Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The flare is ignored when MF1 < MF2. Which normally happens when the target is moving very, very, very slowly.

So the flare is still useful in most cases. But two stacking penalized Rigor I rigs are better-ish than a unstacked (Rigor I + Flare I). They're equal as far as MF2 is concerned, but the rigors are better when/if MF1 kicks in.

=/

On top of actually looking like a bad ass now after it's visual overhaul. Oddly shaped, though it has a menacing look to it...reminds me of a Stormcrow (Clan Hell's Horses would be proud I think).

I agree with you on that sentiment; shorter ranged unguided launchers on boats with built-in projection bonuses could use these to some effect with range in mind, though torpedoes sort of lag behind somewhat. Compared to your example, a Golem out of bastion needs two range scripted MGC 2's and a Large T2 HBT/RFCP combo to push standard and faction torps to just over 60Km, while going into bastion pushes them to about 77Km. Javelin does get up to 92-116Km, while Rage falls about 10Km behind standards both in and out. It's not bad, just not better than Cruises still -- which is its own issue separate from these modules.

Well, a Golem is a bit the odd one out due to its bonuses but look at this: Range for when you need it, application vs short range frigates. This is obviously just PVE but as said there's now more options for HAM kiters in pvp, be it solo or small group.

[Tengu, LVL 4]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN Afterburner II
Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Caldari Navy Kinetic Deflection Field
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst




[Cerberus, lvl 4]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN Afterburner II
Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Hornet II x3

HAMs are awesome, just not for everything (obviously).

Yup. Though, it helps that HML's are pretty terrible, imho. So much to the point that I'll fit lights or rapid lights sooner than HML's on my cruisers. Application from lights are already pretty well set and range is pretty easy to maximize on them. I tried to give HML's a chance again after the 5% damage buff, but I can't really even tell the difference between before and after...they still suck. If CCP is serious about giving HML's some real love, they need to make them apply better so that the damage can stick.

I had hoped that maybe the modules with application scripts would be good enough make up for it; they help, at least a little. But, then again, I'm still faced with the original issue of, "Why this when a TP just works so much better?"

Not true, TP helps whole gang, MGC just you. Now you have gang-wide assist module stronger then module that helps just to you.

To be fair if it's not fleet pvp then the range is basically irrelevant as it's well beyond your effective tackle limits. It's also still 80% effective at 90km alone and can be linked to be improved.

Hell a target painter even helps your drones.

Edit:

TP bonuses:

• Assists everyone on every level - damage, drones, lock time, even bombs.
• Less than half the fitting cost
• Remains >=80% effective before links out to 90km. That's 50% further than HML out the box and about the max effective engagement range of a caracal with a bonus. So really this presents an "issue" for cruise hulls and cerberus.
• Cycle time is not an issue nor is juggling targets because the HML speed is sufficiently low, that the 5 second cycle time of the TP means that effectively being able to miss a cycle is almost irrelevant because it would be so rare.
• As discussed infowar links boost this mod making it massively more effective and at serious ranges
• Fall off/optimal is irrelevant at small scale because you're going to be in range anyway to hold tackle. At the fleet scale...links baby. And also no-one uses missiles in fleets ever.
• Really, NO-ONE uses a missile fleet. Not even the most special of snowflakes.

The MGC....well for tiny targets there's an arguable bonus, however to lose all of the above....no thanks.

I suppose it can also change scripts mid fight so you can shoot further than your lock range. YAY, said no-one ever. People won't be flipping scripts mid fight. Ever. Range scripts would require a build around them, not a swap in combat.

She has something of a point, I have a number of turret ships without TCs or TEs and they do just fine - primarily because of lower caliber weapons (and AC tracking ammo) which missiles cannot do (rapid X do not count). They are brawlers, to be fair and I suppose technically a web counts as an application mod maybe. Turrets lacking mods can be offset by good piloting, too.

I have zero missile hulls without some manner of application mod/rig which are not using small missiles. I also have zero missile hulls in service not using small missiles. This is not a coincidence.

Careful what you say, you might cause Rise to nerf target painters.

Thank you, akfalt. Actually I meant my Confessor which kills ships just fine without application mods or heat sinks, so my lasers hit just fine and even in a ship like a Nightmare you just need to position yourself in a way that lowers your transversal and even the smallest ships go boom.