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Aegis WH feedback

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Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#161 - 2015-07-18 08:51:51 UTC
unimatrix0030 wrote:
It makes it less likely for people the find each other wich in a multiplayer environment is bad.
And i think most w-space alliances usualy look at it this way:
Is there pew in wh's to be found after at least 1 hours or more of scanning?
Yes->go do pew
No-> any low or null there with pew?
->yes go pew
->no start at the top or log of

The less holes also makes it harder for the very few nullbears that do try wh's for to come in.
It makes it less likely for wh-space alliances to go and mess with null.
So were is the good side again?
The opportunity cost to get pew has just gotton bigger.
And all that because some null alliance was not able to adapt.


Because ganking a single ship in w-space and then rolling within 5 minutes before the enemy can form up is superior to nullsec, where it is more likely that the enemy ship you're ganking has a cyno. OBVIOUSLY.

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!
Cosmic Scanner
Overload This
#162 - 2015-07-18 14:28:09 UTC
I logged on yesterday for the first time in months, and did a load of scanning. Never found so little null secs. If i understand it correctly one of the reasons null wh's have been nerfed is because null sec entities used them much more for high sec logistics / access since the jump changes, and perhaps wh space did have a little too much access to null (was that actually a bad thing? null is meant to be the most dangerous space after all...).

If that's the case, it would probably have made more sense to reduce the number of high sec wormholes a bit or a little of both imo rather than what seems to be a big nerf to both wh space and null sec.

Cosmic Scanner / muu lufragga
Aladar Dangerface
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2015-07-18 14:38:19 UTC
Cosmic Scanner wrote:
I logged on yesterday for the first time in months, and did a load of scanning. Never found so little null secs. If i understand it correctly one of the reasons null wh's have been nerfed is because null sec entities used them much more for high sec logistics / access since the jump changes, and perhaps wh space did have a little too much access to null (was that actually a bad thing? null is meant to be the most dangerous space after all...).

If that's the case, it would probably have made more sense to reduce the number of high sec wormholes a bit or a little of both imo rather than what seems to be a big nerf to both wh space and null sec.

It was basically because pl were using whs to jump across to different areas of null sec for kills, thus avoiding the restrictions made with the phoebe jump changes, and some other null secers were mad about it. While I don't mind what pl were doing (emergent game play anyone?), I do hope that it will stop folks in whs just jumping straight into null to find fights and keep them in trier chains.

I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.
CivilWars
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#164 - 2015-07-18 15:33:14 UTC
unimatrix0030 wrote:
CivilWars wrote:

I will say it is good for w-space because it will encourage/force people to actually fight IN w-space. If there aren't enough people willing to actually fight IN w-space then they leave or quit. If you live in w-space, and someone who would never fight you anyway leaves then how exactly is it bad for you?

If you get most/all of your PVP in null then log off in a J system that doesn't make you a wormholer FYI.

It makes it less likely for people the find each other wich in a multiplayer environment is bad.
And i think most w-space alliances usualy look at it this way:
Is there pew in wh's to be found after at least 1 hours or more of scanning?
Yes->go do pew
No-> any low or null there with pew?
->yes go pew
->no start at the top or log of

The less holes also makes it harder for the very few nullbears that do try wh's for to come in.
It makes it less likely for wh-space alliances to go and mess with null.
So were is the good side again?
The opportunity cost to get pew has just gotton bigger.
And all that because some null alliance was not able to adapt.

This is the WH section. We should be concerned about how these changes negatively affect people who colonize w-space, not 00 players. How does closing 00 holes make it less likely for people to find each other? It is so rare to go WH > null > WH that I would almost call it non-existent. Yes, I know it does happen, but not near enough that this change will impact the number of fights WH inhabitants get against each other by using a chain like this. On the other hand if that corp that typically scans a chain and takes the first decent null exit they find to go gank ratting carriers is now forced to stay in chain aren't your odds of finding them increased, and not decreased?

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Cosmic Scanner
Overload This
#165 - 2015-07-18 15:55:16 UTC
CivilWars wrote:
It is so rare to go WH > null > WH that I would almost call it non-existent.
From my time in noho, more than often we found fights through those very holes because quite a lot of null secs had connections to C5 / C6 space. Less null sec wormholes means less wormholes in general (and variety of wormholes), meaning less opportunity and so directly nerfs content for wormhole space.

Cosmic Scanner / muu lufragga
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#166 - 2015-07-19 11:46:15 UTC
In true anecdotal manner, it's getting a LOT harder to get a decent chain out of our home, which has a null static.

Never used to have to go that far afield to find another null hole out somewhere useful, now it's a case of rolling like a fiend to get something usable.
GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#167 - 2015-07-19 12:14:04 UTC
afkalt wrote:
In true anecdotal manner, it's getting a LOT harder to get a decent chain out of our home, which has a null static.

Never used to have to go that far afield to find another null hole out somewhere useful, now it's a case of rolling like a fiend to get something usable.



My Idea of a decent chain is one with active people in it some vitals and instrumentals, possibly also a Hs ,

Any decent nulls where like a bonus.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#168 - 2015-07-19 12:18:42 UTC
You misunderstand, we have a static null.

The only semi-reliable way to get places was to go out there and look for other holes.

I must've bounced through 30-40 systems today and found two holes. Not that they were "bad" sigs, just none.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#169 - 2015-07-19 14:11:24 UTC
Force wormholers to stay in wormholes and find fights against each other?

How many fights can we organise amongst ourselves? Who's up for a 5 vs 5 or 10 vs 10 or X vs X (ship size) tournament, e-honour totes not bringing slaves/snakes/crystals whoops is that neutral in system truly my boosting alt? Hahaha barely noticed.

Great advances make benefit game!

