE universe and they should. Us veterans should not be knocking WiS, we should be asking for it, and asking for it to be done right.