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#170 - 2015-07-19 18:43:58 UTC
lets take bets whether people will try to find WH fights no matter what, or simply leave to do something else.
Ziirn
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#171 - 2015-07-19 21:14:54 UTC
Voicing opinion that the N432 and Z142 nerf is way too hard. You can go scan for hours in null not finding any c5's or I have just been stupidly unlucky a few days in a row.
Give me my whs back! :'(
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#172 - 2015-07-19 21:31:07 UTC
Nerf is defo too hard. Right now we have 9 C5/C6 whs in our chain now and not a single null.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#173 - 2015-07-20 03:38:49 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
Nerf is defo too hard. Right now we have 9 C5/C6 whs in our chain now and not a single null.


Well it's obvious you're meant to go and try fight anyone in those 9 systems, if there is only towers it's probably time to start some evictions!

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#174 - 2015-07-20 18:50:19 UTC
Seeing the reports over a period of time that n432 is nowhere to be found anymore is troubling. Maybe increase the amount of z142 instead ccp? That keeps the nerf for nullsec people but hurts c5 less.
And I have no illusion that lack of content make people search harder. It just makes them play less or move to a place where its easier accessible. Both can hurt wspace over all classes.

~Bringer of happiness

http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
permion
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2015-07-20 21:00:17 UTC  |  Edited by: permion
As someone scanning from null to get back to high sec/thera...

WH's are now rare enough that I'm traveling a bunch more to do things that were previously simple, like restocking ammo or dropping off loot... Essentially crossing about 16 systems to get a useful signature to get back to low/null, and some extra time to go 2 WH's deep on the other holes. That was the worst case, previously I would have found it kind of obnoxious to have traveled 6 or more systems.

IMO this WH rate isn't bad enough to affect the few cases of logistics. But it's bad enough to make it so that no one in null needs to worry about what's coming out of them WHs..

________________

Then again I've only needed to leave NS 3 times since the update. Mostly to drop off loot rather than pick stuff up.

So not statistically significant, but with other complaints it's "yes".

edit: converted a TBH to an IMO

edit 2: Essentially logistics holes from null to elsewhere used to be common enough that I would say "F that I'm not traveling that many jumps to get to Thera (and find a new logistic chain/hole)", to "Meh looks like I'm traveling that many jumps to Thera (maybe even maybe I should just log out and see if thera connects tomorrow)."
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#176 - 2015-07-21 10:06:48 UTC
permion wrote:
As someone scanning from null to get back to high sec/thera...

WH's are now rare enough that I'm traveling a bunch more to do things that were previously simple, like restocking ammo or dropping off loot... Essentially crossing about 16 systems to get a useful signature to get back to low/null, and some extra time to go 2 WH's deep on the other holes. That was the worst case, previously I would have found it kind of obnoxious to have traveled 6 or more systems.

IMO this WH rate isn't bad enough to affect the few cases of logistics. But it's bad enough to make it so that no one in null needs to worry about what's coming out of them WHs..

________________

Then again I've only needed to leave NS 3 times since the update. Mostly to drop off loot rather than pick stuff up.

So not statistically significant, but with other complaints it's "yes".

edit: converted a TBH to an IMO

edit 2: Essentially logistics holes from null to elsewhere used to be common enough that I would say "F that I'm not traveling that many jumps to get to Thera (and find a new logistic chain/hole)", to "Meh looks like I'm traveling that many jumps to Thera (maybe even maybe I should just log out and see if thera connects tomorrow)."



This is pretty much in line with my experiences over the weekend. Perhaps it is simply RNG being RNG coupled with being aware of a change causing mild prejudice.

End of the world? Not really. Pain in the arse...yup. It's significantly more isolating for the static null dwellers.
GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#177 - 2015-07-21 10:34:55 UTC  |  Edited by: GizzyBoy
calaretu wrote:
Seeing the reports over a period of time that n432 is nowhere to be found anymore is troubling. Maybe increase the amount of z142 instead ccp? That keeps the nerf for nullsec people but hurts c5 less.
And I have no illusion that lack of content make people search harder. It just makes them play less or move to a place where its easier accessible. Both can hurt wspace over all classes.



Found 2 n432's one was eol, the other one lead to an empty wh with everything eol but did have an out going null.

so yes they still are there, needs more data or more people to actually scan chains.

OK so in 1/2 hour found 4 x c5's in one half of a region


Scanned about 20 systems tonight.

2 null - c5's
1 c2/3 to null (was eol)
2 c5 > null's

But because randomness we need more data tbh.
not certain if null > wh / kspace is based on x holes per region or if its spread over all null systems etc.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#178 - 2015-07-21 11:06:06 UTC
maybe Daimian Mercer can give us more data, in the mean time tripwire should have a good sample size for a statistic meaningful conclusion.
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#179 - 2015-07-21 13:40:52 UTC
GizzyBoy wrote:


Found 2 n432's one was eol, the other one lead to an empty wh with everything eol but did have an out going null.

so yes they still are there, needs more data or more people to actually scan chains.


There's another factor on incoming holes into w-space given the 16hour spawn time. They'll tend to be much more scarce in a window some time after the quietest times in null, as there will be fewer people scanning during this time.
Mineral Ore
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#180 - 2015-07-21 14:46:44 UTC
Necharo Rackham wrote:
GizzyBoy wrote:


Found 2 n432's one was eol, the other one lead to an empty wh with everything eol but did have an out going null.

so yes they still are there, needs more data or more people to actually scan chains.


There's another factor on incoming holes into w-space given the 16hour spawn time. They'll tend to be much more scarce in a window some time after the quietest times in null, as there will be fewer people scanning during this time.


So basically, latenight nullbears are safer than ever! Great removal of content for Wh dwellers.